My 3 Son's Productions My 3 Sons Productions, Canosa Catering This person is scamming actress's to come and "audition" with him for a Ben Stiller movie, once they get there he uses sexual advances, I am sure there is more! Lynnfield, Massachusetts

Wow i came across this thread and to my surprise found out in fact THIS IS ROGER DOGER from Revere. LMAO, i went to prom with him. Back in the day we would talk on the phone for hours, disco dance at the club and have a great time. Sorry to hear all these awful things, but after seeing that pic posted, i knew it was him for certain. Hope you folks find justice.

He keeps skipping on payments and court dates why is this guy still waking the streets?

Why hasn't anyone put him in jail, oh wait this is why cause no one wants to speak up! I can't do it alone! I am only 1 person lets put our heads together and get this a*s off the streets once and for all! We need to support each other during court dates if we live in the same area. We need to be heard as one and Loud. I have been fighting to put Roger in Jail sense 2007 and I am fighting hard but One person alone can't do the straight of a 100 people just not possible.

Make 2011 the Year Roger Goes to JAIL!

Thanks Maria R.

you can find him here

400 Highland Ave

Salem, Ma 01970

978-740-2711

I worked at Anna's briefly when He first opened in January 2010. The whole operation was sketchy, from his business practices to his nonschulance about his customers to his subpar recipes. I figured I'd take this oppertunity to share a few things. Firstly, as we all know, this guy is an Ultra creep. He would take videos on his phone of him having sex with random girls in the back office and then show them off proudly to the guys at work. Stranger still to me was how this sloppy greasy disgusting guy managed to get all of these amazingly good looking girls. Over the month or so that I worked there there were mumblings that he was a scam artist and a bad guy but I never quite heeded them because I needed to pay my bills. I remember on multiple occasions a cook I worked with there mentioning how Roger was set the resturant up to fail and how he was set to receive a major pay-out if it did (not sure of the particulars there) Also on more than one occasion not only did he fail to pay me on time, but then was reluctant to pay me when I questioned him about it, trying to make it seem like paying somebody 3 and a half weeks late was somehow the status quo. My major problem however was when Roger hired a new counter girl. She was petty cute and funny and such and we exchanged numbers. I called her to hang out one night and she respectfully declined which was fine by me until I came into work the next day and Roger pulled me aside and accused me of harrassing this girl. On top of which, I'd heard him prior to this, and many times after out right hitting on her (comments like "d**n you have such a tight little body" and "where'd you get an a*s like that"). She was only 17. Roger is like, 50. This dude is so messed up in the head it's sickening, I myself find a great deal of interest in crime and scandal and con artistry, and so I am fully able to look past all of that, but the way this guy operates is dangerous to his family his kids and any women he comes in contact with. He will sell people on stories of his previous successful business ventures, his semi-pro hockey career, pour on the sob story of how he had open heart surgery and any other utter CRAP you'll listen to. I'm happy to hear Anna's is out of business and I hope to god this guy either gets put behind bars or hit by a bus or something. With that said i'd also like to say that, Krystal, you're making yourself sound like an attention seeking scam artist yourself by telling everyone to call all these media outlets and "make sure you mention my name!!!" I agree with you he's a scumbag and a loser and anything I can do to help make his life worse, sign me up, however I think you're sort of hurting your own cause saying things like that. People will begin to second guess your motives, and that's the last thing you need. That's all I've got.

Hello everyone,

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

Hello Warden,

Ok, now you've stepped over the line. You call my Father who's dieing from liver cancer and leave a bunch of messages on his phone? He knows not to answer any calls from you because he knows the type of person you are. Bad luck for you that he saved the number and I have it and so will every person on this website.

You've run from me all your life so why would now be any different. Time to start running and you better find a really good hiding spot. The one above the pizza place won't work because I already know where it is. If you can "ManUp" I'll be up there pretty soon and if you have the balls we can settle this once and for all.

As I said before you can put my name up on a billboard on the Mass Pike. I have nothing to hide like you. You've been doing this for so many years to so many people I'm really surprised you're still alve. Your time is coming and if you don't think I won't find you think again.

As I said on the last letter the clock is ticking and now you've got the worst person you could ever imagine coming after you ad there's nothing you can do. 

