Alcoholics Anonymous AA - Alcoholics Anonymous captivity,confinement, imprisonment, incarceration, limitation, servitude, slavery Internet, Internet

When I was going to AA meetings I didn't really do any analysis at all.  There was much that I just ignored.  Essentially what I took was that there were a bunch of people that drank too much too and they were having problems in their lives.  Because I could relate to that, I talked to them and discussed what I could do to get off booze.

As far as all the religious and spiritual stuff, I basically didn't pay much attention to it.  The meetings were a place to go instead of drinking, I was around people who didn't gasp in horror when I told them about some of the things I did, they were supportive and best of all I quit drinking. I don't know why it worked for me but it did.

I ABSOLUTELY do not tell anyone that AA is the only way to quit drinking, I know several people who have quit using other methods.  Doesn't matter to me, we have all quit.  A disease? I doubt it but again, I didn't care what they called it.  If that helps some people quit drinking, more power to them.

I went for about 7 years, enjoyed the people, took what was helpful to me, ignored what was not helpful, did not judge other peoples reasoning or motives and quit drinking.  I know they would like me to keep going but I have not had ANY alcohol or anything else for over 30 years and am having a very happy and peaceful life.

How did it work?  I don't know and don't care.  Others should do what works for them.  It doesn't seem helpful to rant about something you can easily avoid and don't like, but works for other people who are having success with it.  It doesn't matter why.

Don't like it?  Don't go.  That's what I do with religion.  I don't like it so I don't go, but so what, my very best friend and many of my relatives are very religious people and we get along great.

I really don't know what the OPs problem really is, but he sure hasn't achieved serenity doing whatever he's doing.  I think he needs to try something else :-)

I will not even start picking this ridiculous post apart.

Here is just an example: Yes beer and Marijuana have actually had a bigger positive impact on our society than a negative one.

Hilarious, and it goes downhill from here.

My response is:  "Whatever"

Ok, your last post was much better than the others. Not that it is important, but I was referring to you mistaking "cannibal" for "hypocrite" in your first post. Also, communism is a (crappy) economic system, it has nothing to do with cults. But again, this really does not matter.

As far as the disease model goes, it is just that: a model. Most AAers do take responsibility, in the sense that they try as hard as they can to refrain from drinking, instead of drinking all the time and saying "it's my disease!". When AA was first started, excessive drinking was seen as a moral issue, and they (rightly) tried to move away from that. The Bible does indeed exhort us not to drink to excess, unless you are poor (Proverbs 31:6-7). On a related note, read Romans, chapter 14. The message of it is, if you disagree with someone, don't always make a big deal of it. Granted, Paul was talking to the Church, but I think the message still applies.

I myself went to rehab. This was in the 80s, when the "War on Drugs" was going on, and just about anything done in the name of that war was considered acceptable. It was an amazingly abusive place. The members of the staff were all AA fanatics, and had no real training except for their dogma. They would say crap like, "it has nothing to do with willpower! If you had explosive diarrhea, would you be able to stop with willpower?" My answer would always be, "no, but I don't think I could stop it by making a moral inventory either." The worst thing about it was their anti-intellectualism. As someone who values correct thinking, that really bugged me. To be honest, the real reason I was there was not drugs; I had just started smoking pot six months prior, though it was to excess. The real reason is that I was an a-hole to my parents. If I had been a bit more political, I wouldn't have been shipped to rehab. 

One thing to note is that AAers are much more rational today than back in the 80s, trust me. Depending on your issues, you might want to try something like Rational Recovery, which takes a more cognitive approach to addiction. Also cognitive therapy works well.

I actually see AA as more of a religion than a "cult". They have liturgy (the bit everyone reads aloud before the meeting), and scripture (The Big Book; try contradicting any word of it and note the reaction). Instead of talking about their "sinful nature," they talk about their "disease," but the two words really mean the same thing. AA is also like a social club, similar to an Elks Lodge or whatever. But hey, there is nothing wrong with that. 

BTW, I take it you are a Christian? Are there *any* churches you like? Most of them would not define me as a "Christian"; I am not a Trinitarian (the VAST majority of the Bible clearly indicates that it is a false view), I do not take the words of Paul (and others besides Jesus) as sacred (pardon me if I place more weight on the words of the Son of God than a man who spent a good deal of his life murdering Christians), etc. I am also pro-choice, I know that evolution is true, and I do not acknowledge that pre-marital sex is prohibited *anywhere* in the Bible. But again due to Romans 14 (yes, written by Paul) I do not tend to bring up these matters around Christians. 

