Rebecca Sparks Stephanie Wallo - Debbie Phillips - Melissa Amos, And Renee Wise And Ryan Green 2006 Harley Davidson Softtail Fatboy Custom $7640 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

The Wonderful Wizard of Roz!  The Yellow Brick Road winds and climbs through the Land of Roz!  With so many sharp turns, its easy to lose track of the Wizards mighty accomplishments.  Heres a SHORT LIST of the Great and Powerful Wizard of Rozs many conquests!  I hope you have as much fun reading them as I.  When you have time, go to each linked ROR to read the FULL MEASURE of the man behind the curtain!  LMAO!  (Psssst.  Run, Toto, Run!)

The Wonderful Litterbug:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/fast-food-restaurants/mcdonalds/mcdonalds-general-complaint-i-52a25.htm

so I got a couple of bites before tossing the rest again out the window. I hope it doesn't kill any wild animals that find it, although they are probably smarter then me and will smell it and walk away.

When called out for his illegal littering, on a busy road, The Great and Powerful Roz rationalized that he really didnt litter because..wait for it.

Normally "food" would be considered organic and not actually be littering...

Yup!  There you have it!  This is why hes the Great and Powerful  Roz!  Never wrong, always right, always has to have the last word.  The rest of us poor schleps have to live within the laws of our society but not the Great and Powerful Roz!!!

Only in the Land of Roz, is littering not littering, is rambling with 30 page rebuttals and name calling considered debating and having the last post means a win.  LMAO!

The Wonderful Liar (AKA The Cowardly Lyin):

http://www.ripoffreport.com/fast-food-restaurants/mcdonalds/mcdonalds-in-vineland-nj-mcdo-a22ba.htm

but when I got it the burger was not at all like the picture or as described and it was cold and tasted like old socks and butt wrapped in a stale bun. I didn't want to complain because I figured they would just spit on the burger so I threw it in the garbage.

In the garbage Roz? In your ROR (see above wonderful litterbug) you stated you tossed it out the window while you were driving home on a busy street.  According to YOUR McDonalds ROR you didnt even open your burgers until you were driving home!  In this rebuttal you give the impression you were an eat in customer who tossed it in the garbage. If this rebuttal by you is the truth (making your ROR a LIE) me thinks you behaved more like the Cowardly Lyin  LMAO!

There you have it folks.  The Wizard of Roz excels at everything, including LYING! 

The Wonderful Author:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/banks/wachovia-bank/wachovia-bank-excessive-overd-844c8.htm

I used to teach at a school and wrote a textbook. I have written for a few publications and a home study course but I have not chosen writing as a profession.

Gosh. You wrote a textbook and yet seemingly know nothing about copyright law! 

The Wonderful Best Buy Associate (aka Best Buy Defender):

http://www.ripoffreport.com/appliances/best-buy/best-buy-best-buy-warranty-fr-95382.htm

Because in my 6 years associated with BesyBuy..

nor do they want to rip anyone off with intent...I feel they are very ethical and may be why they are surviving while places like Circuit City bite the dust...

I guess during your 6 years, you were not aware of the legal troubles Best Buy has had with some States Attorney General; illegally using software (copyright infringement by Geek Squad) and some unsavory business practices (duplicate Best Buy website with alternative pricing higher than what was on the public Best Buy website.)  When customers complained that the in-store price was higher than advertised on the public website, the associate would go online (actually an IN-HOUSE intranet site) to a different website to show the customer that he or she was mistaken!  Real ethical stuff!!!

Yes..I have been associated with this company for six years...including being a district trainer..so i know how it works...

Really?  Does this mean you were party to the copyright infringers?  Did you train Geek Squaders how to use software that Best Buy was using illegally?  Did you help set-up the TWO websites that Best Buy had, or just the in house one that associates showed customers with a HIGHER item price than the public Best Buy website?

I have worked with BestBuys across the nation..and there are different cultures in different locations regardless of SOP.

The Wonderful ROR Editor:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/doctors/black-hawk-plastic-s/black-hawk-plastic-surgery-dr-abe38.htm

You really have no reason to make this person feel even worse, unless you are getting some kind of satisfaction from it? Or does it just make you feel important or better as a person to belittle victims?, Not very nice now, save that for the bank posts.

Thats our mighty Roz laying into someone who made a rebuttal.  Notice the Wizard of Hypocrisy?  Of course, he doesnt mention how HE treats ROR posters when they complain about Best Buy!  No not at all!

The Wonderful Subway Hidden Tax Finder (AKA thats MY 49 cents!):

http://www.ripoffreport.com/fast-food-restaurants/subway/subway-is-a-5-dollar-foot-lon-9ab86.htm

I was duped. I though it was going to be like Baywatch..but I traverse the streets dodging used condoms and drug bags, homeless beggars abound..I think they charge a fee to enter the 7/11..and instead of fresh ocean air breezes..I get to inhale pollution..feces, and urine smells. The pollution is so bad..

And so it goes!  This was heavy intellectual stuff that the entire world (those of us who are not blessed to live in the Land of Roz) had to know!  As it was, the Great and Powerful Roz actually posted a retractionerwell.sorta.

I would like to submit a "semi" retraction...