     Yeah, the clock is ticking for you Rog. I don't care if you put my name and address up on a billboard on the Mass Pike I have nothing to hide like you. This is your sick way of getting the attention you never got when you were growing up. So now you sit at(a computer at your local library)because all your utilities are either turned off or they found out you had them in other peoples names.

     It's all on these pages. These people aren't wrong in what they're writing about you and you know it. I don't take pride in saying I know you better than anybody but when I found out you're doing these things to these people the good part of me said "Stop him before he does it to someone else." And now I'm gonna.

     Yeah, I've done things in my past that I regret but let's take a look at the things Roger wants to say I've done. I've never broken into a friend of mines house, ever. Rog remember I left the key to my house outside so my girlfriend could get in? Then over the next few weeks all types of things started to dissapear from my house. I never blamed you but I ended up going to your mother's house where you were staying at the time and you left your bedroom for a minute and low and behold in your closet were the things taken from my house. I should have bashed your head in on the spot but I pick my spots and knew your time was going to come.

    Look up Roger through Lynn Public Records and see that he was convicted in 1983 of Unarmed Robbery of a 80 year old woman with injuries to her. Look up in Revere Public Records, this would be anywhere from 1977-1981 he was convicted of Burglery and Breaking and Entering. I'm sure there's probably a lot more especially in Revere. This is why there's no way all these people would go out of their way to slander you. How many upset ex-girlfriends could you have?

     I know how you think so I'm sure you're on to your next scam. It's only a matter of time before the police find you and you know it but this once again is just a game to you that you think you won't get caught at but you will. I can't believe that I once thought of you as a friend and everyone else that was your friend feels the same way.

     When I sent them to Ripoff Report to see all these things they believed everything. Why wouldn't they. This is you. So now you sit there day after day looking to see what other people are writing about you. Hopefully for your sake you'll have some internet access in prison. Attempted Rape, Fraud and probably a few other ones we don't know about.

     You had a church get you a car and donations for you and your kids because you were sick and trying to raise your two kids on your own. The only place you were sick is where you've always been sick and that's in your head. A church goes out and does this for you while you're out ripping people off thousands of dollars with your phoney catering business. Did you ever think there might be "other" people out there that really could of used the help, that weren't ripping people off and realy were trying to raise their kids on their own. I can't believe that Cheryl would even let you have those kids but then again you're such a great "role model." That's just three more lives you've screwed up to add to your list.

     Everyone get's what's coming to them, you've just been able to duck and avoid everything all our life. It's amazing that you've been able to go this long being the way you are and never having to pay your debt to society. Like I said....the clock is ticking. Don't close your eyes to go to sleep because that noise you just heard just might be....

"DarkDefender" & "Nailhisasstothewall" are the same people and that person is a really bad guy hiding in Florida named Randy Interbartolo who used to live in Revere Mass and is now a wanted guy by the Wiseguys up north for being a known rat.  Randy robbed his grandmothers social security checks and even forged her name to withdraw money from her bank account.  Randy was involved in a big credit card scam in the early 80's but charges were dropped because he gave names of some wiseguys.  He used to do "purse-snatching" of elderly women and was convicted of it but was let off because of the credit card scam.  He has several friends from the 80's who would slap him silly for robbing their houses before he took off.  That being said I would not believe anything out of his mouth, no matter what you may think of this Roger guy I would form your own opinion because most of this seems to be angry ex-girlfriends or ex-employees.  If this was all true this guy would have been in jail by now so I go by the old saying, believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.........

Why is this man is not a registered sex offender?  Krystal Kernville clearly gave police enough information to show cause. He perpetuated his plan and carried it out with great detail. He would still be at his game were it not for Ms. Kernville. He put into action his plan and set the stage for women to enter. We may never know how far he went with other women. Criminal history has shown for years that all rapist and murders start off slow and evolve.  I suspect Haunted could shed light on early criminal behavior. What type of environment was this man brought up in? Who were his influences? Who did he hang out with as a child and later as a young man? These type of men cant stay inactive for very long, and at some point he will come up with a better plan of luring in women. What will be different the next time is that hes already on the police radar . . . he wont be able to leave lose ends that will report his behavior to the police.  Be very careful.

