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Report: #451428

Complaint Review: Ranger Bass Boats - Ranger Boats MFG - Genmar Inc - Irwin Jacob - Randy Hopper - Nationwide

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  • Reported By: Tampa Florida
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  • Ranger Bass Boats - Ranger Boats MFG - Genmar Inc - Irwin Jacob - Randy Hopper P.O.Box179 Nationwide U.S.A.

Ranger Bass Boats - Ranger Boats MFG - Genmar Inc - Irwin Jacob - Randy Hopper All Ranger Dealers I Ignored all the handbills, and I ignored all the 'Bad' Consumer Reports, that I myself Researched on the Web. Big Mistake! Flippin Nationwide Dealers Flippin, Arkansas Tampa Florida

*Author of original report: WELL TO DAN AND DAVE AND ALL THESE OTHER PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELIEVE!!

*Consumer Comment: Another Fake! FYI, Genmar is Ranger, You condone liars you are one! Let's Test Jacobs Intergrity!

*Consumer Comment: Another Fake! FYI, Genmar is Ranger, You condone liars you are one! Let's Test Jacobs Intergrity!

*UPDATE Employee: Warrantys

*Consumer Comment: GENMAR & rANGER are Theifs! I have Altered and Fraudulent Documents they used to cheat me!!!

*Consumer Comment: GENMAR & rANGER are Theifs! I have Altered and Fraudulent Documents they used to cheat me!!!

*Consumer Comment: GENMAR & rANGER are Theifs! I have Altered and Fraudulent Documents they used to cheat me!!!

*Consumer Comment: GENMAR & rANGER are Theifs! I have Altered and Fraudulent Documents they used to cheat me!!!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Dave your wrong! Ranger and Genmar are Crooks and Liars!

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Ask a Ranger OWNER - J.D. Powers

*Consumer Comment: Funny 'Genmar Dave'

*Consumer Comment: Interesting

*Author of original report: Dave get your facts Straight!

*Author of original report: COPY OF E-MAIL FROM THE SO CALLED "FORUMS" ADMISTRATOR

*Author of original report: COPY OF E-MAIL FROM THE SO CALLED "FORUMS" ADMISTRATOR

*Author of original report: COPY OF E-MAIL FROM THE SO CALLED "FORUMS" ADMISTRATOR

*Author of original report: COPY OF E-MAIL FROM THE SO CALLED "FORUMS" ADMISTRATOR

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Unrighteous Indignation

*Author of original report: Response to Dave of Genmar

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Warranty issues I've seen handled by Genmar

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I placed a deposit on A Ranger Z21, 5 1/2 weeks ago. I was told delivery time was 2-3 weeks. The boat still hasn't arrived, after several calls to the dealer, all of which ended in more excuses. I wanted the boat prior to the spring fishing season, and my Salesman and the Manager promised I would have it. Now my scheduled Vacation has come and gone with "no boat" thanks to the lies I was told. I decided to contact Ranger directly.

I performed a quick search while at work on the web for the ph number. Instead I came across almost three hundred Consumer Complaints against Ranger Boats, on multiple Websites. I contacted my sales rep and asked about it and was told it was a "stunt" by the new Boat Co. Legend. My sales rep and I discussed all the complaints and I explained they all came from different individuals.

After close to an hour and a half of talks my Rep. finally admitted the truth. The truth was he was not sure of the cause, but was told Ranger had a history of swindling customers, on purchases, repos, and repairs, and one customer refuses to let them get away with it. Ranger mfg. refused to admit its wrong doing, and never thought it would suffer such a sales loss from the bad publicity, and takes extreme 'Action' against any Dealer who complains about the loss of sales it is causing, from Rangers shady dealings with customers. Apparently Ranger has a History of illegal activities, used to cover sponsorship costs.

My Sales rep has worked at the Ranger Dealer for 11 yrs and states Ranger sales prior to the economy downfall, had been down almost 70% from the bad consumer reports and the one individual protest. My rep says he has personally seen on avg 3 customers a yr swindled at his dealership alone. He firmly believes Ranger will be bankrupt in the next 3 yrs from this one protest.

Sales persons are instructed to blame Legend boats, and other co. to hurt their sales, and dismiss the bad reports.

With the thought of all the Bad reports and the fact Ranger is going to be Bankrupt in 3 yrs, not to mention the Lies I was told at time of purchase. I informed My salesman that none of this was disclosed to me, and since my discovery of the Facts that I was canceling my order and wanted my deposit back. After being placed on hold the Manager came on the ph and informed me he had canceled my order, but was keeping my $10,000.00 deposit as it was nonrefundable. As I started to speak he hung up the ph!

