Circuit City, City Advantage Extended Warranty Plan ripoff Program won't follow legal obligations, WELCOME TO PASS THE BUCK CITY! Dallas Internet

A few years back, before Compaq and HP married, we bought a compaq laptop for my husband, bought the CC plan too, which according to the sales rep covered the "laptop bumper to bumper, including the screen" My husband loved his new laptop.

unfortunately, a few weeks later the lcd screen developed lines in it. Compaq said it was a thermal issue and should be covered. CC had the laptop for weeks and did not repair it and when i finally had a return call from the Service center told me that the lines were not covered - said the laptop was dropped and abuse was not covered.

to make a long story short. i finally spoke to a "higher authority" at the CCA advantage plan who told me ,and I am quoting directly here;
"Ma'am we can tell this laptop was dropped by the type and length of lines on the screen."
to which i replied, "you mean that a line will form the same pattern every time it is dropped as opposed to forming a line for other reasons?"
the Rep stated, "Yes Ma'am, we have technicians who study the lines that form on monitors and can determine how they *exactly* occurred without any additional information."

Imagine my surprise, that unlike snowflakes, lines/fractures or cracks in computer lcd screens will always form the same exact pattern every time, and CC can always correctly deduce what caused the line pattern without any input from me..... maybe nasa should hire some of CC's diagnostic technicians...

we cancelled our cc advantage policy and got our money back and then sold the laptop to a kid who used his own monitor and ended up with a decent desktop-ish computer.

Good Luck!

I have a Gateway laptop. It was never dropped or abused in any way. One day I noticed cracks on the case near the hinges. Laptop was under warranty.

I called Gateway and the tech said this was a known problem resulting from faulty hinges and they would repair under warranty, which they did.

My point is cracks in a case are not always caused by neglect. Circuit City did repair a fan. It is a known fact that plastic can be affected by heat. Even if cracks were caused by normal opening and closing - that is the function of a laptop - portability. The lid should be made to withstand the constant movement.

I think if there are no other signs of abuse such as scratches, the lid should be covered under warranty.

As a former telephone representative (the person these irate customers yell at) supporting these warranties, I am honestly surprised to find these complaints here. They are the same complaints I heard 3 years ago before I quit.

First, a little insight for the customer. You are dealing with two separate companies here, Circuit City and the warranty company. CC only sells the warranties ("distributes" would probably be more accurate), the warranting company owns the responsibilities for the warranty once the manufacturers warranty has expired.

Does this mean that CC has nothing to do with these problems? I don't believe so, but more on that momentarily.

The circumstances of this particular case do not surprise me. I had to tell many customers that these cracks weren't covered. In my opinion, these cracks weren't caused by your faulty fan. They happen to a lot of laptops, I have an older Dell sitting right here which has stress cracks above the hinges. Do I believe it's right for a product to fail like this? No. There may be an exclusion of cabinetry in the warranty, but what about "Your Plan does not cover the following:
A.REPLACEMENT NECESSITATED BY LOSS OR DAMAGE RESULTING FROM ANY CAUSE OTHER THAN NORMAL USE AND OPERATION"? I would certainly think that opening the lid would be considered normal use right? Just another point of confusion and contradiction.

Now a comment on John and other employees with smug rebuttals. This is another good example of bad customer service. This forum may be out of the bounds of your normal business setting, but it still has a definite effect on what the customers think. Attitudes like the ones shown here definitely aren't customer winners. Warranties are a SERVICE, so one would think that the company and its employees would find SERVICE to be very important. When your service is poor, there is no real product to hold customer's loyalty.

I concede that there are as many or more bad customers as there are bad employees or companies. When I was a rep I had some customers who tried to work the system, pull one over on me, etc. But to cite that as a reason to snub consumers with legitimate problems(covered or not) or to have a sour attitude towards them is completely illogical and really sad. If you recognize that this is just the "Same Old Song and Dance" then one would think that maybe you would realize by now that it isn't always about dishonest customers. One would think that if it's gone on this long then maybe there are real issues at work...