You"re exactly right with your "spill it and the truth will set you free" remark but I think if everyone came out with everything he's done to people over all these years this page would go on and on. What happened between me and him dates back to the early eighties and for all intent and purposes is over and done. It affects me and only me. The most important thing right now is that he's stopped from doing anything to anybody ever again. It amazes me that someone can rip people off thousands of dollars and nothing can be done about it. This wasn't Petty Theft it's Grand Theft and last I checked Grand Theft carries a long prison sentence especially with multiple charges. I can only blame the Police for this. They feel it's between Roger and the people he took the money from so let it be handled in Small Claims Court and Roger knows this. The worst thing that would happen to him is the Judge would put a judgment against him and he doesn't care about that because in the end he won. Which brings us to the Phony Movie Producer Scam. I don't think he really sat down and thought about the consequences when he planned it. He probably thought if these girls were spending their own money to fly to Boston and they actually went through with everything he told them to do they'd be too embarrassed to come forward or he has something he's holding over their heads so they won't. Until Krystal K. If it wasn't for this girl this would all probably still be going on and no one would know anything about it. I admire her determination. The one thing I worry about is what he's up to now. Ripping people's money off never surprised me because I knew he was capable of it. I never imagined he'd do what he did to these women and it most definitely could of escalated. Roger's a Sociopath. He's the Joker without the makeup and the intelligence. Once I started looking at all of this it didn't take me long to find something he'd written about me. Roger I hope you are reading this and I also hope you know it's me. At first I was just sitting back looking at all of this and shaking my head. Now you've pissed me off. Hopefully for your sake you are in jail but if you're not you better grow eyes in the back of your head and a very big rock to climb under. To be continued............. 

"One in particular about what he did when we were growing up that still haunts me to this day".

So tell us, what event haunts you to this day? Don't waste the time of people who are trying to bring justice down on this bottom feeder. Your evasive and totally non-informative post is useless. Do you really care what Mark Willis (oops, Roger Williamson) thinks about you should he read this?  Spill it and the truth shall set you free.  Or maybe you are Roger Williamson fishing for information on what the police have on you.  

Boy are you people gonna love me. I grew up with Roger. Met him when I was in the 5th grade. I moved from Boston back in the mid eighties but we carried on our friendship?? by phone. Over the next few years we lost contact but he'd always track me down and try to re-kindle our friendship. I won't lie. We had great times growing up as kids but every once in a while he'd pull these stunts like you wouldn't believe. Things I'd literally want to kill him for but in the end he'd weasel his way out of it. I'm sure many times he felt like he won but by doing these "things" all he'd really be doing was making me the wiser so he couldn't or wouldn't try it again. I may sound like I'm going on and on about this but I felt that if I didn't write this way you wouldn't have a bit of Roger's background and be able to know exactly how he ticks. I also am no angel but to read these reports it's almost like "I can't believe it but wait a minute...that's Roger. Anyway, I know I've spoken to Maria by e-mail but lost contact with her last year. I told her some unbelievable stories, one in particular about what he did when we were growing up that still haunts me to this day. These reports show me how far Roger's willing to go and I honestly don't know why he hasn't been arrested and put in jail. What I'm going to do is put my e-mail up here so if anyone wants any info I have they can contact me. He'll probably know it's me on here anyway but "Come on Roger, you gotta stop this."

Roger Williamson has NO money.

Hogwash. The actual fact is that he does have money, but you'll never be able prove this fact because he can only operate in a cash only environment.  He always kept a roll of money in his pocket and paid for everything in cash. Banks are out of the question because the Department of Revenue has his social security number flagged for non-payment of child support.  Any funds that come to light will be automatical seized.  He will talk your ear off about his former model exwife and how she pulled a fast one with the courts to take the child out of MA to go live somewhere down south. Anyone who has dated him knows he hates the mother of his youngest son and refuses to pay her child support.  He says he loves his son, but whatever the circumstances he wont help to support the child.  So add deadbeat dad to the list.    I really felt sorry for him because he lost his son, but now I can see that this was the best move for the child.  Could you imagine him as a role model?  Hey son let's pretend to be movie producers and see how many women we can get to sleep with us. 

Roger Williamson has NO money.  I also believe that he is not receiving state aid at the moment because of fraud?  Not positive on that one.  