I then contacted Ranger Boats in Arkansas. After shuffling me around to a dozen people, a man came on the ph claiming he was upper management, but refused to give his name. I explained my problem, and the facts and lies I was told. I asked about the reports online, and how I get my money back because of them.

This is his response recorded, ver batem: "Ranger business practices are our business and no one else's! Our dealings with our customers may be viewed as shady and illegal by some, we don't see it as such. If customers don't like it, too bad, we already have their money. How we conduct ourselves is OUR business, not yours, if you don't like it, take your business else where, your deposit is ours! We are keeping it! Don't call here again you SON OF A B****! And hung up on me, and I'm their customer.

Pretty much says it all. I guess, just as my sales rep said "most people only buy 1 ranger in a lifetime", so they have no need to keep a customer happy. Ranger never plans on a Repeat customer! Explains it all.

I am currently hiring a lawyer to get my deposit back. I never understood all the flyer's being passed out. I do now.

Do No business with Ranger Boats.

Tj
Tampa, Florida
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 05/13/2009 09:46 AM and is a permanent record located here: https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ranger-bass-boats-ranger-boats-mfg-genmar-inc-irwin-jacob-randy-hopper/nationwide/ranger-bass-boats-ranger-boats-mfg-genmar-inc-irwin-jacob-randy-hopper-all-ranger-451428. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year. Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report. READ: Foreign websites steal our content

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
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#20 Author of original report

WELL TO DAN AND DAVE AND ALL THESE OTHER PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELIEVE!!

AUTHOR: Tj - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, June 11, 2009

ENCLOSED ARE SOME PRESS RELEASES FROM IRWIN JACOBS OF GENMAR, AND RANDY HOPPER OF RANGER.

FIRST, Now lets all be clear the economy is down! But there are also 100's of thousands of Co's still surviving.

As we have all stated in our complaints Genmar and Ranger could not keep screwing people and get away with it. GENMAR FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY! ROFLMAO! THAT IS JUST TOO FUNNY. It's obvious Irwin Jacobs and Genmar did not take up the offer given to Dan, and settle any problem or one of these "Fakes" would be on here bragging.

Now realistically the truth is any Co. that has loyal customers is NOT going to suffer from a down economy. People are still spending money but with Co.'s they trust. If Ranger and Genmar, namely Irwin Jacobs and Randy Hopper had taken care of the customer, they would have loyal consumers. Just a simple Google of them for complaints shows the sheer number of Cheated Customers. You reap what you sow! Records show they are Crooked Co.'s that employ Liars, Swindlers, Frauds and Cheats, and this post shows also Fakes! I believe they are getting what they deserve and I hope they go under.

So Dan why didn't you mention the Bankruptcy in your post??

Everyone we need to all send our complaints and any others found on the web to the Bankruptcy Judge as customers and whats called a friend of the court brief ( letter form is fine, my atty says it appropriate) and request the Judge force them into Liquidation and not allow them to continue as proof shows the Co. to be Crooks, and Liars. I will post the mailing info on here asap.

I know everyone on the web reporting the liars is what has caused the public to shy away from Ranger and Genmar. But I place all the Credit on the man who has protested them for 20 yrs now with Flyer's and Billboards. He SUCCEDED! Great respect is due you, sheer determination, and dedication to expose them for what they are. YOU SHOULD BE PROUD! You are a true giant slayer.

Irwin Jacobs in his statement (pasted below) says even up till last month he would have never guessed he would have to file for bankruptcy. HA HA HA, maybe he should have checked the web, or listened to a complaint.

FYI Ranger was facing Bankruptcy when Genmar bought them, They are good as done as well.

Too all you loyal employee's of Ranger and Genmar. You all knew what was going on. You ALL are just as Guilty. GOOD LUCK AT THE UNEMPLOYMENT OFFICE, AND SOUP KITCHEN YOU CROOKS!



COPIED OFF THE WEB::

Announcing that his company had filed for bankruptcy, Genmar Holdings chairman and CEO Irwin Jacobs noted that previous economic downturns "do not even remotely resemble" anything close to what has taken place in the industry during the last year.

