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Report: #147444

Complaint Review: Better Business Bureau - Salt Lake City - Salt Lake City Utah

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  • Reported By: Dyer Indiana
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  • Better Business Bureau - Salt Lake City 5673 South Redwood Road #22 Salt Lake City, Utah U.S.A.

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I filed a BBB complaint in December against Manhattan Loft Furniture located in Salt Lake City, Utah. It is my opinion that Manhattan Loft uses deceptive selling practices, will not permit you to speak to a manager when a problem arises, lies about everything, and does not stand behind their product.

After my initial complaint with the BBB and several rebuttals by myself and Manhattan Loft, I received an email from the BBB offering binding arbitration at a cost of about $100. I was not opposed to this, but wanted to ask the BBB if my expectations of Manhattan Loft were too high. I did this in an email and specifically said it was not my official response. I understand they cannot take sides, but I thought if my questions were out of line I would have received an email stating they could not comment.

I waited for a response for several weeks checking both my email and the complaint website. Finally, what appeared on my complaint website was that the case was closed. The reliability report for Manhattan Loft said, among other things, "...and the customer verified that the complaint has been resolved satisfactorily". I was totally in shock.

The complaint website now offered a link for me to respond and it stated it would not be considered a part of the official response. Of course I responded stating that I was uncertain why my case was closed or why the statement, "...and the customer verified that the complaint has been resolved satisfactorily. I also attached the original email requesting their assistance.

On 4/29/05 the BBB posted all of the information I had said was not my official response as, my official response. I was outraged, humiliated, and lost all trust in the BBB. That is how I stumbled on Rip-Off Reports.

With no faith in the BBB, I felt I had no choice but to close my case. The last paragraph of my closing response (5/19/05)contained the following note to the BBB. "To the BBB, you can show this complaint as closed. If you choose to show that ML has had no complaint since December that will be fine. However, this customer is NOT verifying that the complaint was closed satisfactorily".

The case is now closed. The reliability report as well as the automated recording for Manhattan Loft at the BBB both contain the information that the customer verified that the case has been resolved satisfactorily. I repeat, I have NOT! If that is not fraud, I don't know what is!

Don't believe it? I invite you to view my complaint website:

http://69.2.253.251/complaint/view/22008970/c/18b2d5#

Also, be sure to check the reliability report for Manhattan Loft.

ML is not a member of the BBB, but I am certain they made a nice contribution for this one.

If you view my complaint website, I would very much appreciate that you post a rebuttal note here verifying that you saw what I wrote in my rebuttals and viewed the fraudulant statement that I did not authorize on the BBB website. (I hope to somehow have that fraudulant statement removed, but would like others to know that I spoke the truth when I posted this.) Also, tell everyone you know not to waste their time with the BBB. It's a rip-off. No pun intended. I spent 5 months with the BBB for nothing.

I plan to file a complaint with the Attorney General of Utah. If anyone knows of any additional contacts, please pass them along.

One other interesting item. In January I found a website:

http://utah.citysearch.com/

On that website I checked for ML and found they had another complaint similar in nature to mine. I tried to file my own complaint on 1/21/05. When I filed the complaint the site said I would hear whether or not they would post it in 48 hours. On 1/25/05 I sent a follow up email because my complaint had not been posted, nor had it been denied and it was past the 48 hour timeframe. No response. I tried several more times. Nothing. On 6/17/05 I received the following email from Citysearch:

Hello nnyl,

Thank you for submitting a review of Manhattan Loft on Citysearch. In order to assure that reviews are as helpful as possible to the community, we've established content guidelines for all submissions.
Unfortunately, your review violates these guidelines and cannot be posted.

Your participation is important to the Citysearch community. We invite you to return
to http://national.citysearch.com/review/11466044/add?login_message=1 and resubmit your review.

If you have any further questions about reviews, please feel free to contact us at ratings_questions@citysearch.com. We look forward to
posting your revised review.

Sincerely,
Citysearch Ratings Team

Let me say, I checked their guidelines at the time I wrote the complaint and felt I was well within their boundries. Obviously ML had something to do with this too. It's ironic that i did not hear from Citysearch in 48 hours, nor 48 days. I heard from them over 4 months later, and only after my case was closed with the BBB. Do they think I am stupid or what????

The reason I added this bit on Citysearch is to let consumers know they are similar to the BBB in that they collect a fee from the business. Just take a look at the reviews and their dates.

Two positive reviews dated 8/19/02. (Most likely when ML subscribed to Citysearch.) The next positive is 11 days later on 8/30/02.