On a side note, to the atheist - how can you consider the group your Higher Power and still follow the steps? I don't know about you, but there is no way I would turn my will and my life over to a bunch of AAers. 

There certainly are many ways you can sober up and get off alcohol without AA.  If you know one that works better for you, then by all means do it and leave the people alone who are doing well with AA.

If you are forced to go there, at least have the courtesy to behave like a civilized human being.

They aren't the ones forcing you be there, in fact I'm sure they'd be happier if you left.

It would like me going to church and spending my whole time there b**ching about religion.  That would be pretty stupid wouldn't it?  The parishioners are happy there and like it and don't need some obnoxious a*s there making a fool of himself.

Yeah I do have mental issues man...LOL, I just don't think I am like all these other people who are convinced that they are what they say they are bro. It's a big act. They say one thing and do another, so it's confusing to me, and I have had way more bad experiences than good one's by growing up in the A.A. rooms. My whole family is in "recovery" from this "disease". 

I believe the cause is that we are sinful bro, not diseased or dirty people. We are all more or less the same, not different. I just can't tolerate the double standards that I see in the rooms. How is my vocabulary off, I don't understand how you can say that? I'm a smart guy, and I am smart enough to see right through all the BS. It has to do with standards bro, I don't claim to be like these other people, I claim to be different, as I was made to be, not like everyone else, or I wouldn't have posted this in the first place...hello! 

I don't go to meetings just to criticize them. Their are allot of people in A.A. who are legitimate, and who have helped me throughout the years, but mostly because they are decent individuals to begin with. I don't believe that drug use is a disease, I believe that it is mostly a choice. We want to say it is a disease to get out of the responsibility to ourselves to admit that it is just a choice. We choose to do it, nobody puts a gun to our heads and forces us to do anything. 

I was forced into rehab, yes at some point because I had nowhere else to go. I was young and stupid, and I got caught up with people who were also young and stupid, but mostly through choice, and also because of circumstance. Everything happens for a reason, and my reason for it was because I had many circumstances that led to it, but I also believe that it was a choice. 

I probably would light up a joint if I had one bro, believe me, I would. I learned to spell from the same way you did bro, by putting my fingers on the keyboard and typing, how else would I spell something? It's just funny how people will attack me just because they find something they believe is wrong with me, and that's ok, I really don't care one single bit. I don't think there is a wrong way to express myself, but there will always be someone to criticize me for something, that's just the way it is. 

If there were churches in my area that weren't corrupt, I most likely would attend those churches, but I don't have any trust in them either. It's the people who are corrupt, and the things they do as opposed the the things they say. They are all straight up hypocrites. I apply everything I write to my own life as well, so don't think I am not accountable to what I am writing. 

I am not saying that everyone is corrupt, but the majority of people are corrupt for sure. They believe whatever they believe, and there is absolutely nothing I can do about that. I am just at the place where the bs I am hearing in the rooms has absolutely ignighted some kind of passion inside me, and I will not stop telling my truth, even if the consequences are the worst imaginable. 

You are probably right, I should just stay away from the meetings if I am having this bad of a feeling after going to them. Basically A.A. is for people who really do not believe in God, as far as I am concerned. They believe that their interpretations are sufficient to help them stop doing something that is hurting them. If they really wanted to stop, and had faith in God, then they wouldn't need the A.A. program, and the false Bible that they worship. All the steps do is give someone an alternative to the things that are already out there. It's just the way humans are, if they don't like something, they take what they want, and create something out of that that works for them.

As far as the A.A. people using churches to have their meetings, it's really simple to figure out. Since most people are sick of the church and of religion, as far a s I am concerned, their attendance is down. So what better way to make up for the lost money due to lack of attendance? They let A.A. rent out a room from them, and that money they get from the rent, lines the pockets of the ministers who are letting them rent out a room. It's really easy to figure out.  

If a meeting is too big to hold in someone's living room, then split the meeting up and keep the A.A. meetings out of the churches. It's not a religion right? So keep the anti-religion out of the churches. If the real church was doing the right thing, there would be no need for A.A. There is definatlely something rotten in Denmark, as far as I am concerned. 