Are extended warranties a good thing or a scam? They can be a good thing.... or a scam depending who administers them and how. If Consumer Reports says that getting extended warranties on expensive electronics is a good thing, then I agree (note that they probably did not say anything about City Advantage). I wish I'd bought one on the cd/radio for my car I purchased a few months ago. I was offered and declined. A week or two later the face plate fell out of my jacket pocket and the crystal was cracked (yes it was in a case). Now I have a new radio with a totally illegible display. The face costs 130.00, the radio by itself was just over 300.00 (The extra coverage did include accidental damage by the way) Internal parts for computers, especially laptops, cost even more than my example.

What's the problem with this particular warranty arrangement with products from CC? This quote from another complaint thread points to part of it, "I asked several questions: what does this warranty cover? Where would I need to take my notebook if I needed it replaced, etc. I was told 'the warranty covered accidental damages, power surges, etc. and was if I ever needed to use it , I would bring the notebook into the store and they would either fix it or replace it.'" I heard this a few times as a telephone rep. Another issue I have seen both in this forum and as a rep was complaints that customers didn't get a copy of their contract terms even on requesting one. There seems to be a real disconnect between CC and the warranty company. I am sure that some employees just don't care, but I'd like to think that it mostly comes down to a training or communication issue. Anyone selling a service should be well versed in the conditions of that service and thus be able to accurately answer customer questions. Consumers should have a copy of anything they have signed. Concise language in the warranty will make understanding easier for everyone (consumer, sales person, support representative).

Extended warranties can be a good deal, but this one obviously needs some improvement.

dictionary.com defines cabinet as

cabinet
An upright, cupboardlike repository with shelves, drawers, or compartments for the safekeeping or display of objects. Computer Science.
The box that houses the main components of a computer, such as the central processing unit, disk drives, and expansion slots. often
Cabinet
A body of persons appointed by a head of state or a prime minister to head the executive departments of the government and to act as official advisers. Archaic.
A small or private room set aside for a specific activity.

Ok now that we understand what a cabinet is. Damage to cabinetry not being covered in any way should not be that hard to understand as well.

The contract language is reasonably clear. The damage to the cabinetry was caused by the normal use and operation of the item - opening and closing the lid - because the internal failure of the cooling fan allowed the laptop to overheat, weakening the plastic.

The exclusion of cabintery damage is clearly a sub-clause of the "external causes" exclusion, and therefore this damage is not excluded.

If Circuit City will not honor the terms of their warranty, your recourse is to sue them in small claims court, it's quick, cheap, and small claims judges are generally sypathetic to consumers being ripped off by corporations trying to get away with tricks like this unjustified expansion of an exclusionary clause to avoid paying for a damage that is not excluded.

I work at CC and have a few things to say...

Notice all these people who swear 'warranties are evil'? Well, they're the first ones to come back and complain when their product breaks and the manufacturer blows them off. Do us a favor, and if you don't buy warranties, don't give us your crap. Stay out of our store unless you're buying something. And if you're one who thinks CC owes you something because 'You spent a thousand dollars on a laptop', think again. Where do you think profit is made? Certainly not on the crappy celeron laptop you bought that we just lost money on. Spare us the bull.

Just an FYI, stores wouldn't have to be so anal about warranties and repairs if customers were, well, honest. If you drop your laptop and get a crack, guess what? We know it didn't just happen by itsself and we're not fixing it. If your headphone just 'falls off'... Guess what, we're not replacing it.. How many headphones has anyone honestly had that just broke out of nowhere.

And no, circuit city owes you nothing after the specified return policy.. Whining won't get you anywhere, and don't plead ignorant because we're not idiots. You KNOW the policies and you KNOW we'll stand by them. Legit case? Come see me, I'd LOVE to help you! Fraud? Get lost, don't enter my store.

"In the whole world there are like 5 or 6 companies that will stand behind their warranty. The rest all take your money and lie their way out when it comes time to fix anything."

Is this based on your own survey you conducted? Have you purchased a warrenty from every company in the world and used them? Then how would you know this? I have been doing this for a while and I see people use their warranties to replace their TVs all the time. So I know for a fact that they do work, not a theory, a fact. No false numbers or biased points of view.

