KEY BANK SCAM ON NSF CHARGES- SUSAN L CONNOR ASST. MGR & SAM MCNEIL MANAGER KEY BANK CHARGES TWICE $64 FOR EVERY ITEM AND SAM MCNEIL BRANCH MANGER EXPLAINS THAT "THEY ARE IN THIS TO MAKE A PROFIT" Boulder Colorado

Ways to avoid these NSF/OD fees:

Using an account register and reconciling that register with a monthly account statement from the bank will prevent any account holder from causing any NSF/OD fees.

The majority (if not all) of the reports I've read about NSF/OD fees have common behaviors of the account holders:

using atm cards for everyday purchases.
using more than ONE card attached to the account (husband and wife)
using atm cards for online purchases.
using atm cards for 'auto-bill pay' (autodebits)
relying upon telephone or online account balances to determine what money is available for that shopping trip to Walmart.
*NOT using an account register.


1. Use an account register and reconcile the account register with a monthly written statement generated by the bank. If the bank is not mailing statements, contact customer service to have monthly statements MAILED to you.

1a. Be aware of ATM fees, such as the 'non-bank ATM fee' that most banks charge when you use an ATM that is not owned by your bank to make a withdrawal and post that fee in your account register immediately.

1b. Also be aware of any monthly 'account service fee' charged by your bank and post that to your register on the appropriate date.

2. Do NOT GIVE bank account information (or ATM card info) to any merchant, service provider, utility, online service to pay for services and goods. Use a REAL credit card for this purpose (either secured cc or unsecured cc.) Do not setup any automatic deposit to an account that is attached to said cc-NO auto payments to CC company-mail a check each month. If the entity demanding payment makes a mistake, you're gonna have a host of problems and risk OD/NSF fees.

3. Do NOT use an ATM card for everyday expenses-USE CASH. Establish a monthly budget and withdrawal a weekly 'allowance' for every day expenses such as 'milk and bread' from the corner store, Burger King, etc. This will reduce the amount of transactions on the bank account which in turn makes RECONCILING the account and detecting ERRORS easier to accomplish. Again, if the entity demanding payment makes a mistake, you're gonna risk NSF/OD fees.

4. Do not shop with the ATM card-use a real credit card. A real credit card offers protections that you don't have with an ATM card. If the merchant/service makes a mistake, you can dispute it with the CC company WITHOUT getting any OD/NSF. Not true if you use an ATM card-if the merchant makes a mistake, your money is gone until you can convince your bank to give it back, as well as OD/NSF fees.

5. ONLY ONE ATM CARD to one account. Do NOT have 2 or more atm cards for one bank account. Having 'his and hers' ATM cards attached to the same account is the same as in the old days when some folks would have 2 checkbooks for writing checks. It was an invitation to disaster then, and it is today.

6. Verify that deposits to the account have actually cleared. Deposits can take anywhere between 1 and 5 BUSINESS days to clear depending on the type and/or source of the deposit. Deposits over $5000 can take even LONGER before they are posted to the account.

The Federal Reserve publishes a Consumer Compliance Handbook which gives detailed information about what banks can and cannot do with deposits, holds, and funds availability. You can download this handbook at http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/supmanual/cch/200711/cch200711.pdf

Follow ALL of these suggestions and you will NEVER cause an OD/NSF fee again unless it is a LEGITIMATE bank error or caused by a merchant. If it is caused by a bank error the bank will gladly and quickly rectify the situation and credit any fees generated as well as contact payees and cover any fees the payees assess to you. If the fee is caused by a merchant error, you will need to hold the merchant accountable for the fees, although in many cases the bank may reverse the fees as a courtesy.

This is a tried and true method to avoid these fees. It works EVERY TIME it's tried.

Using an account register and reconciling that register with a monthly account statement from the bank will prevent any account holder from causing any NSF/OD fees.

The majority (if not all) of the reports I've read about NSF/OD fees have common behaviors of the account holders:

using atm cards for everyday purchases.
using more than ONE card attached to the account (husband and wife)
using atm cards for online purchases.
using atm cards for 'auto-bill pay' (autodebits)
relying upon telephone or online account balances to determine what money is available for that shopping trip to Walmart.
*NOT using an account register.
*not reconciling an account register with the scheduled monthly account statement generated by the bank.