After over two years of being very patient, Maria will get her day in court yet again. The hearing could be very interesting considering his circumstances with the D.A., the Boston Police Department, the Department of Revenue, as well as the Wakefield Police Department. Maria our thoughts are with you and please post the outcome of the hearing on January 21st.

 

WARNING: All Boston area hospitals have been put on alert that Mr. Williamson has a court date on the 21st and that he may show up in their emergency room on the evening of the 20th complaining of some life threatening illness. Currently bets are being taking on one of the following. Mr. Williamson will seek medical attention to postpone the hearing, or that the money will be paid in full and settled before the scheduled hearing makes it into a court room. Considering his troubles of late, would it be wise to walk into a court room?

Maria,

January 21st 2010 at 8:30am at the Chelsea Distric Court.

Thats a day he is scheduled to show up for court for Ripping off My husband and I during our wedding.

I am very Happy I did this ripped off report back in 2007 cause now all his victums can find ways to find him and find help.

 

Trust me all of you when I say.... I WILL NOT STOP until the day I die on hunting this son of a b***h down, and making sure he pays or he himself is no longer able to move! I have called Det. DiNanno, he has mad it aware to me hew is no longer handling this case that it is in fact Det. O'Donnell!  Also Det. Donald Brown 617-343-4571 from the Boston P.D. I URGE you to send your stories in FULL to Dateline Email:  Jennifer Sherwood (((Redacted)))  Please tell her that you are a part of the Roger Williamson story first brought to her by Krystal K E N V I L L E. The more stories she gets, the better chance of this ending up on national news.  She has received my story, which is extensive as you can see, and two others.  Also go to Oprah.com, click on the Oprah Winfrey show, the click on Be on the Show, then click on Where in the world should we go next or any of her topics and put your story.  Please be sure to let them know that this person has been brought to their attention before and mention my name! The more we get this out there the better.  WE CANNOT STOP, never let it go, never give up!  Think about our own daughters or ANYONE we care about!  We should not allow this to continue to hurt anyone else.  We need to do this for ourselves.  I will do this alone, but it would be so much better with your help, and rewarding to have you with me! I also please please urge you to find me.  I know this site erases names, numbers, etc.  But the clues I can give you to find me: 1.  Go to Youtube and search for the Fox news Boston videos that say actress and phony producer, my 3 sons productions.  You will here my full name! 2.  Look up Krystal in Gorham Maine on Facebook, my picture at the moment is black and white 3.  (((Redacted))) in my website 4.  Our film space website, look for Krystal in Maine YOU CAN FIND ME, we CAN connect, we need to.  We will win with numbers, I have more to tell, so do you!  We can get this done, we CAN put him away, it just perseverance, knowledge, drive, and strong-headed women that WILL NOT let this piece of s**t continue, and HE IS STILL AT IT~ I cannot wait to hear from all of you, Krystal

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

I don't know what to comment on this report.  Why aren't they able to track this guy with all of the information everyone has on him?  If there is a case being put together against him then why is this all being plastered all over the internet?

Contact: Detective Sgt. Richard DiNanno of the Wakefield Police at 781-246-6328 as he has his own investigation going also

Contact: The Assistant D.A's info 120 broadway in Chelsea, Ma 02150 A.D.A. MaryRose Anthes 617-884-2200

This Man needs to be stop and everyone needs to call in and help out no matter how sad or gross your relationship was with Roger Williamson and the million names now he may go by. if you knew him by Business or Personal it needs to come out so another person doesn't get Burned like the rest of us.

Thank you

Krystal -

Keep up the good work -

The "Medical Issues"?  He'll check himself into the hospital before he ever sees the inside of a courtroom - you can practically guarrantee that.

In the {unlikely} event that he IS brought into court - he will have "an attack" of some sort and need to be transported out via ambulance. ANYTHING to avoid a case actually being heard all the way through.

I wish you well, keep it up, don't let up, and hopefully you and BPD will bring the hammer down on the very slippery Roger Williamson.

Many people are cheering for you.

This is the type of man that shamelessly exploits anything and everything, and nothing stops him.  You've read his divorce file in Essex county... so you know.

Peace 

Krystal -

Keep up the good work - reach out to the DA's office, and seek out "Maria" who has a capias on Roger for fraud.