Genmar, the country's second-largest boatbuilder, filed Monday for Chapter 11 reorganization protection in U.S. bankruptcy court in Minnesota. The filings were made by Genmar Holdings and its 21 subsidiaries.
Minneapolis-based Genmar Holdings has approximately 1,500 employees in five manufacturing centers.

The company builds 15 boat brands, including the recently introduced FinCraft, which are sold worldwide through its approximately 1,100 dealers.

Brands include Carver, Four Winns, Glastron, Hydra Sports, Larson, Ranger, Triumph and Wellcraft.

The debtors intend to file a motion for joint administration of their Chapter 11 cases.

According to court documents, Genmar's board of directors decided May 29 that it was in the best interest of the company to file for Chapter 11.

"If someone would have said to me as recently as even one month ago that Genmar would someday be filing for Chapter 11, I would have said it was not even a remote possibility," Jacobs said in a statement.

"I've always looked for ways to enhance Genmar's balance sheet and felt that, even though business conditions were incredibly difficult, there were alternatives available," he added. "Unfortunately, I didn't have the necessary time to complete any of the alternative financing acceptable to the banks."

Jacobs did not immediately return a call for comment this morning.

In his statement, Jacobs said Genmar has access to sufficient cash and has current assets available to support its ongoing business and pay its vendor suppliers on future purchases.

The company has received a commitment for a Debtor-in-Possession financing proposal from Wells Fargo and Fifth Third banks that will be submitted to the court for approval, Jacobs said.

"Additionally, in the first court hearing, Genmar will be asking the bankruptcy court for approval to allow Genmar to pay appropriate dealer warranty and rebate claims," he added.

Genmar has more than $100 million in current assets, as well as additional fixed assets and intangible assets that will allow the company to come through this, Jacobs said in his statement.

According to court documents, Genmar Holdings has between 100 and 199 creditors, between $10 million and $50 million in estimated assets, and $100 million to $500 million in estimated liabilities.

In the list of creditors holding the 20 largest unsecured claims, Minneapolis law firm Maslon, Edelman, Borman, Brand is listed as the largest, with a claim of $186,690. Other creditors include additional law firms, Deloitte Tax, PricewaterhouseCoopers, Statistical Surveys and Google.

Jacobs said he plans to reorganize and come out of Chapter 11 "as a stronger and better company." The company will submit its overall reorganization plan for approval to the court as soon as possible.
Genmar has until Sept. 29 to file its Chapter 11 plan with the court, documents show.

TOO DAVE AND DAN AND ALL WHO CAN'T SEEM TO FIND THE OTHER COMPLAINTS
BELOW ARE JUST A FEW COMMENTS I PULLED OFF THE WEB TODAY



26 June, 03 2009, 07:46 AM By D. Williams
Mr. Jacobs sure knows how to play the media!! I was a vendor for many years and knew how he played the game. Year after year of coming back to the vendors and asking for concessions, beating them down with competitors quotes, etc. I feel for all of the current vendors who have to deal with this in already trying times. Did not expect this bankruptcy but yet not surprised.

25 June, 02 2009, 04:52 PM By capt dave
Although this is a bad day for the boating industry i feel no compasionfor Jacobs. I was also a large Wellcraft dealer that was owed thousands of dollars in warranty and never got paid. I was also forced out of business by having to keep so much inventory on hand and most of that had problems from the factory as well. Jacobs never thought of his dealers unless they were the few mega dealers that he touted. He will come out and all the suppliers and little guys will take the hit for him. It is a shame the industry is in this bad way.

24 June, 02 2009, 04:43 PM By George
I don't feel a bit sorry for this egotistical creep, but its too bad for all the employees and suppliers. When I was a Lund dealer this guy did absolutely nothing to help me when business went souer; only went and gave the dealership to a competitor down the road, and then some more competitors when the succeeding dealers dropped of the map.

When I asked him about warranty isses at MRAA, he sternly put his hand on my shoulder in a dramatic way and said "Son, let me tell you..." At 40 years old I did not appreciate his banter, reared back and asked him "Who the hell do you think you're talking to??" End of conversation.

After being in bankruptcy and experiencing it first-hand, anything can happen in and out of the courtroom. I hope he goes in there and puts on his cocky act. No federal judge or trustee could care less about him.

If any dealer is contimplating bankruptcy, my advice is don't do it for many reasons. Work it out in another fashion as the lawers will deceive and drain you of your last dime


22 June, 02 2009, 01:41 PM By Former Genmar insider
I am Happy for Mr. Jacobs. What goes around comes around. Unfortunately he will come out of it better. As another post said he will stick all his vendors with his debt and force them out of business. Vendors that he already put the screws to to be a vendor.