A semi retraction?  Is that anything like oops or I was mistaken?  Naw, couldnt be!  This is the Great and Powerful Roz!

The Wonderful Travel Agent (AKA Whats a branded credit card?):

http://www.ripoffreport.com/credit-card-processing-ach-companies/u-s-bank-national-as/u-s-bank-national-association-4b2e2.htm

False advertising comes to mind, which is against the law. If I were in your shoes I would start with a call or letter to the FTC if the bank continues to refuse accountability.

Rozzy is correct about a possible false advertising issue.  Except that any false advertising was made by Aeromexico, not the bank that administers the card.  We all know what happens whenever the Wizard of Roz detects the word bank in a report!

The Wonderful ROR Hijacker:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/banks/us-bank-us-bancorp/us-bank-us-bancorp-rip-off-f3dda.htm

Page after page of Rozzy wasting bandwidth.  A funny read if you have a lot of free time on your hands.  A simple ROR turns into The Wizard of Roz Show as Rozzy hijacks this posting to troll for fights; showing his true colors (and they arent emerald green) once again.  This one is so long it would probably smoke your printer if you attempt to print it! LMAO!

If that wasnt enough heres another example of The Great and Powerful Roz (AKA Chaseboy) hijacking a post!  Troll, troll, troll.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/banks/chase-wamu/chase-wamu-wamu-chase-bank-f225b.htm

The Wonderful Auto-restorer and PayPal/Ebay Defender:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/motorcycles/rebecca-sparks/rebecca-sparks-stephanie-wallo-e9de4.htm

Since this is ONE of my businesses, restoring older cars and selling them via online auction nation and WORLD wide,

Dang!  With all these businesses and being an employee of a company that installs radios (see The Wonderful Radio Installer below) Im surprised Rozzy has time to write these mega-page rebuttals.  Then again, the Great and Powerful Roz can (and does) do everything!

The Wonderful DC Engineering; 

http://www.ripoffreport.com/utility-companies/txu-oncar-energy/txu-oncar-energy-txu-my-electr-84c86.htm

Although I no longer reside in NYS, and am no longer a licensed electrician for home/industrial in NYS, I was a local 3 union electrician, as was my uncle, and Grandfather. I now specialize in DC engineering.

I guess this would be sorting out the red, black, and green wires in those restored autos!

The Wonderful Radio Installer (AKA Sirius Defender):

http://www.ripoffreport.com/satellite-companies/sirius-xm-radio/sirius-xm-radio-xm-radio-what-ca79d.htm

I am not actually a direct employee of Sirius XM..but I work for a company that sells and installs a lot of them.

Gosh! Is there anything you dont do or havent done?  Oh, I forget-The Great and Powerful Roz!  This must be more of that DC Engineering thing!  Lets see, author, teacher, engineer, auto-restorer, Best Buy Trainer.  Im overwhelmed-NOT.  Its getting harder to believe any of this crap!  LMAO!

The Wonderful Electrical Engineer (and Best Buy Defender):

http://www.ripoffreport.com/miscellaneous-electronics/best-buy/best-buy-warranty-lies-flint-d8fc7.htm

Number two, I am an electrical engineer, and white on the circuit board is a sign of water damage, and green buildup can be mold, or possibly corrosion build up, and this kind of damage is built up over time.

Wow!  From Best Buy associate and trainer to electrical engineer!  Whoooeeeh.  BTW O Great and Powerful Roz, the Best Buy customer stated that the stuff was on the OUTSIDE of the surround sound when Best Buy gave the item back.  No where did the customers ROR state anything about white on a circuit board.  It was white stuff on the OUTSIDE, as well as a water mark, and green stuff on the power cord!!!  But hey, you were too busy defending Best Buy and blaming the customer to even READ the ROR correctly.

This is not the way best buy became such a success.

Of course not.  Neither was the double website caper or the illegal use of diagnostic and utility software!  Yeah, Best Buy is a stand up company.  Go do a search for some lawsuits against Best Buy and read up on their past antics.

The Wonderful Ripoff Report Defender:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/banks/us-bank-us-bancorp/us-bank-us-bancorp-rip-off-f3dda.htm

they most likely will end up here, so it is important that information is accurate and all sides of the argument are offered so the site doesn't come off as a joke or biased, which due to this redundant banter, it may to some.

Now youre the self-appointed defender of ROR!  The reality is that your redundant hypocrisy coupled with your picking for fights POLUTES ROR!  Anyone reading your incessant novellas quickly realizes that your purpose is to provoke conflict under the guise of attempting to debate.  There is no debating with you-you act as a child.  

As someone else has told you, its OK if you wish to be a hypocrite, just dont do so and pretend to be one of the good guys-youre not. You troll for a fight and play victim when called out on it. 

Let me know if you need any more reminders of your hypocrisy Roz.

We're off to see the Wizard, The Wonderful Wizard of Roz.
You'll find he is a whiz of a Wiz! If ever a Wiz! there was.
If ever oh ever a Wiz! there was The Wizard of Roz is one because,
Because, because, because, because, because.
Because of the hypocritical things he does.
We're off to see the Wizard. The Wonderful Wizard of Roz.