Yes beer and Marijuana have actually had a bigger positive impact on our society than a negative one. I am not going to try to convince you, since you have obviously already been "programmed" to think the way you do. It's just ridiculous how ignorant people are to the truth, and they will blast off with all these half truths, trying to convert non-alcoholics into their cult. I will repeat my self just for the sake of saying that I don't really even drink alcohol, so why would I stay home and get drunk? That's as ridiculous as telling someone to kill themselves, which is probably the next thing you will tell me to do, LOL. 

I don't care if you think I am a fool, I have a brain and I will use it as long as I am alive. I will not be told what to believe, and I will not be attacked for reasons that only prove that this is a failing cult, and it's only a matter of time before people wake up to the truth. It does not make sense that if I say I am not something, then I must be one. So I say I am not a monkey, does that make me a monkey? I am not a gang-banger, does that make me one too? Right...your logic is just as twisted as all the other program junkies out there bro. I will not give up on telling the truth about this cult, and I will expose them for who they really are. 

I do believe that there are a goof number of people who attend these meetings who have the potential to be a good influence in helping others to stay away from things that are obviously bad for them, minus all the rhetoric and hypocrisy. 

A lot of people over the years have been ordered to go to meetings for a given period of time. You know what they do? They do their time, because they know that sitting in a meeting listening to people saying the same crap over and over again is just about the easiest thing in the world to do, and a hell of a lot better than jail (or locked ward rehab). It ain't the AA members' fault that you messed up and are now ordered to go, so don't disrupt their meeting. Put your a*s in a chair, drink your coffee, and shut up. Heck, I spend more time sitting in boring meetings at work every day than I bet you have to spend in AA meetings.

I would have suggested you parrot some of their crap in the meetings, but you obviously do not have the mental discipline to do that. 

You know, AA people are fond of accusing lots of people of being addicts because the deny being addicts, which I always found funny ("she denies being a witch, so she must be a witch!"). But in your case, I bet there is something to it. 

Again, suck it up like a man. 

AA is a VERY effective method for getting off booze.  It has proven to work over many years of experience.  In the late 70's I went to lots of meetings for about 7 years.  I was not able to quit any other way and it worked for me.  The last drink I had was in 1979.

It certainly does not work for everyone and there is no claim that it does.  If it doesn't work for you, for whatever reason, I'd suggest you don't go to meetings at all and leave it to the people who are having success with it.

I am an atheist and was welcomed with open arms, no discrimination whatsoever.  They talk about a 'higher power' and you are free to interpret that any way you like.  I chose to feel that the group of understanding people who were trying to help me certainly constituted a power to help me get off booze.

The reason they hold so many meetings in churches is because many churches are willing to let them use a space in the church for meetings without charging any money.  Plus, most of the meetings I went to were too big to hold in someone's living room. 

Then you made this amazing statement: It's like boys scouts of America for adults, only the goal is abstaining from the very things that made this country what it is you Communist!

Of course our goal is abstaining from alcohol, are you really saying that booze is what made this country what it is? That's pretty hilarious.

It would be an exercise in futility to refute your silly statements but if you find it so repugnant, I would strongly recommend you stay home and get drunk.  Just, PLEASE, don't get in a car drunk and kill my family.

I expect there is big story behind this absurd rhetoric that we don't know. Probably court ordered attendance would be my guess.  If you don't know how to be helpful and don't want to be there you have some options. 1. Refuse to go and take whatever consequences that entails. 2. Participate and try to take what you can from the meetings. 3. Just sit there and keep your mouth shut or 4. Do just what you're apparently doing which is to make a fool of yourself, believe me, the people can see right through you. You're choice.

Good luck and I hope you get the help you need, wherever and whatever that is.

Where did you learn to spell and get your grammar structure from?? Jees - try learning this things before you even post a idiot report.  LOL jees.  Don't like AA - LEAVE!

...not to mention a terrible vocabulary. He likes to go to AA meetings just to criticize them? I doubt it, my guess he is a druggie himself and was forced into rehab; note how the title of his complaint says "captivity,confinement, imprisonment, incarceration...". Now don't get me wrong, AA-based rehabs are pretty shady. But dude, just can't move past it and get on with your life. Light up a joint or whatever. 

It's unsound doctrine, that only appeals to the itching ears of those who want to believe in it, LOL...