Why else would I have shelled out 250 dollars for the City Advantage on my TV I just purchased? Do you think Circuit City pays me enough money that I can throw it away on things that don't work? I am wiser than your average consumer because I know what goes on behind the scenes. Don't believe me than don't buy it, what do I care. Just don't knock it if you have no idea what you are talking about.

Were you not paying attention? I just stated we swap out products EVERY DAY! We're not even supposed to but we do it to help the customer. You are actually doing a dis-service to consumers with your post. If the thread starter didnt have CA he would be borked. Tell me were you can purchase a cpu fan for a particular laptop. Each one is different and they cost a ton more then they should. I would also guess the thread starter wouldnt be able to open his laptop and reapply a fan. Its not the easist thing to do. The turnaround time was also very good. Two weeks from the day sent to the day recived is GREAT! Imagine how long it would take a repair store to get the fan for that laptop. Plus the price of their service.

Consumer Reports says to buy service on laptops and big screen TV's. We all know how consumer reports is out to screw consumers!

Get your facts straight before you go posting your opinions. What I just said is based on experience and fact. The stores will replace a damaged laptop. If you are rough with it and crack the case its your fault. There is no way to prove your cracks came from the heat. Sadly enough people are willing to lie to get free stuff so the store needs to cover itself.

There's the problem here. Don't get suckered into the warranty con.

In the whole world there are like 5 or 6 companies that will stand behind their warranty. The rest all take your money and lie their way out when it comes time to fix anything.

Everbody knows this! Well, almost everybody.

When something breaks, you have to fix it yourself. Laptops are hard to get apart. But what other choice do you have? The company won't fix them. They either send you to India to have the minimum wage tech tell you it's a software problem. Or else, they disappear with the laptop and you never see it again.

I'll never buy a warranty. They're all trash. If you don't know that yet, just re-read this man's complaint again. You'll get the idea eventually.

First off I sell computers at Circuit City and I swear by City Advantage on laptops. I have helped with countless swap outs on damaged laptops. Two days ago I sold a $3000+ laptop and it didnt cost the customer a dime because he got a gift card for the price of his old one. I even purchased it on my laptop.

Secondly you are angry at the wrong people. You were called a "liar" because the damage isnt consistant with your claim. If people didnt constantly try to fraud the system this would'nt be an issue.

I think you should be happy you had a fan replaced and your laptop fixed within two weeks. If you didnt have CA it would probably have cost $300+ and no garuntee on the time.
(tell me where you can buy a laptop cpu fan)

We are consumers as well and 90% of the time want to see our customers win, and 90% of the time they do. Circuit City is very good at standing by CA, its how we make money. The cracks on your laptop are not covered under CA, how hard is that to understand?

"and the sales people encourage that...they don't want us to take the time to read, let alon understand what we are signing. THAT is criminal."

Not only is that untrue it is also NOT against the law. We dont work on comission and could honestly care less if you get service. Each time we offer it, we do it to help.

First off I sell computers at Circuit City and I swear by City Advantage on laptops. I have helped with countless swap outs on damaged laptops. Two days ago I sold a $3000+ laptop and it didnt cost the customer a dime because he got a gift card for the price of his old one. I even purchased it on my laptop.

Secondly you are angry at the wrong people. You were called a "liar" because the damage isnt consistant with your claim. If people didnt constantly try to fraud the system this would'nt be an issue.

I think you should be happy you had a fan replaced and your laptop fixed within two weeks. If you didnt have CA it would probably have cost $300+ and no garuntee on the time.
(tell me where you can buy a laptop cpu fan)

We are consumers as well and 90% of the time want to see our customers win, and 90% of the time they do. Circuit City is very good at standing by CA, its how we make money. The cracks on your laptop are not covered under CA, how hard is that to understand?

"and the sales people encourage that...they don't want us to take the time to read, let alon understand what we are signing. THAT is criminal."

Not only is that untrue it is also NOT against the law. We dont work on comission and could honestly care less if you get service. Each time we offer it, we do it to help.

