Indian Valley Kennels Carla Ferrier Owner/Breeder Sold puppy with multiple undesirable traits. Refused to provide "lifetime of support to each new family" Glade Hill Virginia

 After years of research into NAIDs and NAVDs, my partner and I decided to bite the bullet and hop on to the the little known native american dog recreation train. After talking with all the breeders we could find, Carla at Indian Valley Kennels had gained out trust and seemed to have goals aligned with our own. We took the trip across the country, from Texas, to visit with her and bring out baby home.

We are just enamored with our pup. The entire litter met all of the breeds guidelines. The dam was probably the sweetest dog we've ever met and the puppies happy and healthy. The pup, after enduring long car rides, flights, trams, and huge international airports didn't fuss once. He's just about fully potty trained himself and having to relieve himself is about the only time he will bark.

Keep in mind, this is day 4. He's 8 weeks old today. He sleeps in his kennel all night, plays gently, and tolerates all manner of kids running through the house and raising hell in the last week before school starts from summer break. We've already training and he has nothing but excitement, and love to show for our efforts.

We took our pup straight to our vet and he was given the all clear and scheduled for all of his follow up shots. He was more than happy to be poked, prodded, and meticulously gone over. Carla has been in constant contact with us. I can't even count the messages we've exchanged per day. She's more than earned our trust and respect.

I honestly cant speak more highly of her. Next year, if her breeding program works out the way we hope we'll be returning for a dam or to help stud to further the breed and start our own own stock to hopefully proliferate here in the southwest.

Just to let everyone know who visits this site to read up on this report.  The pup who was whiny and timid, soils in the house, fights leash, soils kennel, snaps, unable to contain in a 6ft fenced area, unpredictable behavior not fit for to be a family dog, who attempted to bite the trainer who was evaluating him and who said this dog had more wolf characteristics than he should (he has no wolf in him, for those who are wondering), is now around all kinds of people, children and other dogs, he even visits an autisitic shool helping the children, this pup also now assists his new owner in training timid, dog agressive and overly shy dogs.  This dog is owned by a trainer who states that he is not what the previous owners/or trainer had stated and has become one of the best dogs she has owned and she is amazed at these dog's intelligence and trainability.  He has excelled in training and pulling under harness and the owner has even mentioned she may pursue tracking with him as well.   The new owner has only wonderful things to say about him and is extremely impressed with the breed.  She has been training dogs for over 35 yrs.  and runs a boarding facility as well.   This dog is out in the public and to pet stores and is always being petted by strangers young and old, even gets groomed regularily.   No problems.  So hopefully this clears up any misconceptions of what you may think about what this individual said.  It has not been the case.  Actually far from the truth.

This breed is fairly new and not a lot of information is avalible, yet, except for readings from native tribes. The breeders are currently reling on the feedback of the owners. It is a shame when one owner tries to damage to reputation of this very intelligent and loving breed. I hope to clear up some of the concerns I have heard here. First off, there is NO WOLF in the lineage of this breed. They are known to be a shy, timid breed, but with good socializing, this breed can and will overcome these issues. It is also recommended that an extensive training regiment is followed at an early age. This is a must for any breed. This type of dog has such a wonderful personality and has shown many traits from its ancestors, but has not been reported as a vicous preditor. It is natural for any dog, when taken from the one place they have known and brought into a new environment, to show some signs of insecurity. Heck, even people have the same response. If there were behavior issues that were seen with this family, it was not because of the dog, but the owner not following a training program. Once this dog found a new home (second owner), the dog was fine, infact, better than fine. This dog became a role model for other dogs with obedience issues. You can view the testimonials on Indian Valley's website. It is a true success story. As far as it is known, there are no known health or behavior issues with the new breed that have been a show stopper. It is and will continue to be closely monitored. It can only happen with the communication between the breeders and owners, as they work towards bringing in and taking out certain issues or concerns in an effort to make this breed better. As I said in the beginning, it is a new breed and is still is the experimental stages.

To me, it seems that this angry costumer was only trying to take revenge on the breeder and damage her reputation.

I do think that the pup could have been quite alright. I do not know this peculiar dog breed very well, but I have had a Border Collie, another dog who needs special care and is not always suitable for homes. Not because of aggressiveness, not at all, but simply because it is a very intelligent and hyperactive dog who carves for an utility. Like the BC, The NAID seems to need space, maybe not as much activity, but as any dog, time and affection. I does seems, like the BC and other herders on the 3rd level of the neotenic scale, and the husky, one of its ancestor, who is at about the 15th level, need special owners who know the breed and know what to do and how to do it.

