Forestview Farms SOLD ME A PUPPY WITH SEVERE SAS NEWFOUNDLAND PUPPY Forest, Ohio

Please take notice that Lisa A. Martens and Lisa A. Martens dba Lighthouse Newfoundlands commenced an action in the Lorain County, Ohio, Court of Common Pleas, Case No. 12CV177494, due to the deceptive and defamatory statements made by Julie Thomas in Comments 1 and 3 and I Hate Tacos in Comments 5 and 7 in Ripoff Report No. 865427.  In this action, and in compliance with Ariz. R. Civ. P. 45.1, the Clerk of the Maricopa County, Arizona, Superior Court has issued a subpoena to Ripoff Report for the contact information of the persons who posted these statements on Ripoff Report. 
The subpoenaed information will be sent to Thomas M. Horwitz, Esq.,  Thomas M. Horwitz Co., LPA, 1991 Crocker Road, Suite 600, Westlake, Ohio 44145. 

The Maricopa County Superior Court is located at 201 W. Jefferson, Phoenix, Arizona, 85003.  The Lorain County Court of Common Pleas is located at 225 Court Street, Elyria, Ohio 44035.

For additional information, contact Thomas Horwitz at 440-892-3331.

As I appreciate Ms. Messmers comments,   Fact is non partial refund was ever made and I infact asked to be refunded.  They only suggestion was made was my dog could be sent back for full refund and would be put to sleep.  Of course I've declined the offer.  I appreciate her knowing my claim is real and much severe considering I try very hard everyday just to keep my dog alive.  Gracie must be leashed while I walk her and can never be let off the leash to run.  As for partial refund that I would except.  My vet bills are now outrageous with another visit to Virginia Tech is scheduled in October to see if she can be assisted with getting on beta blockers to slow her heart down.  Sandi  Please get in touch with me if you are truely concerned about her well being and fell as if you are partially responsible.  My email address is gwin33@hotmail.com   I would gladly accept your assistance as putting her to sleep is not an option for our family.   If anyone who reads this will understand after owning a newfoundland they truely love you as you love them and Gracie is now a part of our family as she was when I contacted you about her condition.

Thank You  Amanda

Filed under "Forest View Farms":

http://www.ripoffreport.com/questionable-activities/forest-view-farms/forest-view-farms-sandi-messme-62142.htm

In response as the owner of Forestview Farms to these horrific claims and accusations I would like to speak. 

Amanda does have a true claim and I would not lie about that, however I offered her everything in my power to make things right. I offered a full refund for her to bring the puppy back, a partial refund if she wanted to keep the pup, and/or a replacement puppy. I do pride myself in the testing that I provide for all of my dams and sires. This is the only puppy claim back to me that has suffered from SAS. Both parents of her puppy are heart certified. It is heartbreaking to hear her and her family had to suffer by this puppy but I am not a miracle worker and offered all I could offer. I would never intentionally sell a sick or hurt puppy to anyone. We all need to remember, no matter what precautions and testings we do, we cannot always guarantee a 100% healthy puppy. Same goes for our own human race. Two very healthy people with no health conditions in their families can produce a baby with any type of disease or deficiency; not everything is hereditary and effects every puppy.

In response to the rest of the nonsense being posted; I have not replied to any of these claims in hopes to stay out of such a messy battle of lies and accusations by other breeders and friends of theirs. I have worked very hard for the past 36 years to breed well-tempered, A.K.C. breed standard quality, and healthy pups. All of my dogs are either OFA or Penn-Hipped and heart
certified. Many breeders do not take the time or spend the money to guarantee they are doing all they can to breed healthy puppies. There are many, many people in the United States who are very happy with their Forestview puppy.

Anyone can visit my website, forestviewfarms.net, and see our puppies, dogs, and happy owners. 

Our kennels are very clean and offer an abundance of space for our dogs to play and run. Our nursery where we keep our puppies is air conditioned and heated in the winter. They are provided a clean, spacious area to grow with their mother. When our own adults are not roaming our 5 acre property and playing in the pond, they reside in an area that contains a large indoor area with automatic water and feeders with access anytime to an outside patio and 100 long by 10 running and play area. We have had plenty of people to our facilities and have even been told by The Humane Society that our facilities are much better than those they provide. We are a family business and have 6 people constantly caring for our puppies and dogs. I have been rated excellent through yearly A.K.C. inspections for the past 35 years.