Hi,

I have also fought for my rights, studying some law in the process, and often have won. The secret is often in the tiny details when it comes to legal construction. The use of the legal term "or" can be very different from its conversational use. Even the presence of a comma before the "or" can change its meaning:

"...ACTS OF NATURE, OR ANY OTHER PERIL ORIGINATING FROM OUTSIDE OF THE PRODUCT."

In this case, the term "or" unfortunately separates the external use from the previous elements of the paragraph, and it is a non-inclusive statement both in legal and logical construction. In other words, the damage to the case earlier in the paragraph can be argued to not be included in the phrase about damage originating externally. So they are saying none of these things are covered, AND, in addition, anything else caused from external sources is also not covered. They are not saying that case damage caused externally is not covered. The case damage and external damage are probably two separate conditions in this sentence's construction, so it can be construed to mean that there are no conditions under which damage to the case is covered since that is clearly excluded.

I wish I had better news for you. I was hoping to find a loophole in their construction, but it looks to me like there is not much room to argue. Your moral, ethical and logical position is sound, but has no legal basis.

The scam started long ago when they failed to teach us in high school anything at all about law, or even how to read a cntract. We sign contracts withut even thinking about what they say - and the sales people encourage that...they don't want us to take the time to read, let alon understand what we are signing. THAT is criminal.

Just one lay opinion...
Regards

First off just to clear the air. Hinges are not covered. They are considered cabinetry and as per her warranty "5. Exclusions from Coverage.

Your Plan does not cover the following:

A.REPLACEMENT NECESSITATED BY LOSS OR DAMAGE RESULTING FROM ANY CAUSE OTHER THAN NORMAL USE AND OPERATION OF THE PRODUCT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MANUFACTURER'S SPECIFICATIONS, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THEFT, EXPOSURE TO WEATHER CONDITIONS, NEGLIGENCE, ACCIDENT, MISUSE, ABUSE,
IMPROPER ELECTRICAL/POWER SUPPLY, UNAUTHORIZED REPAIRS, IMPROPER INSTALLATION OR ATTACHMENTS, TRANSPORTATION DAMAGE (EXCEPT DAMAGE INCURRED BY AUTHORIZED SHIPMENT OF THE PRODUCT TO AND FROM AN AUTHORIZED SERVICER), DAMAGE TO CABINETRY, LACK OF MANUFACTURER SPECIFIED MAINTENANCE, IMPROPER EQUIPMENT MODIFICATIONS, VANDALISM, ANIMAL OR INSECT INFESTATION, RUST, DUST, CORROSION, DEFECTIVE BATTERIES, BATTERY LEAKAGE, BURNED
PHOSPHOR (INCLUDING IMAGE GHOSTING), PIXEL BURNOUT NOT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MANUFACTURER'S SPECIFICATIONS, ACTS OF NATURE, OR ANY OTHER PERIL ORIGINATING FROM OUTSIDE OF THE PRODUCT.

In here it stated that damage to cabinetry is not covered and lawyer or not it isnt covered so now who is sucking on the lemon.

thank you, thank you .. no autographs please...

John's comment is partly right, partly wrong, but mostly wrong.

Your case was indeed probably damaged from opening and closing the lid, a normal function of use of the laptop. The cracks happened because the localized heat softened the plastic and/or caused the temper integrety of the plastic to fail. Thus, the up and down motion of the screen caused minute cracks, which you probably wouldn't have even seen to become big cracks. It could have happened all at once or over time.

Part of the problem is the heating up and then cooling down of the plastic. Add stress to that and you have a failure.

Since the cooling fan failed, that would become the root of the problem and everything else was the result thereof. Anybody who advises you to not drag in a lawyer probably has another agenda - i.e. circumventing your rights to recovery.

Stick to your guns, you are on the right track and your lawyer is your best friend here. I can't understand why companies don't just do the right thing and fix what they are supposed to.

Good luck and tell John to go suck a lemon.

The Hammerhead in Texas

Daniel - before you go through with any extreme steps, you may wish to contact the manufacturer of your laptop.