Then there is nothing for almost 2 years when they received a negative review on 5/10/04. To knock this negative down off the screen they now receive two more positive. One 8 days after the negative and one 10 days after. It's is now over a year from the last review. Would you like to guess who wrote all those positives? My guess is employees, friends and family of ML!

In conclusion, I would like to offer this advise to all consumers. Be extremely cautious if you choose to deal with ML, the BBB, or Citysearch.

Sally
Dyer, Indiana
U.S.A.

STOP! ..before you think about using the Better Business Bureau (BBB)... CLICK HERE to see how other consumers were victimized by the BBB's false or misleading information. Don't be fooled! It has been reported, when there are thousands of complaints and other investigations underway by authorities, the BBB has no choice but to finally give an UNsatisfactory rating to a BBB member business that is paying the BBB big membership fees every year. When a business is reported that is NOT a BBB member, BBB files WILL more likely show an UNsatisfactory rating, then reportedly shake down that company to become a member of the BBB. One positive thing about the BBB is, either way, if a business has an unsatisfactory rating with the BBB, you can be sure, the business is bad. But what about all those BBB member businesses that had complaints filed against them? Consumers never get to hear about them. What about the BBB advertising to the public? Is this a false and misleading perception they are giving about consumer confidence when dealing with a business? Click here to understand more of what consumers and business alike are saying about the BBB. You decide. ..Remember. The BBB membership is not earned, it's paid for!

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 06/24/2005 09:35 PM and is a permanent record located here: https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/better-business-bureau-salt-lake-city/salt-lake-city-utah-84123/better-business-bureau-salt-lake-city-bbb-reliability-reports-are-fraudulant-and-i-have-147444. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year. Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report. READ: Foreign websites steal our content

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
0Author
4Consumer
1Employee/Owner

#5 Author of original report

Facts do not lie

AUTHOR: Sally - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Sunday, August 28, 2005

I am the originator of this complaint.

For anyone who believes the Salt Lake City BBB is on the up and up...think again.

My final paragraph on my complaint against Manhattan Loft was this:

"To the BBB, you can show this complaint as closed. If you choose to show that Manhattan Loft has had no complaint since December that will be fine. However, this customer is NOT verifying that the complaint was closed satisfactorily."

The BBB reliability report for Manhattan Loft is as follows:

Customer Experience

Based on BBB files, this company has a satisfactory record with the Bureau. The Bureau has processed one customer complaint on this company since the Bureau file opened in December 2004. The company addressed the disputed issues of the complaint and the customer verified that the complaint has been resolved satisfactorily. A satisfactory record means a company has been in business for at least 12 months, and properly addressed matters referred by the Bureau. The company does not have an unusual volume of complaints, or any government actions involving its marketplace conduct. The Bureau understands and has no concerns about the company's products, services and type of business.

IF THAT IS NOT A FRAUDULANT REPORT I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS!

Manhattan Loft is not a BBB member so how do you think they got that report? My guess is they made a nice contribution to the BBB. If I were a furniture store, a competitor of Manhattan Loft and a paying member of the BBB in Salt Lake City I would be pissed to know that a non-member got an undeserved satisfactory report. Why would I want to be a member when I can get a satisfactoy report by making a one-time contribution?

Unfortunately, the consumer can only see the reliability report that the BBB writes, they do not have access to the actual complaint which may give a totally different perspective. I for one would like to see the actually complaints so I can make my own decision as to whether to use that business or not.

I still say filing a complaint with the BBB is a total waste of time. And, because of my experience I will intentionally select to use companies that are NOT members of the BBB.

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#4 Consumer Comment

BBBs do lie!!! BBB of Central Florida - company joined the BBB and lo and behold, the rating was suddenly changed to SATISFACTORY. And that's no lie.

AUTHOR: Carl - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, July 29, 2005

BBBs do not necessarily tell the truth about a company's true rating. I know for a fact when I checked with the BBB of Central Florida regarding the rating of a major timeshare company, the rating was UNSATISFACTORY. About the same time, the company joined the BBB and lo and behold, the rating was suddenly changed to SATISFACTORY. And that's no lie.

There are so many unresolved complaints pertaining to this timeshare company. The BBB admitted as much. The lame excuse? The company is large. A large company will just naturally have more complaints against it than a smaller one.

The average consumer, believing in the goodness of the BBB, accepts the rating as truth and can end up being scammed anyway.