I don't have an addiction to Alcohol bro, LOL...and it's been proven that people who want to get sober can do it just as successfully without A.A. and their heresies. Maybe you should come over to the area I live in, and see how almost every church in this area has A.A. meetings in them man. Original A.A. was anonymous, and not tied to the church, in fact it was mostly ran out of people's homes, which was a much better way to run it than by having it in churches. Only a sophisticated person would understand what I mean by cannibalistic, meaning they eat their own, they look down on people who drink, and turn on the newcomers. I think it's just that they are straight haters, and if they can't beat their own addiction, it's easier to justify and defend something they do, rather than accept others for who they are.  Don't assume that you know that I am wrong, when by making your assumptions, you automatically show yourself to be ignorant bro. Even if the courts were to order me to attend, I would go, I just would continue to be myself, and tell the truth regardless of the consequence. I cannot be programmed, LOL. I am a free man and I choose to attend, because I get a laugh out of what some of these idiots say. They are so full of themselves, it's ridiculous. I wish half of them would just go drink. It's a religion, whether you believe it or not, and it's a cult whether you believe it or not. It's not just a society, its a club as well. It's like boys scouts of America for adults, only the goal is abstaining from the very things that made this country what it is you Communist! They got the court system involved, and we all know how well that works. They got the pharmaceutics companies involved, they got the Psychologists involved, it's actually big money. So basically even though it's a man made religion and institution, it brings in money and profit for the government and for all the rehabs out there. It's absolutely disgusting how easily people are manipulated by a cult. The only monkey's on my back are the idiots I have to listen to in these meetings. What can they say if I tell the truth? Nothing at all, except that I am in denial or that I need to hit bottom, but they don't know that I hardly even drink, so why would I want to go and do a stupid thing like that? And what kind of advice is that to give someone in the first place? I'll tell you, horrible advice, that's what! The fact is that all I have to do is say that I am an alcoholic, and I'm in, what kind of BS is that? So if that's the case and I do that, how many other people are not really alcoholics and say they are? I just do it for giggles. I have some friends who are sober, and they are legitimate about their struggle, but the people I am talking about are all of the other fakers in the program, hiding out, and just talking out of the side of their necks. When I speak, I tend to be really honest, in fact, so honest that it shakes up the old timers who have been sitting in A.A. for years just parroting their own belief systems.  I'm glad that they believe themselves, but they aren't fooling anyone else. What kind of friend would i be if I just sat there and let them convince others of their half truths? I'm there for a reason. I know the A.A. program like the back of my hand. I believe it is very controversial, and it works if you really want it. the problem is that they think that they can spread their poisonous message anywhere they want. I won't take their BS. I'm like a cobra snake...I'll strike when they least expect me to. And when I strike, it's not a warning, it's a death blow meant to protect those who are vulnerable to the rhetoric, and the hypocrisy. A.A. has to either adjust to the society around them, or they will wither away and die, just like any other organization that refuses to adjust to society. There are closed A.A. meetings where they don't "allow" drug talk, but it's absolutely ridiculous since alcohol is a drug....hello!!!! Basically the way they are running A.A. and other twelve step groups will not last the way it is, if I can have anything to do with it. Desuetude...look it up, and wake up America to the most destructive cult on Planet Earth!!!

The what is the reason you are in AA to begin with?? AA is in no way related to any religion, church, cult, sect etc etc (get the picture?).  I agree with Ken - you are either court ordered to attend or in rehab for something.  If not then don't go!

People in AA are there for a reason - to get help with their addiction and get support with those who also suffer from some form of addiction.

maybe more than once.

Have you got a better method of beating your addiction to alcohol?

What church "just adopts this garbage" and "allows them to dominate our society?"

"They are cannibalistic, meaning they say one thing and do another."

When did "cannibalistic" take on this meaning?

"I will continue however to attend their meetings, and I will continue to speak up for the truth, as I see it, which I believe there are allot of people who feel the same way as I do."  

Feeling as you do, it's pretty obvious you've been ORDERED to attend.  Doesn't seem like you're too interested in getting the monkey off your back, however.

"Liars, fakes, frauds, hypocrites, and cannibals , LOL, it's just really sad"

What do they say when you relate your feelings to them during meetings?

"I am not even an Alcoholic"

I call B.S. on this one, if you're NOT an alcoholic, what are you doing there?

"Maybe they don't drink or do drugs anymore"

I wasn't even aware AA was dealing with drug users...when did this start?

Keep the current attitude and you'll be attending a lot more court ordered sessions.