Maybe all the companies he bought solely to keep them at bay and to extinguish his competition are a factor. If he would of just left them to prosper and supported them to help expand their business he would have had a better bottomline. He screwed many loyal customers, dealers and employees over the past few years. I for one could only hope that he looses but he wont. All I know is that since I have left the Genmar family and the brand, the brand is nearly extinct. which was one of the only territories meeting or exceeding sales goals.

We could only hope he goes away, good riddens!

21 June, 02 2009, 12:22 PM By Ole Boat Builder
Something we all have to remember, in a chapter 11, the filer now has the opportunity to continue business while they negotiate their debt with their hundreds of suppliers who have been hit just as hard by the collapse of the boating industry.

Genmar will probably negotiate a 10-20 cents on the dollar settlement with many of their suppliers, throwing the burden on all of the suppliers to absord the hit that Genmar created.

Many of these suppliers will now either fail or have to declare bankruptcy simply to survive. The ripple effect continues on down the ladder, while Genmar, now free of a major part of its' debt comes out smelling like a rose!

Don't telll me that this hasn't been planned for a long time!


19 June, 02 2009, 11:24 AM By Lund Dealer
I've had the pleasure of dealing one-on-one with Irwin Jacobs and found him to be a heartless egomaniac, with absolutely no consideration for his dealers. I hope he develops an appetite for crow.


14 June, 02 2009, 10:20 AM By Been_there_Done_that
This is a very joyous day for my family and myself! You see, we were a large Genmar dealership that hit some hard times financially and reached out to Irwin for help. He, in turn, had me speak with Roger Cloutier. I was forced to file for Chapter 11 protection and was told, by Cloutier, that it was OUR problem and they refused to help. Soon after every vendor that we dealt with refused to sell us product, even COD! We were unable to do warranty work or even rig sold boats without the needed products. We were unable to do any repairs and were ultimately forced to file Chapter 7 and liquidate. Genmar refused to pay us warranty monies owed and wouldn't send us our earned rebates. I pray that this exact same thing happens to Genmar. I hope that both Irwin and Roger feel the pain and shame of business failure! Keep in mind, we were one of Genmar's largest dealership and they just shrugged us off. For the very first time, today I believe in karma! If Genmar showed the slightest bit of compassion, we'd probably still be in business. They didn't, and now I wish them the same exact fate!


13 June, 02 2009, 10:14 AM By A Williams
Given Irwin's lofty comments in his recent industry interview he is either completely out of touch with his business or a complete blowhard. Either way he should be the first one to go in a Chapter 11 reorg, a la Rick Wagoner at GM.

8 June, 02 2009, 09:23 AM By former genmar dealer
The day of reckoning has finally recognized Irwin Jacobs who we all know would turn his back on any dealer that he felt would become a problem. Loyalty is a word he does not understand.I hope for all the families he will affect that he becomes a little more humble and his failure is due to his inability to surround himself with the right staff and listen to them and stay remote from control

THIS IS ALL THE STUFF DAVE AND DAN CLAIM IS NOT HAPPENING!!!!
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#19 Consumer Comment

Another Fake! FYI, Genmar is Ranger, You condone liars you are one! Let's Test Jacobs Intergrity!

AUTHOR: R. West - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, June 04, 2009

Well I had to chime in here, ole Dan and Dave both live in a fantasy world. Odd Dan left 'No Way' for any one to get in contact. I do believe that's ole Irwin faking again!

Dan so you know that line doesn't work. We have all been put through the stall tactics machine of Ranger and Genmar. The only reason you want all the documents is to see what they have, and how you can cover it up. Some as long as 20 yrs.

And if you believe Mr. Jacobs is so 'upstanding' then have a talk with him. He should know of all of the customers that have problems with Ranger. If he cared you would not need 'us' to contact you, Mr. Jacobs would know of it, and ' MAKE' Ranger take care of the issued regardless the cost. If he is so Great and cares about the customer so. **Then have him fix just one customers issue, to the customers satisfaction by this weekend.** He's the boss extremely easy for him to get it done. He has to know of at least one!

Now as to compare with other Co's. Genmar an Ranger are last. For example you have a structural hull problem with a Skeeter, owned by Yamaha, they either replace it no questions asked are buy it back at full purchase price, again no questions asked. Ranger has never replaced a boat, Never! And the ones they give to pros an tourneys, as is recorded here, they pawn off on unsuspecting customers. Great 'upstanding ' Co. to save a few dollars.