The consumer is much better served by checking Rip-Off Report.com

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#3 Author of original report

businesses across the land cannot all be liars about the BBB!

AUTHOR: Better not say it will effect our BBB rating - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, July 29, 2005

To the above poster and liar at the BBB, yes, lies are so easy.. the BBB should know.

I read on this site that the BBB is listed in many phone books across the country under Government Agencies.. now there is a big SO Easy lie! We know this is true in many cities in Arizona, Florida, Texas, New York and in many counties in California, but not in the county we live in.

Yes you can buy ratings. Our business never belonged to the BBB. We had one complaint in 16 years and got a complaint becuase the USPS lost the package. The customer was imposable and made a complaint. The BBB called our business every day, 2 and 3 times a day telling us we need to pay to be a member again or the complaint will give us a an unsatisfactory rating. All we need to do is respond to the complaint. We know what that's all about. Our sister company in another city is a BBB member. They told us, once they gave the most ridiculous response to a complaint and the BBB said nothing and there was no record of the complaint and they still had a satisfactory rating. Then the BBB called them to remind them they did not renew their membership, that if they did not re join, the 2 complaints they had received in the previous year will give them an unsatisfactory rating if they did not pay by a certain date. LIAR and EXTORTIONISTS!

Nothing the BBB ever says is ever admissible in a court of law!

Figures the FTC works with the BBB. The FTC is the biggest US Government Fraud! They take money from the rip-off companies alright but, most of the time they will never pay off those who have been victimized. I not only read about that on this site, but I recently saw it mentioned on a TV News program and also read about it in either the Wall Street Journal or NY Times.

Ever since we found this website, we use it for our business to see who is a rip-off and not to do business with. Its amazing how the BBB gives a satisfactory rating for a business and there are hundreds of complaints on this website. I always make it a point to catch any consumer news story. Our local station recently did a story and had mentioned both the BBB and this website as they do on a regular basis. The BBB cited to the news Reporter there were 6 complaints over the last 2 years, but this website had over 70 complaints in the last 12 months and many the year before. Obviously, more people know about the BBB and this website gets more complaints! This is the case most of the time when we check out a business before shipping.

To state the stories here are completely false just shows what kind of an idiot you are.

I see that this website assists every government agency and the news media. What information you think they are giving to the authorities and the media that is false. Why would they use this website on a regular basis? One business owner we know in a similar business in another state says the Attorney General in their state has suggested Consumers should check with the consumer website www.ripoffreport.com when they get solicited by phone or at their door. I will try and get a copy of that and send it to rip-off report to post with my rebuttal to your ridiculous lies!

Sir, the BBB is a sham and you are a liar and a Fraud!

You just motivated me and reminded me to send the rip-off report a donation. You just reminded me just how important they are doing the job that the BBB will never do. I would imagine they are even being sued more than the BBB. That's because they are more effective that the BBB.

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#2 Consumer Comment

Lies are easy, but the truth is another matter

AUTHOR: Kent - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, July 29, 2005

I can give three quick examples of bad companies that the BBB refused to give bad ratings too until there were lawsuits pending.

Tree house marketing
scrap in a snap
fairbanks capital

The BBB didnt do a thing until the courts steped in and took action. then and only then did they give the companies a bad rating.

take a look at stores on line right now they have a good rating with The BBB how is this
possiable.

I personaly know of two companies in the past listed as having an unsatisfactory rating with the BBB

now there is only one of the two with a bad rating because the other company joined the BBB they now have a satisfactory rating they havnt changed a thing in how they run there company they just pay there monthly dues

its easy to post its all lies but after reading your post i doubt it will change the minds of any readers

however I would be interested in reading anything you could find to support you opinion.
little things like facts or even why the BBB waited to place the fore mentioned companies on an unsatisfactory list

The Basinite

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#1 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Lies Are So Easy

AUTHOR: Russell - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, July 28, 2005

Lots of lies pop up here on this web-site about the BBB. The most popular one seems to be a suggestion that you can buy a "rating." If that's true, why does the BBB kick members out every month? Members of the BBB of Utah that have absolutely no complaints have been kicked out for false advertising caught not by consumers, but by the BBB.



If the assertions of some of these claims are even half true, there would be enough here to a significant lawsuit by businesses with unsatisfactory records, by businesses that get kicked out of a BBB, and even by consumer protection groups such as the Federal Trade Commission and others. Why is it however that the BBB of Utah has never lost such a case? Why is it however that the Federal Trade Commission is a partner and supports the BBB?



Because the stories you read here are completely false.

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