Instead of fighting and pointing out what is a lie and what is not (which is pointless on a website such as this since anyone can falsify information and say they are someone they are not) I would like to offer and encourage anyone who would like to come see my facilities for themselves and talk to me and other owners of my puppies and make their own judgments of me and my
business to please do so. My phone number is 419-273-2673 and website forestviewfarms.net, email forestviewfarms@thewavz.com

Sandi Tocco, as for you, you are totally correct by saying these Rip-Off-Reports can say whatever they wish without proof, however, anyone can look up your police report at the Hardin County Sherriffs website. I have never known someone to show up unannounced to purchase a dog at 10pm on a Friday night, parked by our barn which is not by the house with no cash or
checks. You and I both know what happened and how it happened that night that we do not need to go into detail and I will not allow this to become a battle between you, Lisa, and I. What has been done here is very cynical and I will not allow myself to bash others the way it has been done previously in these posts. I am a responsible and reputable breeder and will continue to do so. I pray you and Lisa find peace out of all of this and will take this nonsense elsewhere.  I would never try to ruin either of your businesses by filing false accusations. Let the people speak who have dealt with each of us first hand and make the final judgments. Please let this be the end to a horrific, and false, bashing of my business. 

Anyone else who may read this post, like I said before, please contact me personally through another means of communication. Also, please be aware of the accessibility to this website and how easily it is to post anything, whether fact or fiction, from any alias name. Please use personal references I can give you from past buyers, vets, etc, to make your own opinions of my business.

Please take bickering somewhere else, this is the beginning and end for me on this website.

When looking into purchasing a Newfoundland dog several years ago, I ran across Forestview Farm whom I called and as luck would have it, they never returned my call. Subsequently I found an amazing breeder with Lighthouse Newfoundlands and now own a beautiful boy that I love dearly, from Ms. Martens.

After owning my own Newfoundland for a couple of years, I became aware that not all breeders were of the same high standards as Lighthouse and became involved in independent rescue work. Sadly, I must agree with the above people that are critical of Forestview Farm as many of the dogs I rescue originate from there. Last year I visited Forestview Farm which isn't far from my home, to speak with the breeder in hopes of giving her any assistance or education she may have required, thus ending the many rescues from at least one source. Sandy Mesmer, the elderly owner of Forestview Farm, became enraged at my offer of help and threatened to have me arrested if I didn't leave immediately, which I did. As a side note, there was not one dog in sight although I could hear many barking.

From my experience I would ask anyone considering purchasing a dog or puppy of any breed from Forestview Farm to ask for references, ask to see ALL the facilities, and most importantly, call rescue groups and shelters near Forest Ohio where Forestview Farm is located. I am currently working with the ASPCA and hopefully people like myself that care about ending the exploitation of animals for money will be able to make a difference.

here I thought detroit tocco would be a page where you had rescued dogs and maybe a place where you put your newfie puppies up for free home but I see now your threatening us

Organized Crime In Detroit: Forgotten But Not Gone CBS Detroit

detroit.cbslocal.com/.../organized-crime-in-detroit-forgotten-but-not-...Cached
You +1'd this publicly. Undo24 Jun 2011 Peter Tocco's grandfather was William Black Bill Tocco, the Detroit mafia's founding father, establishing the crime syndicate in 1931 after ...

Tony Tocco, Aquitted In Detroit's Biggest Mob Case, Dies On The ...

detroit.cbslocal.com/.../tony-tocco-aquitted-in-detroit-mob-case-dies-...Cached
You +1'd this publicly. Undo3 Feb 2012 Anthony "Tony" Joseph Tocco, of Chesterfield Township, the only ... is the author of Motor City Mafia: A Century of Organized Crime in Detroit. ...

Alleged mafia boss Jack Tocco, 16 leaders indicted by grand jury for ...

www.forensic-intelligence.org/mob/40062.htmCached - Similar
You +1'd this publicly. Undo15 Mar 1996 Although investigators call them the "Detroit Mafia," only one lives in the city. Those arrested include: * Jack Tocco, 69, the retired former ...