My BC, Picotine, was a pet-shop hybrid of BC and probably labrador. My parents had bought her in the times when puppy mills were not very known to the public. The vendor of course never told us she needed much garden space, lots, lots, LOTS of exercice and most of all something to do, work, sport, anything. We loved her a lot, and she truly loved us back, but she was not very happy. She was nervous, had no real problem at first but gnawing at everything out of solitude. For the four of us had day jobs and school.

Which is perfectly normal for ANY family! This costumer should not feel bad about that. What she should feel bad about, is not taking the time to care for this dog. And learning to do it the right way for her dog!

When our Picotine first met another dog (She had been chasing squirrels and cats and cars and pedestrians all her waking hours, barking like crazy), she attacked it. Even attacked it to prevent it to respond to its owner's call. She was never aggressive against any human, but whenever she met a dog, she would attack. She once growled at a small kid who squeezed too hard, but after that evaded kids.

Of course the pet-shop vendor never told us anything about this aggressiveness toward dogs. But a breeder is something else. They usually have enough waiting lists for their pups to keep buyers waiting for a while. And the costumers are willing to wait and pay for quality. The good and moral breeders can and will spot behavioral flaws, and they will not sell such pups to owners, specially not homes!

We were in for a desillusion about our Picotine, she had her flaws, and we did not know how to quell them or to give her good qualities. But we loved her till her end. If this costumer, like my parents, did not know better, they they only have themselves to blame.

I actually was wondering if it was a wolf hybrid as well. That is what the OP made it sound like. I have had experience with all three, wolves, dogs, and hybrids. To sell a hybrid is dangerous, and completely irresponsible. The OP sounded like an unreasonable, makes me angry person, but if the breeder sold a wolf hybrid, they deserve to be blasted as well. I am completely unfamiliar with the breed of dog mentioned, so, I have nothing to say there. Curious, would they happen to be fear biters? Or would they be likely to become fear biters if not handled properly?Certainly sounds like the poor little guy went through alot. And to have the nerve to blame you for the UTI as well. Geeze. And if the trainer was one of those crack pot, lame brained, attack trainers (we all know which ones I'm talking about right), that can only control one or two of their many dogs in reality, and don't really know much about breeds or training at all, the poor kid was doomed from the start. I feel so bad for you. And to know of the likelyhood the poor baby was euthanized. How heartbreaking. While we all talk about bad breeders, the bad buyers are hardly ever called out, because it is soooo easy to make it the breeder's fault. And no matter how hard you try, there are going to be some that fool you.

I actually was wondering if it was a wolf hybrid as well. That is what the OP made it sound like. I have had experience with all three, wolves, dogs, and hybrids. To sell a hybrid is dangerous, and completely irresponsible. The OP sounded like an unreasonable, makes me angry person, but if the breeder sold a wolf hybrid, they deserve to be blasted as well. I am completely unfamiliar with the breed of dog mentioned, so, I have nothing to say there. Curious, would they happen to be fear biters? Or would they be likely to become fear biters if not handled properly?Certainly sounds like the poor little guy went through alot. And to have the nerve to blame you for the UTI as well. Geeze. And if the trainer was one of those crack pot, lame brained, attack trainers (we all know which ones I'm talking about right), that can only control one or two of their many dogs in reality, and don't really know much about breeds or training at all, the poor kid was doomed from the start. I feel so bad for you. And to know of the likelyhood the poor baby was euthanized. How heartbreaking. While we all talk about bad breeders, the bad buyers are hardly ever called out, because it is soooo easy to make it the breeder's fault. And no matter how hard you try, there are going to be some that fool you.

I actually was wondering if it was a wolf hybrid as well. That is what the OP made it sound like. I have had experience with all three, wolves, dogs, and hybrids. To sell a hybrid is dangerous, and completely irresponsible. The OP sounded like an unreasonable, makes me angry person, but if the breeder sold a wolf hybrid, they deserve to be blasted as well. I am completely unfamiliar with the breed of dog mentioned, so, I have nothing to say there. Curious, would they happen to be fear biters? Or would they be likely to become fear biters if not handled properly?Certainly sounds like the poor little guy went through alot. And to have the nerve to blame you for the UTI as well. Geeze. And if the trainer was one of those crack pot, lame brained, attack trainers (we all know which ones I'm talking about right), that can only control one or two of their many dogs in reality, and don't really know much about breeds or training at all, the poor kid was doomed from the start. I feel so bad for you. And to know of the likelyhood the poor baby was euthanized. How heartbreaking. While we all talk about bad breeders, the bad buyers are hardly ever called out, because it is soooo easy to make it the breeder's fault. And no matter how hard you try, there are going to be some that fool you.