They do the same thing with cars too. Always a scam when the ad is worded like that and mentions ebay to make it appear legit. The clincher is and I quote "I have a contract with eBay so this deal must go through them."

Never heard of such a thing.. If the deal "had" to go through ebay, it would have been advertised on ebay, and as far as I know, there is no contract in existence that forces any deal to go through ebay.

If someone has a legitimate deal and advertises on Criaglist and other free publications, that is generally for local selling. If someone wants to sell long distance and it is legit, if they are using ebay, the payment will be requested through Paypal.

If someone bites on this ad, most likely a bogus ebay invoice would have been sent requesting a money gram payment be sent. And then kiss that goodbye.

OP, how did you get in touch with this scammer? I have a feeling that it wasn't through eBay. Was it Craigslist or some other free internet ad site? I'd also be willing to bet that eBay wasn't even mentioned until the scammer brought it up to make you feel as if a legitimate company was managing the sale.

How did the person from "eBay" request to be paid? Moneygram? Western Union? It wasn't Paypal, was it?

It's these nonsense responses from trolls like Robert and Flynrider. Unlike them, I can back up what I state with facts. Which AGAIN, I will do here in response...

First Robert...

"Only in your world do you ever make anyone look the fool. "

Nope, I state facts to back up my statements, which is used to prove you wrong. Hence, you look like a fool.

"Only in your world do you live in Debunk City!"

"LMAO!

As to copyright law; in all your novella postings you forgot to mention one small tiny FACT.  Wait for it..... Wait for it....

YOU WERE WRONG!  Yup!  The all powerful ROZ was wrong.  Along with Tarzan's retarded cousin "I am the Flaw,' you were wrong."  Flynrider and I were correct-there is NO FEDERAL LAW that prohibits a consumer from returning an opened DVD."

I would think judging from these replies, that you are the twin brother connected at the hip of "I am the Flaw", because the ignorance level is uncanny.

First off, it seems since you LOST this debate, you have to bring up some other post that is completely unrelated, probably because it was one of the few posts where you were correct, belligerent, and rude, but correct nonetheless.. and since YOU brought up that other post, perhaps you ought to go back and read it. Where you will see not only did I back up my statements with FACT, but I read the actually copyright laws...and what did I post right after???

Wait for it...wait for it....that THERE IS NO FEDERAL LAW that prohibits returning an opened DVD. So since this was one of the few times we ended up agreeing on something, you use that against me? What a d****e.

"Tell us O Great and powerful ROZ, how do you make someone who is correct about an issue look like a fool???"

You can't. IF someone is correct, they are not the fool. However, if someone "THINKS" they are correct and can't back it up or provide any evidence, and base replies and rebuttals on ignorance and biased OPINION, then... they are a FOOL.

"Don't forget to kick Toto on your way out!  LMAO!"

I don't kick animals, or victims, or the handicapped, or war veterans. I leave that to the bully bank defenders..aka, COWARDS.

Now to Flynrider...

" Well, I guess next Ronny will be arguing that his reply wasn't "interminable" since it actually terminated after 40 or so paragraphs (who can keep count).  Thanks for being so predictable."

The only thing predictable, is that I will back up my statements with cold hard FACTS, you will reply with nonsense, and I win AGAIN.
I don't have to argue anything. If it takes 40 paragraphs or 400, I will state the facts to prove my point. If you can not understand it, or do not have the attention span to read a few paragraphs, then you do not belong in a debate with the big boys. Go back to bashing victims of hookers.


  " I found it ironic that he had to pick through the Paypal terms and conditions to point out how the OP in #591079 was wrong.    Isn't that what he complains about in all of those bank threads?  Typical "Paypal defender".

I didn't have to "pick" through anything. The complaint was that paypal did not honor buyer protection guarantee. So I googled "paypal buyer protection guarantee"..and low and behold, second short paragraph at the top of the page (for you it may seem "interminable" for me it was 30 seconds of my time tops), there it was in black and white.

Now surely if you are going to get involved with a complaint and/or debate/rebut etc, you should find out if the complaint is even valid..right?

At least I tried to help the guy and if you go back to that very post, he thanks me..bashes paypal a little more, then admits this is an issue with the merchant.

Now I did not defend paypal on that post, I did NOT tell the OP that he wasn't actually in the protection guarantee that he THINKS he is, and I did not insult or belittle him in any way like you ignoramuses do to others who lodge complaints here.

I offered help, and backed up EVERY SINGLE STATEMENT with FACT, information and evidence. I know you can't understand that, but if you want to debate with the big boys, you had better bring some back up..other wise it's all nonsense, and AGAIN, another bank defender bites the dust...LOSE.

   "Thanks for the laugh Ronny."

I guess you find being proven so blatantly WRONG amusing. I am actually the one laughing. Because the ignorance of these replies by you two were so stupid and useless, it's actually a little amusing.

  Well, I guess next Ronny will be arguing that his reply wasn't "interminable" since it actually terminated after 40 or so paragraphs (who can keep count).  Thanks for being so predictable.

   I found it ironic that he had to pick through the Paypal terms and conditions to point out how the OP in #591079 was wrong.    Isn't that what he complains about in all of those bank threads?  Typical "Paypal defender".