The American Mafia - Detroit Crime Bosses

www.onewal.com/maf-b-de.htmlCached - Similar
You +1'd this publicly. UndoZerilli (left) replaced Tocco in 1936 as the most visible member of the Partnership's local "Council of Dons" and reigned over the Detroit Mafia for three decades ...

Can you legally threaten someone in public your going to send the MAFIA after them?  That's a bit extreme don't you think? would the Mafia care about a dog? So you belong to groups like ASPCA and animal rights but your family is MAFIA where you take a chance of waking up with a horse head beside you, isn't that a conflicking arrangement to belong to both groups?

As for your disgusting Pictures, Forestview has Never had spaniels and I thought Lisa ONLY had Newfoundland dogs, so now she is breeding Spaniels? So confusing

So where are the Pictures of the sick Newfs? Dirty kennels? anyone can get pictures off the net, you keep saying you have proof but nothing yet in your reports

and do you buy all the litters from Forestview farms? you forgot to mention that in your last report and a phone number?

all your reports are clearly LIES now you say we have black souls and are sending in the MAFIA

here's what you write "all the dogs (not puppies) I've gotten from you have been well documented by my vet and the State of Michigan Veterinary Clinic." so you admit now that the 2 wonderful newfoundlands you have are from Forestview and NOT Lighthouse?

If you have all this documented and things are so bad why is Forestview still running? Could they not find anything wrong with her kennel? Your just on a hell ride because you were charged?

Sandy would Never HIDE!! She is not a weak woman, she would be standing in front of you!! and another reason why you hate her for she is just not going to put up with your slander anymore!

your just a huge pain in the a** and love making trouble, go get a job!! oh and you LIED again you said you were too good to POST again on Rip off

Your words "Obviously there isn't much credit to be put in these Rip-Off-Reports as it appears anyone can say whatever they wish without any proof. Once again, and for the last time because this is becoming a HUGE waste of my time

At least I showed Proof where is yours?

You willing admit in your prior rant you publicly posted my personal information including my social security number? Your words: "The proof has been attached, get glasses, arrest papers with your full name and even your security number..."

Welcome to a hell of my making. You haven't any idea who you're dealing with nor does Messmer, but you're about to find out. You might start by Googling 'Tocco Detroit'. And by the way, thanks for the years of bad breeding Messmer, all the dogs (not puppies) I've gotten from you have been well documented by my vet and the State of Michigan Veterinary Clinic. Those reports, the many old and new pictures of your kennel and dogs, plus my status with the ASPCA and PETA should finally put an end to your puppy mill. Don't feel left out though Christina, I promise I won't forget you.

Thank you and may God have mercy on your black souls.

PS. Included just a few of the many pix I have of dogs from Forestview Farms/Sandra J. Messmer. I was with Ms. Martens at Forestview Farms, at the request of Mrs. Messmer who hid while we were there, to pick up Ms. Martens Clumber Spaniel that was supposed to have been bred. The really sad thing is we found Ms. Martens Clumber in an outside cement run, no shelter, in February with the fecal matter, dirt and urine frozen to her...and the dog was at Messmer's/Forestview Farms, less than 2 weeks! Good luck in your dealings with this nasty old wind-bag...you're going to need it.

The proof has been attached, get glasses, arrest papers with your full name and even your security number so why deny it and write LIES yet again, this just makes you look stupid when people can plainly see the reports
Yes you were trespassing and had a kennel in your car for you were only there for ONE reason to steal a Newfoundland dog and her pups for money, I am sure your next report will be to Save them from their horrible conditions, either way youre a theft and a liar and just mad that you were Caught and CHARGED
When the sheriff asked you why you were there you said you were looking for a lost dog, then you said you were there to buy one YET you had NO MONEY and no CHECKS?? How were you going to pay for the dog that was NOT for sale in the first place?  Yes your vehicle was Empty and so was the Crate you took to steal the dog. 1 hour for coffee? They held you to 3AM and coffee wasnt served
A Lot can Happen in 9 WEEKS,  face it you have no idea where your dogs came from Do the DNA before you blab off again unless your scared of the outcome? its 20.00 
 
Let me get this straight, You purchase these pups from forestview and give them away for free wow your a saint, Do you buy a full litter at a time? how do you place these pups? Do you screen people? Do you have a web site to show these wonderful families the parents, do you offer a health contract? Are you AKC? Do you just post them on Lighthouses web site? Do you make sure they are all vaccinated before they leave, I have a friend who wants a free newfie pup, Make sure you put your number in the next rip off full of lies so people who want a free newf can call you
I know Lisa would cry to sandy she had no pups and buy them for 800.00 and sell them for 1800.00 and call them Lighthouse dogs, is this what you mean when you say you buy sandys pups?
 