I actually was wondering if it was a wolf hybrid as well. That is what the OP made it sound like. I have had experience with all three, wolves, dogs, and hybrids. To sell a hybrid is dangerous, and completely irresponsible. The OP sounded like an unreasonable, makes me angry person, but if the breeder sold a wolf hybrid, they deserve to be blasted as well. I am completely unfamiliar with the breed of dog mentioned, so, I have nothing to say there. Curious, would they happen to be fear biters? Or would they be likely to become fear biters if not handled properly?Certainly sounds like the poor little guy went through alot. And to have the nerve to blame you for the UTI as well. Geeze. And if the trainer was one of those crack pot, lame brained, attack trainers (we all know which ones I'm talking about right), that can only control one or two of their many dogs in reality, and don't really know much about breeds or training at all, the poor kid was doomed from the start. I feel so bad for you. And to know of the likelyhood the poor baby was euthanized. How heartbreaking. While we all talk about bad breeders, the bad buyers are hardly ever called out, because it is soooo easy to make it the breeder's fault. And no matter how hard you try, there are going to be some that fool you.

Sorry for got to mention to S.N. - The breed is a NAVD (Native American Village Dog) which is a breed created to replicate the old village dogs Native Americans used to own many years ago. There are several dogs in the mix to create the animal, see my other post or visit the company's site, all the info is there. These dogs are not Wolf Hybrids.

This is really to S.N.... I don't understand why you are bringing up the warning about Wolf Hybrids. These are not Wolf Hybrids, the bloodlines come from several dogs including Malamute and GSD, the lineage is all on their website and not a single animal mentioned is any kind of wolf.

I also notice a contradiction in the reporter's emails... the first emails clearly indicate the dog is wonderful and working out nicely and they seem very happy with him. There is no mention of aggressive behavior at all. Then SUDDENLY 3 months later they claim the dog is a danger to society and has been since day 1, which the original emails clearly say otherwise. Something is seriously not jiving with this report at all.

I am a customer of Carla and Indian Valley Kennels and I am extremely pleased and satisfied with both her company's service and the extrordinary puppy she sold us. In fact, our puppy is from the same litter as the puppy in question in this report and I am absolutely baffled about this report and I have heard nothing but good comments from the owners of all the other puppies from this litter.

My puppy was also timid and started to submissive urinate very rarely after a couple of weeks of getting her, however with some simple training by having her stand when my wife would go to pet her, she was over it within a month. She is still timid, however is extremely friendly with other dogs and loves to play at the dog park, and with exposure to large crowds and busy streets, she quickly overcame any fears she may have had. She is also extremely gentle, especially with toddlers and young children and never opens her mouth when anyone touches her, even just to lick. She just lays down and lets herself be handled. She is my 5 year old daughter's best friend and she is easily the most intelligent and gentle dog I have ever owned. In fact, she completed all 3 levels of obediance training by 7 months of age.

It sounds to me like this person should have been a bit more prepared for the trials and tribulations of a new puppy. Puppies are unable to hold their bodily functions for very long, so soiling in the house and even in the crate is to be expected and accidents are common even until 4 - 5 months of age if you do not take them out soon enough. Puppies need to go constantly, even when crated... you can't expect them to hold on to their urine even if they are crated for very long periods of time. Also, some dogs are very mouthy and require some extra effort to teach them the boundaries of what they can and can't bite, and what level of mouthing is appropriate during play (Dogs don't have hands, they use their mouths).

The IVK website actually has all this information on their website, but I am familiar with many people that didn't realize what's involved in owning a puppy, and expect an 8 week old puppy to be housebroken and able to hold their "business" for several hours when crated and not touch anything except for their designated chew toys... nothing could be further from the truth.

I don't think this lack of preparation warrants this kind of report against Carla, and I have nothing but good things to say about her. She has always been available and ready to help whenever I had any questions about the dogs, dog products and training or product suggestions. She tolerated dozens of emails and questions before I purchased the dog, and responded just as quickly and as helpful AFTER the sale.