   Thanks for the laugh Ronny.

Only in your world do you ever make anyone look the fool. 

Only in your world do you live in Debunk City!

LMAO!

As to copyright law; in all your novella postings you forgot to mention one small tiny FACT.  Wait for it..... Wait for it....

YOU WERE WRONG!  Yup!  The all powerful ROZ was wrong.  Along with Tarzan's retarded cousin "I am the Flaw,' you were wrong."  Flynrider and I were correct-there is NO FEDERAL LAW that prohibits a consumer from returning an opened DVD.

Tell us O Great and powerful ROZ, how do you make someone who is correct about an issue look like a fool???

Don't forget to kick Toto on your way out!  LMAO!

In my statements in the debate regarding report #591079, I should clarify as well  that I misstated the $25.00 as a deposit, which may imply it was used for a tangible good, and then would be covered under the buyers protection guarantee. The $25.00 is actually an "application fee", and this is why it will not qualify for the protection according to paypals terms clearly and simply stated.

Again if anyone wishes to verify what I posted, simply enter the number 591079 into the search on the top right side of this page, and you can read it for yourself.

You will see that I even state I believe paypal is wrong to close this case, and that I suggest the OP continue to deal with paypal, even though it may be time consuming to get them to reopen the case, or reconsider issuing a refund.

I also did plenty of virtual "legwork" for this consumer, and found out another division of this company states they do not accept paypal any longer, which was stated as evidence to show that perhaps this company is afraid to use paypal since they are shady and may not want to chance the protection causing refunds for their tangible goods, which is some kind of gaming software I believe.

But this is a lesson to be leaned as well, which is part of what I have been stating all along.

Number 1) know who you are dealing with first. Which is why a 2 second google of this company came up with complaints regarding the non refundable application fee.

Number 2) make sure you understand HOW you are paying, and if you are truly protected, never ASSUME ANYTHING, especially with a large purchase such as a vehicle. Granted the OP in the above report may be out $25.00 and he feels paypal should have done more, but if he just did a little tiny bit of research first, he would not have even considered using this company to begin with.

And if a car buyer uses the same diligence even purchasing a vehicle sight unseen from online, it will go a long way to assure the transaction will go smoothly, and the vehicle they wanted will be delivered in a timely manor, and as described by the seller, or be refunded.

And even if in the rare case a buyer wants a refund, true they may be stuck footing the shipping bill. But ANY legitimate seller does NOT want to have the vehicle shipped back, does not want to lose the sale, and most of all, does not want a negative feedback. Hence LEGITIMATE honest sellers will bend over backwards and sideways in most cases, to make sure the description is accurate, nothing is hidden, and the buyer is satisfied. As even ONE bad feedback takes away your 100% positive feedback, and that can easily cost future sales to decrease, no seller wants that if they are legit.

Once again, some people have turned this into a witch hunt and personal bashing, just for explaining FACTS, and correcting incorrect or biased, one sided "advice" and criticism. Not everything in life is one sided, as a matter of fact, more then not, there are at least 2 sides to every story, and when a complaint is lodged against a company, both sides of the story deserve mention.

Lets go through them one at a time...

First Robert from Irvine, Mr. "like clockwork" who just like clockwork, is the BIGGEST trolling provoker of argument and fact twisting then anyone I have encountered here, jumps in

Lets review...

"Isn't it interesting how flynrider didn't even mention our friend from Hollywood.  Yet almost like clockwork Ronny went right for the "attack"."

Care to explain or show any evidence of how I "attacked" anyone first. I simply stated facts based on my experience selling cars on ebay since 2001 without a single bad experience..Flynrider posted right after my post DIRECTLY contradicting  my valid points based on fact and my experience. Of course Robert with his gang mentality, only mentions my attack since the one against me seems to share his views, when CLEARLY I was attacked first by a post right after mine contradicting and obvious to all, but worth pointing out to discredit Roberts nonsense.

 " Which is interesting as they both seem to agree at some basic level.  That you must perform "due dilligence" when buying a car, or anything for that matter.  The main difference is that one person appears to be willing to send a stranger several thousand dollars and hope they get what they thought.  Then if they don't they hope that eBay will agree with them and they can get their money back.  The other prefers to deal "face to face" where they know who they are dealing with.  Yes my friends this is just more proof that he is nothing but a troll."

 There are people out there that will always be suckers, because they do not know how to check out a vehicle before buying it, and do anyhow. They are going to be a victim no matter where they buy, and usually leave themselves no recourse. As I stated, it does not matter WHERE you buy a car, it matters from WHOM you buy a car, as well HOW you pay.

For most people if they want a car, it is best for them to buy locally, for they are generally just looking for a good deal, and want the convenience of being close to where they purchase from their home. If anyone "prefers" to buy that way, I have no problem with it.

Most people who buy a vehicle from an online auction, are doing so because what they are looking for is not available near where they live...duh? And as I posted MILLIONS of transactions have been conducted on ebay safely and satisfactory to both parties.

 You are the troll big time here. I am explaining to people how it can be safe and if they get stuck in a bad deal, OR if they send funds and never receive a car or a refund, it is NOT ebays or paypals fault. The consumer simply did not do their homework and should not make any vehicle purchase unless someone who knows how to buy a car is assisting them.