Ways to avoid these NSF/OD fees:

1. Use an account register and reconcile the account register with a monthly written statement generated by the bank. If the bank is not mailing statements, contact customer service to have monthly statements MAILED to you.

1a. Be aware of ATM fees, such as the 'non-bank ATM fee' that most banks charge when you use an ATM that is not owned by your bank to make a withdrawal and post that fee in your account register immediately.

1b. Also be aware of any monthly 'account service fee' charged by your bank and post that to your register on the appropriate date.

2. Do NOT GIVE bank account information (or ATM card info) to any merchant, service provider, utility, online service to pay for services and goods. Use a REAL credit card for this purpose (either secured cc or unsecured cc.) Do not setup any automatic deposit to an account that is attached to said cc-NO auto payments to CC company-mail a check each month. If the entity demanding payment makes a mistake, you're gonna have a host of problems and risk OD/NSF fees.

3. Do NOT use an ATM card for everyday expenses-USE CASH. Establish a monthly budget and withdrawal a weekly 'allowance' for every day expenses such as 'milk and bread' from the corner store, Burger King, etc. This will reduce the amount of transactions on the bank account which in turn makes RECONCILING the account and detecting ERRORS easier to accomplish. Again, if the entity demanding payment makes a mistake, you're gonna risk NSF/OD fees.

4. Do not shop with the ATM card-use a real credit card. A real credit card offers protections that you don't have with an ATM card. If the merchant/service makes a mistake, you can dispute it with the CC company WITHOUT getting any OD/NSF. Not true if you use an ATM card-if the merchant makes a mistake, your money is gone until you can convince your bank to give it back, as well as OD/NSF fees.

5. ONLY ONE ATM CARD to one account. Do NOT have 2 or more atm cards for one bank account. Having 'his and hers' ATM cards attached to the same account is the same as in the old days when some folks would have 2 checkbooks for writing checks. It was an invitation to disaster then, and it is today.

6. Verify that deposits to the account have actually cleared. Deposits can take anywhere between 1 and 5 BUSINESS days to clear depending on the type and/or source of the deposit. Deposits over $5000 can take even LONGER before they are posted to the account.

The Federal Reserve publishes a Consumer Compliance Handbook which gives detailed information about what banks can and cannot do with deposits, holds, and funds availability. You can download this handbook at http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/supmanual/cch/200711/cch200711.pdf

Follow ALL of these suggestions and you will NEVER cause an OD/NSF fee again unless it is a LEGITIMATE bank error or caused by a merchant. If it is caused by a bank error the bank will gladly and quickly rectify the situation and credit any fees generated as well as contact payees and cover any fees the payees assess to you. If the fee is caused by a merchant error, you will need to hold the merchant accountable for the fees, although in many cases the bank may reverse the fees as a courtesy.

This is a tried and true method to avoid these fees. It works EVERY TIME it's tried.

Sonny might be interested to know that legislation was proposed in 2007, but it died in committee. I can't say that I'm surprised since banks and politicians are very cozy.

You could always try getting in touch with your Congressperson but you would have to believe that politicians care about your best interests if you were going to take that course of action. After all, politicians only need you during the campaign season and on Election Day but the banks provide sweetheart deals year round. You tell me, where's the better deal for the average politician?

It's easier and more productive to simply manage finances with greater attention to detail. An active checking account should receive at least as much attention as a play during the baseball/basketball/football/hockey game.

I have had a checking account with Key Bank for 12 years. Yet a similar situation happened to me just the other day. I forgot to record a check which resulted in an overdraft to my account. (My fault) I had no other checks out and all debit transactions had already been subtracted from my balance. As soon as the overdraft posted to my account I went to Keybank to see what I need to do to correct my account balance. I talked to a desk person who looked at my account and told me the amount I needed to deposit in order to "settle up".

She told me that the over draft was for ONE item which left a negative $97.00 plus there would be an NSF fee of around $37.00. I gave Keybank $160 cash, which was more than enough to cover the over draft plus the NSF fee. The next day my account showed a positive balance of approx. $26.00. However, the next day there were two more overdraft fees for around $37.00 each in addition to my account being over drawn again. Yet I had not written any more checks or used my debit card. This was very confusing and made no sense.