I dont care if you believe I use to be Forestview farms neighbor or not, but for the other people reading this I lived there for 22 years and go back every summer. My Mother and Father Ron and Angie still farm their land, my Father is a watch dog and knows everyone around there and strange he doesnt know you, all the neighbors are good living people and would never be in contact with the likes of you, name these people your such good friends with, you have been there twice, once to look the place over and the second time to STEAL a DOG!

I have known Sandy and her Husband John for years, they are good living people, has a very nice set up, kennel beautiful land and are out everyday working around the farm, this summer they put rocks all around their pond for the Newfoundland's to swim and play. Most of her dogs are running free around the property like Newfoundlands should
Lighthouse has put no money into her set up in years, always crying she is broke, she has a pond on her land but only dumps dirty wood chips from the kennels into it for the dogs are Never allowed out of there kennels
 
 I agree there is a huge difference in Forestview and Lighthouse dogs.  Forestview does the screening and Lighthouse just says she does until they ask for the proof, then you never hear from her again.  Forestview has beautiful heads and good size.  Lighthouse's dogs are very small and terribly Inbred.
As for getting money in cash, that is the way of the world, who wants bad checks.  lighthouse on the other hand runs the money through her mommy's accounts to hide it.  Does she get dog tags for her dogs? get a kennel license to sell puppies?  Does she claim the income off of her puppies for state and federal taxes? Does she get a vendor's license and pay sales tax which is now required in the state of Ohio?  Does anyone know where to report these violations?   20 years of breeding that is a lot of back taxes  
GP (Ken) from Loveland go find a new spider to play with before she eats you Up and gets pound puppy to do a rip off on your web site too!
Lighthouse Lisa loves to run every one down and make them just Hate other people they don't even know, then you feel sorry for her and believe everything she says, she will ask you to help her for she is all alone and has nobody and that you need to email someone for her or call someone for they have been mean to her or write a rip off, have you ever really thought about this? How can one person have so many problems and so many people hating her? Maybe all these stories you read and hear are true, maybe she isnt miss perfect, maybe she has really hurt and Screwed people over the years. Take your blinders off, you should really look into some of the stories or call the breeders before running to the damsel in distress everytime she cries, your all just flies in her web and are hurting innocent people because the black widow doesn't like them!
She is like the school teacher who sleeps with her students so they will kill her husband, feeds them lies until they kill him and then acts all innocent in court.
 
people who live in glass houses should never throw rocks unless they want the tax man and others on their door steps!!

Obviously there isn't much credit to be put in these Rip-Off-Reports as it appears anyone can say whatever they wish without any proof. Once again, and for the last time because this is becoming a HUGE waste of my time, I will respond to the post that is nothing more than concocted lies and imaginary hallucinations of breeders that obviously are off their medication. I will also follow the rules and stick to Forestview Farms, Sandra J. Messmer, etal.

In regard to my being arrested SIX years ago, as you somewhat correctly stated, it was for trespassing charges pressed by Sandra Messmer of Forestview Farms when I went there to ask about buying one of her bitches. Mrs. Messmer obviously has something to hide because she literally "freaked" (the Sheriff's words, not mine) when I was driving away after finding nobody home. It was only in Mrs. Messmer's mind that I was looking to steal puppies from her, the proof being she had several litters at the time (or so she said) and yet upon inspection my vehicle was EMPTY. Needless to say after spending an hour drinking coffee with the Sheriff, I was issued a citation, released and the ticket was later dropped. As the Sheriff confirmed, Mrs. Messmer could have "the Avon lady arrested if she was on her property and didn't want her there."

In your reference to Mrs. Messmer's old Dog Warden that was indicted and convicted on several shady charges, I did NOT say I had him arrested as you state. If you are capable of understanding the English language, not the French spoken in Alberta, you would see from your own post that I said, "Looks like karma finally paid him a visit", not that I had him arrested.