Even if you purchase a vehicle close to home and inspect it top to bottom, there is always a chance of hidden or undisclosed problems, and if the vehicle is sold "as-is" with no implied warranty, the buyer has very little recourse, if any, under the law

"- True.  But if someone is claiming to be selling a 2008 Corvette, dealing locally does several things.  First it actually can prove that the vehicle actually exists.  Second it gives the person a better opportunity to verify the condition.  Third they know who they are dealing with.  Where if you do it over the internet, you send several thousand dollars to a complete stranger.  Then say there was some "mis-representation".  Who is going to be easier to deal with, someone 20 miles away or 2000 miles away?  Ever tried to sue someone in a foreign country, let alone just a different state?"

Another easy debunk...

First off, there really is no reason to buy a 2008 Corvette online since those are fairly plentiful everywhere. However, perhaps a limited edition model is located too far to go there in person, or a really good deal is across several states. Then you find the car on ebay, check the sellers feedback to make sure they are honest and have a substantial history of ethical selling and fast shipping. Then you look at the pictures, contact the seller if interested or have any additional questions, and if all looks good, you make an agreement on the price and decide who pays shipping and how, or sometimes split the difference. That is one way it is done. With a winner take all type auction, the same basic rules apply. Research, read feedback, and communicate with the seller, that will cut down the chance of it being a scam significantly.

As far as verifying condition, sure it is easier to do that in person, but not always convenient or economically feasible. If the seller is honest and the pictures are clear, what else is there to see in person? It's a car, not a UFO, most people who are into specialty vehicles or collectors, are capable of how to judge general and overall condition by good pictures and asking the right questions, hence MOST transactions done on ebay, are successful. Imagine that? Those that do not know how to judge condition by clear pictures and asking questions, should not be buying a car themselves from any source. If the seller ends up being a fraud, that is where paypal protection will come into play. And judging from their history of siding with BUYERS, will in most cases do what the protection is intended to...protect the BUYER. How do I know this? Because as stated, this is one of my businesses for the past 9 years or so.

You also have a good idea of who you are dealing with by the feedback, yes, that is why there is feedback. So you get a good idea who the seller is as a business person. If the feedback is low, or not 100% positive, you review the negative comments, and if the seller seems the slightest bit shady, you DO NOT purchase from them, how simple is that? If the seller does not have a history of doing many transactions, you also have to observe caution and use common sense. Any deal that seems too good to be true, most likely is, in ANY case.

When you agree to buy the vehicle, you DO NOT send cash or money orders. You do it through a means where the money is held until the seller can inspect the vehicle, and an actual vehicle is delivered. If the seller has a substancial history of delivering actual vehicles, there is no reason to expect that your purchase will be the one where a vehicle is not delivered. And IF a vehicle is not delivered and paid for via paypal, you get a refund. No one to my knowledge has ever paid for a vehicle with paypal, not received a vehicle, and paypal didn't make good.

And THAT is the way millions of people do it these days without a single problem. Is this to say there will never be a problem? No, but we read of a LOT more problems regarding used vehicle purchases on this website from conventional dealers, do we not? Proves my point conclusively.

It is not unheard of for these transactions to even take place overseas, as with the economic shambles this country is currently in, and the exchange rate can often lead to a situation where selling overseas is the best option.

http://pages.motors.ebay.com/buy/purchase-protection/index.html

- Once again perhaps you should actually read the LISTED source. 

I don't understand your comment or why you posted the terms I am familiar with. I simply stated that many successful transactions are done overseas. I have done plenty with no issues, and never had to sue anyone. Not to say dealing overseas is for everyone. But if you know what you are doing it is a viable source for selling anything. Works for me, buyer responsible for taxes/customs etc.

I didn't post that particular info to defend ebays overseas policies, I posted it to further prove the point that I can sell vehicles overseas online, and that it is not always unsafe if you know how to do it. I have bought and sold overseas using paypal many times with no problems. So I can speak from experience here. The overseas buyers currently have often been the best buyers and highest bidders so why not seize the opportunity?? Supply and demand 101. They want, we got, they can afford, win win.

"Since this is ONE of my businesses, restoring older cars and selling them via online auction nation and WORLD wide,"

  "Ahhhh, that explains a lot.  You have a vested interest in people buying vehicles sight unseen."

Yes I do. And that is the REASON I am defending them. Why do you guys defend the banks? But I am NOT technically defending buying a car sight unseen. I am letting people know it is done all the time with no problems, and how to avoid the potential pitfalls, as with ANY vehicle purchase, you must know what you are buying, and make sure you are paying in a way that allows recourse. And make sure the seller is honest by checking feedback scores and comments, and asking the right questions.

Buyers must learn how to spot the red flags, and walk away from a potential scam when purchasing ANYTHING, especially from online. But there are safeguards if people learn how to use them. I have been doing this since 2001 without a hitch, so maybe there is a chance I can offer advice?. Since ebay motors is growing, and purchasing rare and specialty vehicles online is becoming such a huge business, people are GOING to continue to do this more and more regardless of how much you tell people it is stupid or believe such out of personal "opinion". And MOST of the transactions will go smoothly as evident, but for the few that fall into a scam. Happens everyday regardless of WHERE you purchase something.