Thanks again to Carla for the most amazing pet we could have ever asked for and thank you for the continued support you give us anytime we need it. Anyone is welcome to contact me if they want to know anything about my buying experience with Indian Valley Kennels or about my dog.

Thanks,
Dan

In all the years I have been rescuing large breed canines, I have only had two with "strong prey drive". Those two were not adopted into homes with small animals or small children. No one can "guarantee" temperment at the age of 8 weeks no matter who you are or how long you have been "breeding". How soon after you noticed issues with your canine did you put the dog in training? And, once again, if you purchased a wolf hybrid and put the dog in your home with your family, you have no one to blame but yourself.

These are the emails I have received from the husband of Deborah who states that this pup has had behavioral issues from day one. They received the puppy on June 9, 2008 at eight weeks old. Read for yourself and tell me if this jives. I would think I would have received a telephone call or something before things supposedly got so bad. Have left voice mails on all Arlen's phone numbers in order to confirm this. As of this date 9/23/2008, I have not heard from him.

I do not use early nuerological stimulation to ensure a good match. You can research the benefits of "early neurological stimulation" by doing a search on the web. Dr. Battaglia has written about the benefits of using it.

I have blocked out some of the owners email address for his protection. I am showing these to show the info that I have received about Gauche up until the last email.
_______________________________________________________________________

Here he is.....

Thursday, June 12, 2008 5:05 PM
From:
"Bradley, Arlen x" > > > >

Arlen,




RE: Here he is.....
Tuesday, June 17, 2008 12:03 AM
From:
"Bradley, Arlen "
To:
"Carla Ferrier"
Message contains attachments
Gache.doc (9464KB)

Carla,

Gache is doing great!!!! Typical cute, mischievous puppy but full of love and smiles....

Sorry about the photos. Let me try something & send you a mini version....

Thanks,
Arlen




FW: Gache 4 months

Monday, August 25, 2008 10:02 AM
From:
"Bradley, Arlen x"
To:
"Carla Ferrier"
Message contains attachments
100_0660.JPG (1899KB), 100_0657.JPG (805KB), 100_0659.JPG (1652KB)

Hi there Carla,

We had a health scare last week (Bladder issues) but I think the Vet got him all better...

Here are a couple of photos of Gache at 4 months. As you can see he is developing into an amazingly striking dog. I can't go anywhere without people stopping and asking questions about him...

Keep in touch...

> > >
Arlen x. Bradley




RE: FW: Gache 4 months
Monday, August 25, 2008 11:52 AM
From:
"Bradley, Arlen x"
To:
naids2@yahoo.com
Message contains attachments
100_0663.JPG (1036KB), 100_0566.JPG (538KB)

Hi Carla,

He's still a bid squirrely around new dogs & people but once he's familiar w/ them he becomes pretty friendly.

Regarding his temperament he's very playful w/ a strong prey drive (Of course my cat loves to egg him on) He has begun to display a bit more Alpha in his play; however the other dog's tolerate him until they get annoyed then put him back in his place. He's learned to sit & wait in front of his dish until given the command Ok, eat He allows me to handle him while he's eating and so far I have not witnessed any unprovoked aggressiveness (Just playful barking or whining with other dogs during play)

He does have a stubborn side if I want him to come to me & he's still exploring. I have to stomp my foot on the ground to gain his attention then he responds to my commands.

His coat has begun to grow a bit longer and softer except around the hindquarters. They seem to favor a Shepherds undercoat. The photo's don't show his coloring very well but he's becoming more & more light tan around the back of his head and between ears, hips, backside of legs, & underside of tail.

All in all I believe Gache is a special dog that has limitless potential. You did a good job pairing his parents up. What are his siblings like? I did see one of his brothers has similar markings except Gache does have a predominate widows peak over his eyes and a striking mask on his face.