Your statement of being a former neighbor of Forestview Farms and being to her kennels on several occasions is an outright lie. Sorry, no other way to say that, but I know Forestview Farms neighbors, have spoken with several of them and keep in contact with a few to this day, and you aren't one of them. Nor is her old barn/kennel air conditioned, heated or clean. To this day I continue to purchase dogs from Mrs. Messmer through third parties, and place them for free into good, loving homes. If Mrs. Messmer/Forestview Farms had me fill out an application or did a background check of any sort, she would know this. All she is concerned with though is getting the money in cash "for tax purposes." I've taken immediate possession of every one of these dogs and without fail, they have to be treated for severe skin conditions, internal parasites, cherry eye, and even parvo. Titer testing has also shown she either doesn't vaccinate her dogs, or doesn't know what she's doing. In short, and as anyone purchasing dogs from her will find, she's known by every rescue organization to be nothing more than a greedy old lady that runs a puppy mill.

Lastly, I'll address and thank you for your statement that both my dogs came from Forestview Farms. You provided several people with a much needed chuckle when you said this! My first girl that I purchased from Lighthouse Newfs, is the daughter of Lighthouses Shooting Star and Watchbear's Mr. Blue Sky, or are you saying that Lighthouse, Watchbear AND Forestview Farms all falsified papers? I think not. To say that my second girl is also a Forestview Farm dog actually gave quite a few of us a good laugh! I not only assisted Ms. Martens in breeding the sire and dam, but was at Lighthouse when she was born and helped whelp the entire litter! Or are you also saying that the high and mighty, beyond reproach Mrs. Messmer allowed one of her pregnant bitches to not only be at Lighthouse and still be at Lighthouse, but also allowed Ms. Martens to whelp the litter AND register her as her own? Again, I think not.

Any further ramblings or childish name calling is something I won't lower myself to address. As you will find, there is a vast difference in the health, looks and temperament between dogs from Forestview Farms and Lighthouse Newfs. It's the reason Ms. Martens is an AKC Breeder of Merit and after 30 years, Mrs. Messmer is just a greedy, spiteful old lady.

Miss Taco PET,
Your Newfoundlands you have and speak so highly of came from Forestview farms.  Lighthouse told Sandy years ago she sold you her dogs.  Do a dna!! This is too funny and here you are bad-mouthing her kennel when you should be thanking her for your wonderful dogs.  I have been to Forestview several times, we use to be neighbors.  Her kennels are spotless and she is very open about letting anyone visit anytime.  Stop by when you are in the area and see for yourself.  Oh wait... I guess if you did you would be Arrested. !!  Her kennels are heated and air-conditioned and her dogs have as much water and food as they want, not like Lighthouse dogs where they are fed once a day when she feels like it, she sleeps to 2 PM

 Lisa Martens at Lighthouse Newfoundlands set you up and had you TRY to steal a dog with puppies from Sandy.   More puppies to sell, I believe I see a pattern, isn't that what happened with the Thanksgiving puppies? Greed? You were even charged with what criminal trespass and obstructing official business?  Anyone can go to www.hardinshefiff.com and request the info to see for yourself.  It is incident number 06019103.  I have seen the report.  The next to the last line says, "The suspect was advised that if she returned to the complainant's residence she would be arrested immediately.  The suspect indicated that she did understand and would not be returning."  So you have returned since then?  The report is dated 3/4/2006.
Still after all you went through you are still her friend and PET.  Lisa did not stand up for you, she let you fend for yourself and walked away.  Now  six years later you are at it again, trying to hurt other people for what. Does Lisa give you a treat for being such a good pet?
 
You have posted on your facebook that you had the dog warden fired, wouldn't that be a crime?   I see Lisa likes this.   Do your friends really believe that, now how stupid are they?  You need to take all the time you spend trying to do malicious things to good people to just check out Lisa and all her misgivings.  One day soon I hope you have the good sense to realize Lisa is just a user and has used all the good people she now wants to ruin because they found out what she was all about and are done with her. Good luck with your DNA  and quit posting lies on ripoff.  You are becoming a nuisance and have no idea what you are talking about, you are just being mean.  I do have one question?  How does a breeder, (LIsa Martens) actually sleep at night when they tell another breeder the dog died and then sell it to someone else and still want the breeder to do a refund.  Why is this post still on ripoff.  You have to wonder about what ripoff is all about don't you.   How can you in all honesty defend someone that would actually do that.  From what I read in the posts, why didn't lighthouse just take the dog back to Wind dancer Kennel?    Hmmmmm do I see $$$$$signs?
 