Now you seem to state Ranger is separate from Genmar and all its other Cos. Well then maybe Mr. Jacobs should Tell them to fix a complaint or cut them loose. From what I read here they are almost Bankrupt, why does Mr. Jacobs hang on to them knowing full well how they are. Answer he condones it. **He either steps up and voluntarily makes Ranger settle one of these issues, Cuts Ranger loose from Genmar...or You, Genmar and Mr. Jacobs are Liars.**

Here is your chance! Genmar, Jacobs, and you, either "puts up or shuts up", prove you care about the customer! **Fix just one Ranger issue by this weekend, just one!**

I guarantee you all he will not do it! Jacobs Doesn't care enough to even know of one to fix. Doesn't bother to even remember one! So it will never happen!

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#18 Consumer Comment

Another Fake! FYI, Genmar is Ranger, You condone liars you are one! Let's Test Jacobs Intergrity!

AUTHOR: R. West - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, June 04, 2009

Well I had to chime in here, ole Dan and Dave both live in a fantasy world. Odd Dan left 'No Way' for any one to get in contact. I do believe that's ole Irwin faking again!

Dan so you know that line doesn't work. We have all been put through the stall tactics machine of Ranger and Genmar. The only reason you want all the documents is to see what they have, and how you can cover it up. Some as long as 20 yrs.

And if you believe Mr. Jacobs is so 'upstanding' then have a talk with him. He should know of all of the customers that have problems with Ranger. If he cared you would not need 'us' to contact you, Mr. Jacobs would know of it, and ' MAKE' Ranger take care of the issued regardless the cost. If he is so Great and cares about the customer so. **Then have him fix just one customers issue, to the customers satisfaction by this weekend.** He's the boss extremely easy for him to get it done. He has to know of at least one!

Now as to compare with other Co's. Genmar an Ranger are last. For example you have a structural hull problem with a Skeeter, owned by Yamaha, they either replace it no questions asked are buy it back at full purchase price, again no questions asked. Ranger has never replaced a boat, Never! And the ones they give to pros an tourneys, as is recorded here, they pawn off on unsuspecting customers. Great 'upstanding ' Co. to save a few dollars.

Now you seem to state Ranger is separate from Genmar and all its other Cos. Well then maybe Mr. Jacobs should Tell them to fix a complaint or cut them loose. From what I read here they are almost Bankrupt, why does Mr. Jacobs hang on to them knowing full well how they are. Answer he condones it. **He either steps up and voluntarily makes Ranger settle one of these issues, Cuts Ranger loose from Genmar...or You, Genmar and Mr. Jacobs are Liars.**

Here is your chance! Genmar, Jacobs, and you, either "puts up or shuts up", prove you care about the customer! **Fix just one Ranger issue by this weekend, just one!**

I guarantee you all he will not do it! Jacobs Doesn't care enough to even know of one to fix. Doesn't bother to even remember one! So it will never happen!

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#17 UPDATE Employee

Warrantys

AUTHOR: Dan - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, June 03, 2009

I also am a Genmar employee. Before you start in how Genmar has so many warranty claims you should compare them with the claims against other boating companys. I'm sure you will find Genmar has no more claims than any of the others. As far as Ranger goes I think you will find out that Ranger is one Genmar subsidiarys that is mostly independent and they handle most of their claims outside of Genmar. Having worked for the company for 10 plus years I find it hard to believe you have met with the kind of responses from the service Reps and definately not from Mr Jacobs. However I would be more than pleased to have you contact me personally and as a current employee I will do all I can to get to the bottom of this. This in my experience is not how customers are treated by this company. Please feel free to forward all the information and I will check into it.

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#16 Consumer Comment

GENMAR & rANGER are Theifs! I have Altered and Fraudulent Documents they used to cheat me!!!

AUTHOR: Cw - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, May 30, 2009

I believe that is Irwin Jacobs, not an employee named Dave.

For the Record I have they Documents they altered and Falsified in my Issue! YES the do do that!

I have both the orignals and the ones they Altered that Ranger Boats used to Steal my boat by Fraud. Pristinely Documented !

No question about it!!!

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#15 Consumer Comment

GENMAR & rANGER are Theifs! I have Altered and Fraudulent Documents they used to cheat me!!!

AUTHOR: Cw - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, May 30, 2009

I believe that is Irwin Jacobs, not an employee named Dave.