The "Medical Issues"?  He'll check himself into the hospital before he ever sees the inside of a courtroom - you can practically guarrantee that.

In the {unlikely} event that he IS brought into court - he will have "an attack" of some sort and need to be transported out via ambulance. ANYTHING to avoid a case actually being heard all the way through.

I wish you well, keep it up, don't let up, and hopefully you and BPD will bring the hammer down on the very slippery Roger Williamson.

Many people are cheering for you.

This is the type of man that shamelessly exploits anything and everything, and nothing stops him.  You've read his divorce file in Essex county... so you know.

Peace 

This happened to me too!  I live in Wyoming and saw this casting call on StarNow.com.  He said I had the "look" and I needed to get to Boston ASAP cuz they were recasting the role of "Samantha".  "Mark" claimed the girl that originally was cast was named Victoria and she is 22-23 and found at she has breast cancer and had to pull out of the role.  He claimed she was so great that they signed her for $150000.00 and gave her a $50000 sign on bonus.  I have ALWAYS wanted to be a "movie star" but have never pursued it.  I found this on the internet, he responded, I talked to him on the phone and there were SO MANY red flags, but I just wanted it to be real...I booked a roundtrip ticket this last Friday 09/18/2009 and flew out 09/19/2009 just to do the "audition" and came home 09/20/2009.  This guy is a disgusting loser.  I wish I would've listened to all my instincts and friends and family and could've saved myself about $2000 that I don't have.  I would love to tell him he owes me this money or I'm going to sue him...I have emailed 48 hours, Dateline, Primetime, MASS Film.  This guy is so gross.  I googled his name and found a Mark Willis that was a camera operator on a bunch of movies since the early 90's, he had told me this was his first movie, so that made sense.  I just re-googled him today and have now found ALL of this information...I just wish I would've waited a few days and been able to see all of this.  This is long, but here is my story...
I recently joined an online casting network www.starnow.com .  I put pictures of myself on there, applied to several casting calls and got an email from a guy saying I had the look for a certain role and could I get to Boston for an audition.  We communicated through StarNow for a couple of days and spoke on the phone.  He sounded so legitmate and nice and kept talking about this movie role for a movie called "She's Out There".  I am usually SO much smarter then I behaved in the last few days.  Within a few days of receiving his first message I was on a plane to Boston from Wyoming.  He claims his name is Mark Willis (actually thinking about it now, he never even told me his last name, I found it when I googled the movie name) with My Three Sons Productions.  I get to Boston, he has me meet him in downtown Boston at Fanuel Hall (spelling unknown), it was about 6:30pm.  There were a lot of people around and I felt weird but okay.  I thought other "movie" people would have been with him but it was just him...It's like he was just waiting for it to get dark, cuz he wanted to show me downtown boston...he didn't really show me anything, this guy loves to talk himself up, he also told me the story of helping a lady who was getting beat up and how he had a heart attack in the middle of it and had to have open heart surgery...on the phone he claimed he couldn't say who the "big name actor" was but then slipped up and told me in person that it was Ben Stiller and that the Farrely Brothers were part of this too...totally name dropping...he was like "oh, man I can't believe I just told you that". THEN...when it's super dark outside he says lets read your lines, so he takes me to edge of town (still walking) and there is hardly a person around and we read the script together.  THEN...he tells me I need to get into character and act the role and forget about reading it.  He takes me to a parking garage and tells me the elevator we are in is the same one going to be used for this scene and the top of the parking garage is where they are doing the "car scene".  He even tries to tell me that this 3 story parking garage has "the best views in Boston"...I think he was trying to waste time cuz there were people up there...He takes me to the top of this parking garage and thankfully there were some teenagers at the other end of it...so he takes me to an empty stairwell and says this is where they have been doing the auditions and they sit on the stairs and do the restaurant scene and then do the elevator scene.  I have NEVER done this before and I didn't know what to do or if this was right or anything, so I went along with it.  The scene calls for the girl to rub "ben stiller's" leg, kiss him, have sex with him in the elevator, go down on him in the restaurant.  This Mark Willis expected me to do ALL of that and make it as real as possible "auditioning" for a role of course...he even told me at one point, "leave my sweater on, but everything below the belt is free game"...I tried doing the restuarant scene and was rubbing on his leg and felt SO UNCOMFORTABLE and SO GROSS!! So, he said okay let's do the elevator part...he was starting to breathe heavy and sweat and that creeped me out even more, and that's when he said the "everything below the belt" line.  I just looked at him and said "i can't do this" and he's like "you flew all the way out here from Wyoming wanting to be an actress and you can't even kiss me!?!?" I was completely disgusted with myself, we left together and he made some comments about "what company do you work for? is this a sting operation?" that kind of stuff.    I feel so dirty and disgusted with myself.  This man is disgusting and gross and should be in jail.  All I can think is that girls who've never done this before either do everything he tells them because they are auditioning for a $100000 role and he gets a free lap dance, hand job, whatever else and then probably tells them, "no, you're not what were looking for".  There was no other person involved in the "movie" around.  This man should be behind bars.  Like I said before, I am such a smart girl, even though alot of red flags were raised, I just kept thinking "what if it's real?" and even if there is a movie and this is just the directors way of doing this, it's wrong.  I really think he needs to be brought to the public eye. 