Words from my grandfather, "  the two worst people in the world are thieves and liars, I guess a liar is the worst, you can at least watch a thief."Karma is coming for you and one day you will be on rip off posting nasty things about Lighthouse Newfoundlands!! once she is done with you and you walk away with a knife in your back
 
 

I stumbled across this report while researching breeders in the Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky area.The poor woman (Amanda) who originally posted this plea for help is obviousloy very upset about her experience with her SAS puppy purchased from Forestview Farms. She has been completely ignored and her case has, in my opinion, become a silly battle for a breeder who doesnt seem to know what shes talking about and probably shouldn't even be commenting.  Forestview Farms: shame on you for having this Windancer lady to do your dirty work for you.  It is time for you to own up to this report, and help Amanda.  Amanda, I am sorry about your Newfoundland dog.  Also, now would be the time to report who the parents are of your poor dog so that others might avoid a similar fate. If Forestview Farms won't address this situation and make it right, others should avoid buying a puppy from them. Amanda, you have my deepest sympathy. G.P.

  Aren't you the girlfriend of Lisa Martens brother Joey ? Yes, I am windancer newfoundlands, and proud of that for 20 years....anyone can visit any time...I do not sleep all day.......any reader of these reports is urged to call around the newfoundland breeding community to confirm evey word I say about the dishonesty of Lisa Martens at LIghthouse newwfoundlands. You, Sandi, are a puppet of hers. IF that is not enough you can visit Utube and find Lisa as Stella Deen doing porn tapes...Yes, I know you have been to Sandi Mesmers, as you blast her too at lisas direction.. You were there to steal a b***h and litter and got caught !  So why don't you stop this nonsense... You have been outed...both of you...I don't need to personally meet Lisa... The few month dealing I had with her were enough.

I curse the day I took her first phone call... 

Writing as a 'consumer' or client and friend of Lisa, owner of Lighthouse, I take serious issue with the prior rant by Windancer Newfoundlands owner, Julie Thomas. Not only do I own two of Lighthouses dogs, my first just turned 11 years old and is doing marvelous! I would NEVER go to any other breeder for a Newfoundland.

Since purchasing my first newfie from Lisa back in 2001, we have kept in contact and become fast friends over the years. On numerous occasions I have been to her kennels, assisted her in whelping puppies and watched her run with a broken toe to put her kids into their indoor kennel when there was rain moving in. But enough about how much Lisa loves her dogs and being a single gal, considers them her family.

In response to the above reports I can verify the statement made by the original poster as I've been to Forestview Farms on more than one occasion and seen her 'facilities' with my own eyes. The dogs are jammed in old cow stalls with 6" of poop (at least) on the floor, fed the cheapest generic food and have one bucket of water for 8-10 dogs. These are just the Newfoundlands and Entlebuch Mountain dogs. The smaller 'designer dogs' are kept in either small crates or housed in small outdoor kennels on a cement pad regardless of weather conditions. I have spoken to numerous, credible Newfoundland breeders as well as rescue shelters and they ALL give a 'thumbs-down' to Forestview Farms a.k.a. Sandi Messmer.

Likewise, the above poster, Julie Thomas, neglects to disclose that she is the owner and breeder of Windancer Newfoundland kennels in Missouri, is a long-distance acquaintance of Forestview Farms in Ohio, but they have never met. For that matter, Ms. Thomas of Windance Newfoundlands has never met Lisa of Lighthouse Newfs. As any simple Google search will show, Windancer Newfoundlands and/or Ms. Thomas have also been negatively reported numerous times .

It's my opinion and the opinion of anyone credible in the Newfoundland dog breeding world, that Forestview Farms and Windancer Newfoundlands are both akin to puppy mills that add nothing to the betterment of the breed.

...This report was totally fabricated by Lisa Martens of lighthouse Newfoundlands.,as are many others on this site posted anonamously by her . You should totally ignore it. Lisa Prides herself in "Putting out of business" any competition that she is not friendly with. I cannot tell you what a psycopath and lier this individual is. just check with others around the newfoundland world and you will know that what I say is valid..there is absolutely nothing wrong or unethical about this breeder in this report,