The same bank is now telling me that the two debits that had already been deducted from my account and were not included as items in the original overdraft were now being considered as NSF as well. The two Debit transactions in question were for under $4.00 each. Key Bank electronically delt the debits from the bottom of the deck (so to speak) as to appear to try and clear my account after it was put into the negative by the larger check. Even the Key Bank rep. I orignally talked to did not see this coming. However, her supervisor would not reverse these unjust charges. Further more I had $50.00 available in overdraft protection. I was told by the supervisor that these were not covered because overdraft protection will not cover anything under $5.00

So to summerize: They put the largest items through first and if one overdraws this causes any smaller checks or debits, which were to follow, to be considered overdrafts as well. Clearing funds in this order insures that they net as many NSF fees as possible for the one mistake. However if they put the smaller checks and debits in first, more transactions would clear the account before it overdrew.

I am in the process of closing this account out. I work in a Real Estate Office and will no longer be referring anyone to Key Bank for a Home Loan. I have referred 3 out of state clients to Key Bank which resulted in them opening checking accounts. I will never refer anyone to Key Bank again. If someone responses by saying all Banks do it this way, then NSF charges need to be regulated for consumer protection.

Commercial banks are indeed in it to make a profit. How else can they afford to pay excessive bonuses like Edgeman could be making (outside of pulling from tax payer funds). Sorry Edgeman, just not sure I know anybody that would side with a big bank these days. Your post was rather unconstructive too (typical forum troll). I do agree with 1 of your points though... they did nothing illegal, but policies concerning NSF fees are quite deceptive at best. The best advice i can give anyone about how to handle this type of thing is to join a credit union... they are NON-PROFIT organizations. Why give big banks more money than what us tax payers are throwing at them. If you want to stick it to the big banks, join a credit union and spread the word.

"After verifying my available balance with Key Bank telephone banking and Key Bank online I used my Key Bank debit card over the weekend. I went over my balance by $70 because what I verified as my available balance was not actually available."

Phone and online banking are not accurate tools and you should never use them to determine your acount balance. Look at it this way, you buy gas at the pump and there is only a hold for $1 even though you pumped $22 worth of gas or the restaurant hold is only for the cost of the meal and does not include the tip that you wrote in. And how is the bank supposed to know if there are any checks or auto payments coming in?

As a responsible account holder, you must have been keeping a check register or a ledger. What did it say?



"she said that I should not rely on Key Bank telephone or online banking. That they were AND I QUOTE 'not always accurate.'"

Yep, that's what I would expect. They are not accurate for the reasons noted above. That's why you should use your own written record for your account balance.



"KEY BANK IS ACTIVELY ENGAGED IN ILLEGAL BUSINESS PRACTICES"

Not illegal at all. In fact, you agreed to those fees when you opened the account. Or did they do something else that was illegal? Are they keeping dead bodies in their vault?


"THAT YOU OR I CAN DO NOTHING ABOUT."

Of course there is something that we can do about it. I personally can't afford to pay those kinds of fees so I don't overdraft my account. That's one thing we can do about it. You can also choose not to open an account with a bank that charges those fees but that is pretty much all of them. The only bank that I know of that doesn't charge overdraft fees is in serious financial trouble.


"THEIR EMPLOYEES ARE TRAINED TO IN MANIPULATING YOUR BANK ACCOUNT SO THEY CAN, AS SAM MCNEIL PUTS IT 'MAKE A PROFIT'."

They post debits from highest to lowest, as does virtually every other bank. That doesn't force you to overdraft your account so long as you stay within your available balance.


"DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH KEY BANK UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES"

Why not?


"CONTACT BRANCH MANAGER SAM MCNEIL AT Sam_McNeill@KeyBank.com

OR ASSISTANT BRANCH MANAGER SUSAN L CONNOR AT Susan_L_Connor@KeyBank.com OR CALL HER DIRECTLY AT 720-406-6905"

Why? Do they know any good jokes?

They can't tell you whatyou have available to spend, they can only tell you the available balance at the moment you called. Any number of things can change that number, for instance, you could have a debit you made days before come in to be paid. Or an outstanding check, for that matter.

Unless you are willing to maintain your own account balance you can expect to be paying these fees fairly regularly. Why make it so easy for them?