Keep in touch,
Thanks,
Arlen
____________________________________________________________

Then just 3 weeks later this email comes to me through my old website



A comment form was submitted
Saturday, September 20, 2008 6:24 PM
From:
"Trellix Mailer"
To:
naids2@yahoo.com
fullname: Arlen x Bradley
email: arlen.x.bradley@xxxxxxxx.com

comments: Hi Carla, We just got back from having Gotche evaluated by a professional trainer. He is a beautiful looking dog and we have tried hard to have him fit into our family and home. Unfortunately, he has multiple temperment issues that are not responding to training and with today's evaluation it is clear we can no longer keep him in our home. We are per contract officially giving you first right to claim him. If you are unable to take hime back then we request your help in immediately placing him into another home. We need an answer on where to place him immediately as he is a danger to the small children in our neighborhood. He has failed to bond with any human family member, has submissive urination and soils in the house and in his kennel despite appropriate training methods. We are unable to contain him in our fenced yard. He has biten and drawn blood. He fights a lease and tries to bite when one is applied. He is more a wild animal then a dog. Please !
answer ASAP. Arlen and Family

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

This was the email I sent in response to the above email: This is the only correspondence I have received from this owner regarding these issues as shown from the other previous emails. I do offer lifetime support but have to be given the opportunity to do so. Giving support does not mean I have to take the pet back immediately. I prefer, if possible, to try to work with the family in dealing with the issues along with their trainer. Based on the information provided to me it appears that there was no hope for Gauche. As noted I suggested a second opinion and requested the name of the "professional" trainer and never received any response back. I cannot, as a responsible breeder, re-home a pup that I have been advised is dangerous. No responsible breeder would do that. He was not like that when he left here and based on the emails after he arrived at his new home was not like that from day one.


Re: Gauche
Saturday, September 20, 2008 9:54 PM
From:
"Carla Ferrier"
To:
arlen.x.bradley@xxxxxxxxx.com
Hello Arlen,

That is very disturbing to hear. I had no idea you were having those types of problems with him, especially the aggression issues and the biting. I must tell you if he has bitten and drawn blood and is showing signs of aggression that is not trainable I can only advise you to possibly euthanize him as I don't feel I can place him safely in another family home. He had no problems bonding when I had him here at the kennel but of course he was still young. I am wondering if there was to much freedom given him when he was young to the point that he has decided he is ALPHA and will not step down without a fight. As far as his aggression with small children, all of my dogs are around children when they are here withm me and I have had no incidences, so I am concerned as to why he would be aggressive towards them.

I have been advised of some minor issues with one of the other siblings, but the others have not had a problem with aggression and seem to adapt to training just fine. I don't know what kind of training methods have been used on him to this point so can't judge whether or not they were to harsh or not strong enough. If you have a 6' fence and he is getting out of it then he would have to be placed in an area that has reinforced fencing which most families don't have nor would they want to spend that much to do that.

Thank you for being honest with me and letting me know. These are things I need to hear so that I can determine whether or not I will re-breed Zakai and Molly. Neither of which have ever had any problems with training or aggression. Molly has always been easy to manage and needs very little correction. The submissive urination is something that can be corrected but it has to be done as soon as the behavior begins and continually reinforced to make sure they don't make a habit of it.

If this trainer is saying that he is a danger, than I can't possibly place him in a family environment. Who did you have evaluate him? If you had only one trainer check him out I would maybe suggest you get another opinion before making a decision to euthanize. I honestly don't think that I can comfortably re-home him if he is as dangerous as you say he is based on his evaluation.

I hate to suggest euthanization but I don't have much info to go on except what you have stated in your email to me. That's why I think it would be best to have him evaluated by a second trainer (maybe one that deals with difficult temperament issues) just to confirm the first trainer's opinion. It's certainly up to you but if you are concerned for your safety or those around you then I think you need to do what's best for you and your family. This is certainly not the type of temperament I want in my breed and if this combination is going to create this type of temperament then I need to re-evaluate my breeding between the two.

I don't know what else to tell you except that I think with the information you have given me and based on what is in the email you sent me I can't re-home him and risk another family or families. It wouldn't be fair to them nor to Gauche, because it would just set him up for failure.

If you want to speak with me feel free to give me a call. I will be home tomorrow (Sunday) most of the day.

Sincerely,
Carla Ferrier
Indian Valley Kennels
www.indianvalleykennels.com

I hope I did not read this correctly:

"Had puppy evaluated by professional trainer. Trainer found puppy not fit for a family dog related to the above cited behaviors. Puppy attempted to bite trainer. Trainer also questioned the dog as having more wolf charactristics then he should show."

WOLF characteristics? Are you insinuating this is a wolf hybrid? If so, you should have known better than to consider a wolf hybrid as a "family dog". While I agree the breeder is not any brighter for breeding and selling such canine companions, I can't believe you would purchase one. A WOLF is not a domestic companion. Anytime you mix a WOLF with a canine species there is no way to predict future behavior.