I wanted to let you know what happened with the "Ben Stiller" movie, and hopefully you can be aware for others in our industry about this. I am a bit embarrassed that I allowed this to happen, but happen it did. I am now in the process of filing charges after tho officers in both states get ll of their information, and suing! Stay tuned..............~K

And so my fight begins:
Boston-Gorham Case- Krystal K
From: Krystal K (((Redacted)))
Sent: Mon 9/14/09 7:52 AM
To: bfrank@gorham.me.us

Frank,

THANK YOU so much for looking into this and listening! Sorry this is so long, just wanted to get as much information out as possible, I will send you the texts in a separate email shortly!

Kind Regards,

Krystal K

From: (((Redacted)))
To: rshepard@gorham.me.us; csanborn@gorham.me.us
Subject: I wish to file this statement! Thank you for your time..
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 07:22:50 -0700

Good Morning,

I have called the Boston P.D. about this considering it happened in Boston. But because I live in Gorham, Me. they informed me that I have to file with you first, and then you will send it to them. This is my full statement, with as much information as possible, minus my text msgs, which I have here. I need to do this as soon as possible, I would appreciate any help that you can give me.

Sincerely,

Krystal K

--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Krystal K wrote:

From: Krystal K
Subject: ATTENTION: Mr. Edward Davis, Boston Police Commissioner, (Statement concerning "My 3 Sons Productions, Mark R. Willis")
Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 6:45 AM

Mr. Edward Davis, Commissioner, (I have not heard ONE word back from the Boston Police Department)

I need to file a statement regarding this. My name is Krystal K and I believe I have a serious problem on my hands and a responsibility. It is very difficult for me to get there, so I wanted to sent this off to your station, and I will also call tomorrow to speak with someone about this. I live in Gorham, ME. So I will need to know the appropriate action to take from here, and I know at this point that the sooner the better.

On August 11, I met "Mark R. Willis, My 3 Son's Productions, for a meeting/audition. When I spoke with him on the phone two days earlier, he had said that the roles of Amanda, and Samantha needed to be re-cast immediately for various reason's. So I decided to meet with him on that Tuesday. He instructed me to meet him outside of the Hard Rock Cafe in downtown Boston, near Quincy Market. I did so, meeting in public, we went upstairs at Quincy Market and sat on a bench to discuss the roles and what would be required.

For Amanda, who's character is comically abusive to her husband for 20 years apparently was not the right character for me he said as soon as I saw him. He felt it much more fitting to have me audition for Samantha, a lawyer by day, seductress by night. We discussed things for about a half hour longer, then he said we should go to the roof of the Fanhuiel Parking Garage to rehearse a bit, "out of the way of to many people". There were still plenty of people, but as soon as someone was out of site enough, he asked me to start rehearsing an elevator role, that I would be doing with "Ben Stiller", seducing him! Well, I did start to at least grab his hand, whisper in the ear, and grab his face.

However, he kept asking me to act the role like I wanted to be in the movie more than anything. I stopped and asked what he meant, he said look I have been rehearsing with girls for months and I have only seen one girl who did this well enough to get cast, and then for some reason she had to drop out.

So essentially he wanted me to make it as believable as possible. I decided to give it another try, but I