"  That also explains why you were defending Paypal so vigorously last week after someone reported how well they were "protected" by the infallible Paypal.  See report #591079.  You tried to pee on his leg and tell him it was raining.  He was still out his money and Paypal was still telling him his case was closed."

That is your "opinion" based on what you were reading into it, but the facts do NOT back it up whatsoever. Lets review that report... I will edit it down so it's not so "interminable" for you or anyone to read, but YOU brought it up..

1) OP claims he could not settle a dispute and lost.

2) I posted asking for facts since paypal rarely sides with the merchant (bear in mind this was not a vehicle purchase or escrow or paypal buyer protected transaction, it was over a $25.00 NON REFUNDABLE deposit)

3) Poster states the facts, and I AGREE with the poster, and HELP the poster find as much information as possible regarding the merchant, and post that the merchant is most likely a scammer, AND explain that I agree he should continue to dispute this through paypal since he has a legitimate case.

4) The ONLY thing I stated in defense of paypal, is that their hands may be LEGALLY tied if the consumer made a deposit and it is written anywhere that the deposit is NON REFUNDABLE. That is CERTAINLY not "vigorously" defending paypal, is it?

5) I agree that paypal is not perfect, the technology and way of conducting business has changed so fast and since the internet is now such a common means of shopping. Everyone has to grow with it, since it is here to stay. And there will be some growing pains no doubt.

I think in this particular case this poster should have done more research before making a deposit with this company, since it took me 2 seconds to find a list of complaints against this company for.....drum roll please...not refunding a $25.00 non refundable deposit. 

Note the OP's report is titled and states paypal did not honor it's buyers protection guarantee. When paypal states under the plan and I quote "This program will only be offered for tangible goods transactions of less than $1,000.00 USD with pre-qualified sellers"

So regardless the report is not accurate from the start as the OPs non refundable deposit is NOT a tangible good, hence does not qualify for the plan.

Need anymore convincing? If by simply stating facts is misconstrued as "vigorously defending" I can't help that. I just prefer to back up what I state with FACTS, rather then opinion in most cases.

"  No doubt this will elicit one of your usual interminable replies, but that's not going to change the fact that purchasing a vehicle sight unseeen is a risky proposition.  This site is chock full of reports from people who made that mistake."

Replies seem "interminable" to you because no matter how much I use logic, facts and reason , some of you won't admit when I am right out of pride or something, and continue to futilely debate me.

I FULLY AGREE that buying a vehicle sight unseen is a risky proposition. Which is why I am posting the way to do it properly to best protect yourself and verify who the seller is. If myself and millions of others can do this with no problems, surely there is something to it or why would ebay motors be growing at such a rate?

Of course scams are out there and people need to avoid them, but that is why it is important to read feedback and do some research, pay the safest way, and use good judgment. Any sign of a scam , suspicious "deals" and payment/deposits outside of the normal ways paypal conducts transactions, is a sure sign to run. And buyers must make sure any documents sent regarding payment is actually from paypal and not a phony site disguised too look legitimate. Easy fix, always sign to your paypal account directly, do not use links sent in emails. That goes for ANYTHING.

What this site is also chock full of, is reports of people who got taken by conventional dealerships. Plenty more then those that were ripped off by paypal or left unprotected by paypal, a company that is NOTORIOUS for leaning towards the BUYERS side 99.9% of the time. The sellers in many cases have to use extreme caution as well before making a sale or shipping something out.

There are  2 sides to every story and if paypal does not protect a buyer in the protection plan, there must be a valid reason. Are there any reports here where someone purchased a vehicle under the protection plan and was denied by paypal to get a refund if they were scammed? If so, post the report number so we can judge for ourselves if paypal does not back the buyer or, if it was a case where the buyer was simply unhappy with a policy. Or, perhaps there are NO reports of this occurring here at all?

"Since this is ONE of my businesses, restoring older cars and selling them via online auction nation and WORLD wide,"

  Ahhhh, that explains a lot.  You have a vested interest in people buying vehicles sight unseen.  

  That also explains why you were defending Paypal so vigorously last week after someone reported how well they were "protected" by the infallible Paypal.  See report #591079.  You tried to pee on his leg and tell him it was raining.  He was still out his money and Paypal was still telling him his case was closed.  

  No doubt this will elicit one of your usual interminable replies, but that's not going to change the fact that purchasing a vehicle sight unseeen is a risky proposition.  This site is chock full of reports from people who made that mistake.

 I to was a ebay buyer but being scammed on ebay I have discontinued on Ebay or any other.It is to bad for the sellers as I am sure there is allot of good sellers,but I think Ebay should do a little more to stop these scammers like no outside contacts to sellers but through Ebay mail phone numbers,ON THE LISTINGS.Hopefully Ebay will monitor these communication and detect these scams in a timely manor.Until then no buying.

....Who thinks because something he did back in the 1980's when computers had vacuum tubes in them was copyrighted, that he is a copyright attorney now. LMAO,

And now look again, he is ALSO some kind of expert on Ebay policies, and internet car purchasing.