I had a similar experience with Circuit City in regard to a headphone set I had purchased from them, along with the extended warranty plan. I had the headphones for 2 years - not a scratch on them, still looked brand new, like it came right out the box. Went to place them on my head one day and the right hand piece broke off. I went to the store I bought them at to get an exchange - and the manager, without even looking at the item automatically said "customer abuse - no replacement". Went through the whole chain of command, straight up to the corporate office - still, I got the same reply, in so many words - "it's not our problem".

Finally, I looked up the number for Kenwoods corporate office and gave them a call. The rep I spoke with was really nice about the whole thing and she was quite disgusted with Circuit City treating *any* customer in such a fashion. All I had to do was fax them a copy of the receipt for proof of purchase, and they sent me a brand new set - NOT refurbished. And I'm pretty sure the manager of that particular store got an earful from that rep at Kenwood, because she did say that she was going to have a "nice little chat" with her.

Anyway, try giving the manufacturer a call and see what they have to say - it can't hurt. Good luck with it!

Daniel - before you go through with any extreme steps, you may wish to contact the manufacturer of your laptop.

I had a similar experience with Circuit City in regard to a headphone set I had purchased from them, along with the extended warranty plan. I had the headphones for 2 years - not a scratch on them, still looked brand new, like it came right out the box. Went to place them on my head one day and the right hand piece broke off. I went to the store I bought them at to get an exchange - and the manager, without even looking at the item automatically said "customer abuse - no replacement". Went through the whole chain of command, straight up to the corporate office - still, I got the same reply, in so many words - "it's not our problem".

Finally, I looked up the number for Kenwoods corporate office and gave them a call. The rep I spoke with was really nice about the whole thing and she was quite disgusted with Circuit City treating *any* customer in such a fashion. All I had to do was fax them a copy of the receipt for proof of purchase, and they sent me a brand new set - NOT refurbished. And I'm pretty sure the manager of that particular store got an earful from that rep at Kenwood, because she did say that she was going to have a "nice little chat" with her.

Anyway, try giving the manufacturer a call and see what they have to say - it can't hurt. Good luck with it!

Daniel - before you go through with any extreme steps, you may wish to contact the manufacturer of your laptop.

I had a similar experience with Circuit City in regard to a headphone set I had purchased from them, along with the extended warranty plan. I had the headphones for 2 years - not a scratch on them, still looked brand new, like it came right out the box. Went to place them on my head one day and the right hand piece broke off. I went to the store I bought them at to get an exchange - and the manager, without even looking at the item automatically said "customer abuse - no replacement". Went through the whole chain of command, straight up to the corporate office - still, I got the same reply, in so many words - "it's not our problem".

Finally, I looked up the number for Kenwoods corporate office and gave them a call. The rep I spoke with was really nice about the whole thing and she was quite disgusted with Circuit City treating *any* customer in such a fashion. All I had to do was fax them a copy of the receipt for proof of purchase, and they sent me a brand new set - NOT refurbished. And I'm pretty sure the manager of that particular store got an earful from that rep at Kenwood, because she did say that she was going to have a "nice little chat" with her.

Anyway, try giving the manufacturer a call and see what they have to say - it can't hurt. Good luck with it!

As a proud member of the City Advantage Warranty Administrative body, I would like to clear up a few points to your dilemma:

1. Heat damage to cabinetry (i.e. PLASTIC), does not result in hairline fractures. Consistent testing by Laptop Manufacturers prove that the hairline fractures that are described are a result of opening and closing the Laptop lid. To the best of my knowledge and others who have been in this business know for a FACT that your claim is based on supposition with absolutely NO basis in fact.

2. Why drag in a lawyer if he does'nt know anything about stress dynamics on a Laptop computer? You might as well look up a horses' rear end to attempt curing his headache.

3. If you accurately read your warranty contract, it also states that in ALL circumstances, the warranty takes control. This means that YOU signed the bottom line. Not City Advantage or Circuit City. If you want to point fingers, I suggest you look in the mirror............

Disgusted with Consumers who think a warranty is insurance and don't have the common sense to educate themselves before buying and signing the bottom line.