Look here you Grumpy McScrooge.

You are NOT actually PAYING for a car sight unseen when you purchase through Ebay. You look at the car once it is shipped, have it inspected or whatever you want, to kick the tires whatever. If you don't like it, you ship it back and you get a refund.

Is there a chance you may have to pay for the shipping? Absolutely. But is that any more expensive then flying all over and staying at hotels etc to check out a car. Not always, some of us have better things to do with our time then fly all over the place to look for a specific car.

PLUS the purpose of a feedback score and comments is so you have an idea if a seller is honest or not. Yes, you can actually get an idea of who you are dealing with BEFORE you pay. Is there any wiser way??????

YOU do NOT always know this when you go to a car dealer, or buy off Craigslist or even a car a block from your house with a "4-sale" sign on the window.

You are actually BETTER protected using ebay/paypal then buying a used vehicle any other way you old man with no vision if how things work in THIS century.

Since this is ONE of my businesses, restoring older cars and selling them via online auction nation and WORLD wide, I think I know how this works a little better then you, old fart who has probably been ripped off by car dealers a zillion times, hence the bitterness against a new way of purchasing he knows NOTHING about.

This is one of my businesses and I am an EXPERT at it. If you get into it with me here, I will only make you look like a fool every time. Those that get ripped off buying online, are the SAME ones who get ripped off buying anywhere, and USUALLY leave themselves no recourse.

It is NOT WHERE you buy the car, BUT from WHOM that matters. IF you know what you are doing, you will not be sending a Western Union money-gram for $5,000 to lord know where, that is not how a legitimate online vehicle auction works, Methuselah.

MILLIONS of people now buy and sell this way, without a single issue.  And if you actually read these reports, you will notice a lot more complaints about conventional car dealerships then those who had a protection plan using a LEGITIMATE ebay site.

Get with the times. The internet is not just about forums and a new way to insult everyone worldwide from the comfort or your wheelchair.

Some us us actually make money with it, and save money with it and it was actually NOT a scam every time, imagine that?

Isn't it interesting how flynrider didn't even mention our friend from Hollywood.  Yet almost like clockwork Ronny went right for the "attack".  Which is interesting as they both seem to agree at some basic level.  That you must perform "due dilligence" when buying a car, or anything for that matter.  The main difference is that one person appears to be willing to send a stranger several thousand dollars and hope they get what they thought.  Then if they don't they hope that eBay will agree with them and they can get their money back.  The other prefers to deal "face to face" where they know who they are dealing with.  Yes my friends this is just more proof that he is nothing but a troll.

Even if you purchase a vehicle close to home and inspect it top to bottom, there is always a chance of hidden or undisclosed problems, and if the vehicle is sold "as-is" with no implied warranty, the buyer has very little recourse, if any, under the law

- True.  But if someone is claiming to be selling a 2008 Corvette, dealing locally does several things.  First it actually can prove that the vehicle actually exists.  Second it gives the person a better opportunity to verify the condition.  Third they know who they are dealing with.  Where if you do it over the internet, you send several thousand dollars to a complete stranger.  Then say there was some "mis-representation".  Who is going to be easier to deal with, someone 20 miles away or 2000 miles away?  Ever tried to sue someone in a foreign country, let alone just a different state?

It is not unheard of for these transactions to even take place overseas, as with the economic shambles this country is currently in, and the exchange rate can often lead to a situation where selling overseas is the best option.

http://pages.motors.ebay.com/buy/purchase-protection/index.html

- Once again perhaps you should actually read the LISTED source. 

You, the seller, the vehicle, and the financial institutions on which payment was drawn, and to which payment was made, must have been located in one of the fifty United States or Canada on the listing's end date.

- So for any foreign transaction their protection is basically worthless.

Now of course I am sure that Ronny will post what is going to be some very interesting reading.  I don't want to get into a debate of this.  So, since he likes to have the last word, I will let him in this post.

Once again the great and powerful Ronnie G bases his acute legal acumen on the scribblings of Ebay!!!  (Psssst.  Ignore the man behind the curtain.)

LMAO!

Just like a consumer returning an opened DVD is violating U.S. copyright law-this must be true because EBAY won't allow used DVDs to be sold, eh Ronnie?

LMAO!

Flynrider is correct, anyone who gives money for a vehicle, sight unseen, is a FOOL.

Apparently Flynrider is a self appointed expert on vehicle sales and purchases, so we must listen to him...NOT. He can not grasp the concept or understand the way the internet has opened up the market, and given people the opportunity to find the best deal, or to find a special vehicle, custom, antique, limited edition, classic, or optioned/equipped a certain way that you may not be able to find close to home. This is the 21st century, and the internet has made the world a smaller place. And it IS a safe way to make a purchase, IF you know what you are doing, and use common sense. Research and communication is also key.

Yes, you always have to watch for scams. This post is about a potential SCAM, where the buyer may send funds or a deposit, and never receive anything, not necessarily is this report about purchasing a lemon or a different vehicle then advertised.

Even if you purchase a vehicle close to home and inspect it top to bottom, there is always a chance of hidden or undisclosed problems, and if the vehicle is sold "as-is" with no implied warranty, the buyer has very little recourse, if any, under the law. Either way the buyer should check out the vehicle, and/or have a pro check it whether buying close to home, or via the internet long distance. It is not unheard of for these transactions to even take place overseas, as with the economic shambles this country is currently in, and the exchange rate can often lead to a situation where selling overseas is the best option.

Now ignorance and antiquated reasoning by Flynrider aside, here is some info to help make a safe vehicle purchase online, and other info such as what to avoid... I know the internet can be a safe way to buy and sell cars sight unseen, where the buyers are protected from out and out scams 99% of the time, because I do this all the time and NEVER had a single issue. Buyer and seller happy, excellent feedback left...read on. Bear in mind the first paragraph is quoted from 2006, a lot more successful transactions have been made since then

"Not too many years ago, the thought of going online and buying a car you've never seen --from a seller you've never met was an unfamiliar concept to most people," said Rob Chesney, senior director of eBay Motors. "Since then, two million buyers have successfully bought cars and trucks on eBay Motors. It's a fundamental shift in car purchase behavior, and we're gratified that so many buyers and sellers have made eBay Motors what it is today America's preferred online destination for buying and selling not just vehicles, but parts and accessories, too."



General Buying Tips

 Ebay provides general tips for its customers when purchasing goods, and these tips can be applied to online purchasing outside eBay. Before purchasing an item, make sure the seller is reputable. The major advantage of using an auction website such as eBay is that you can check a seller's feedback and reviews from other buyers who have dealt with them in the past. After paying for an item, stay in contact with the seller. Providing contact information to the seller will allow them to contact you if the shipment of your item will be delayed. If you paid with a credit card and you haven't received an item, contact your credit card company. The majority of credit card companies have some level of purchase protection.


 Auction websites such as eBay are an excellent means of buying through the Internet because your money is protected to some extent. For example, eBay's Buyer Protection Program can help you get your money back if you don't receive an item you paid for or if the item you purchased does not come as it was described online. Ebay also has a buyer protection program for cars that covers you up to $50,000 through the eBay Vehicle Protection Program. Ebay's Business Equipment Protection Program covers you up to $20,000 when purchasing business equipment online.

NOTE: (You are automatically enrolled in the program at no charge when you complete the purchase of an eligible vehicle on the eBay Motors site)

Choose PayPal Verified Sellers


 PayPal suggests using PayPal verified sellers when shopping online for products. You can check PayPal membership status by clicking "Send Money" and then clicking on "Check details of your payment." Next to the buyer's email address you will see his PayPal membership status.

We are seeing an increase in reports of fake eBay Motors transactions that originate from automotive websites other than eBay, such as Craigslist.

Fraudsters are sending online shoppers fake email messages claiming to be from the eBay Trust and Safety Department, the eBay Motors Finance Center, an eBay Escrow Agent, or from the eBay Vehicle Purchase Protection Program. These emails are all fake and often contain links to spoof websites that contain pages that look like authentic eBay Motors web pages, but are not. The fake eBay sites might even ask you for personal information and then send you fake eBay Personalized Payment instructions.

   This site is loaded with reports of people who didn't get the vehicle they thought they were buying.   Paypal is not a substitute for due dilligence.  In vehicle transactions, paypal will not give you your money back until you've done two things.   You must prove to Paypal's satisfaction that the vehicle was misrepresented in the advertisement (smart scam sellers know how to write the ad).  Then you have to return the vehicle to the seller (on your own dime).

  If you can't have a vehicle professionally inspected before purchase, it's a crapshoot.  

It is good that you posted this report to help others avoid the same fate. But the thing is, the report makes it seem as if ebay is not a safe way to make a purchase.

What probably happened. is this scammer sent forged documents pretending to be ebay.

The way ebay actually works to protect consumers from this type of scam, is through paypal, which is essentially ebay, but is the way funds are transferred to protect the buyers.

What is supposed to happen, is paypal holds the money in escrow, and the funds are not released to the seller until a length of time, usually 10 days. If the buyer is satisfied, the funds are released to the seller. If the buyer is not satisfied, the vehicle is shipped back to the seller, and the funds are returned to the buyer.

The way to avoid this ripoff, is to verify that the funds are being legitimately transferred through paypal.

The problem is not so much people sending money to someone they do not know. It is sending money via a phony service.

Many people purchase vehicles through ebay as sometimes just the right ride we want is too far away to physically inspect before purchasing. That is why paypal holds the funds.

It is a shame that some people take advantage of others this way, but until everyone understands that the internet is nothing but an illusion, and any idiot from their mamas basement can make a legitimate looking ad, and post pictures of a beautiful Harley, does not mean it is real.

   As long as there are people willing to send large amounts of cash to people they don't know, this scam will flourish.

   An acquaintance of mine fell for this last year.   I asked him, " Would you hand $5000 to some stranger on the street if he promised to give you a motorcycle in a few days?".  Naturallly, he said only a crazy person would do that.  I had to point out that there was absolutely no difference between that and the Internet scam.  In both cases, untraceable funds are given to a stranger on only the promise of something happening at some future date.   Personally, I think you'd be better off trusting some random guy on the street.  At least you know he is a real person.