For the Record I have they Documents they altered and Falsified in my Issue! YES the do do that!

I have both the orignals and the ones they Altered that Ranger Boats used to Steal my boat by Fraud. Pristinely Documented !

No question about it!!!

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#14 Consumer Comment

GENMAR & rANGER are Theifs! I have Altered and Fraudulent Documents they used to cheat me!!!

AUTHOR: Cw - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, May 30, 2009

I believe that is Irwin Jacobs, not an employee named Dave.

For the Record I have they Documents they altered and Falsified in my Issue! YES the do do that!

I have both the orignals and the ones they Altered that Ranger Boats used to Steal my boat by Fraud. Pristinely Documented !

No question about it!!!

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#13 Consumer Comment

GENMAR & rANGER are Theifs! I have Altered and Fraudulent Documents they used to cheat me!!!

AUTHOR: Cw - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, May 30, 2009

I believe that is Irwin Jacobs, not an employee named Dave.

For the Record I have they Documents they altered and Falsified in my Issue! YES the do do that!

I have both the orignals and the ones they Altered that Ranger Boats used to Steal my boat by Fraud. Pristinely Documented !

No question about it!!!

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#12 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Dave your wrong! Ranger and Genmar are Crooks and Liars!

AUTHOR: Rich - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, May 28, 2009

No his name should be Mr. Excuse Dave,

Dear Mr. Excuse Dave, if you would have actually read the OP's original post and listen to the facts, you would know like the rest of the readers it just happened and he/she has hired a Lawyer.
I mean how do you refuse to give back such a large deposit.

Mr. Excuse Dave, FYI, I too call the number and was put through to THE MAN, I admit I had to sweet talk the lady but he did take the call. I informed him of you and that maybe he should rehire you as a Public Relations Spokesman.

I will admit I saw The J.D.Powers stuff too. But I will also say I tried to make a negative report and it was refused. Everyone come to their own conclusion as why they would do that. As for consumer reports, same answer. But as you Knock this site maybe you should check its STATUS with those same Co's and people. You will see this is a honest and upstanding site that refuses to be bullied by a large company. It is FAMOUS for TRUTH AND HONESTY.

It takes the Facts and exposes Company's like yours for what they really are. Heck it even printed your gibberish about a moving co. IT's called No Bearing on the matter. Yes face it Genmar probably has its up and down moments. Its treatment of customers? A DOWN MOMENT. Its letting go of you and removing you from the rehire list? AN UP MOMENT. Or Genmar and Ranger ( as I know for Fact is) are just plain shady and crooked companies.

If a Company as Bad as Genmar doesn't want you, that speaks of your Character and Integrity. I mean face it your own here speaking as an authority on a matter that you know nothing of Stating facts that are blatantly false. The OP has already it seems called you on every issue. In all your rantings have you apologized to the person who's weight you tried to critic? It was wrong direction for a boat to list.

Now I say this as I was an ex employee for years of a Dealership in Texas. I have personally seen and been involved in the atrocities perpetrated against customers. I do not know Genmars policy but Rangers has been for years to provide virtually NO customer service to any Customer that is well shown to never be a repeat buyer.

I have seen Ranger Reps force dealers into situations unheard of in the business world. I have seen them manufacture false accident and blame a complaining customer. I have seen them falsify documents, change and alter loan contracts. It's scary. I know of what I speak.

And if you go to any boat ramp here in my neck of the woods you want get compliments on Ranger, you'll get a flyer on your car or see one posted on the P.W. Billboards telling you Ranger Boats or liars and cheats and I believe it calls them thieves. And FYI a lot of local Bass Clubs refuse Ranger members as a sort of punishment to ranger. I admit thats ridiculous, but it happens.

So I as Ex employee of Ranger and A Ranger dealer, I have seen it and been in on it. It's Fact. Accept it.

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#11 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Ask a Ranger OWNER - J.D. Powers

AUTHOR: Dave M. - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, May 28, 2009

You made my wife laugh when you accused me of using a Genmar server and once again called me names such as liar and a fraud.

Maybe you ARE a wronged person. In that case why don't you SUE them. Have you taken them to court? If some one did all you say and you have so much documentation, it would be an easy matter to go to court. I know I would. I mean you said you have a Lawyer - what are you paying him/her for? If so in what court and what's the court docket Number?

I did look into more reports of what you claim is bad customer reports. Not having any extra disposable income I couldn't buy the online Consumer Reports on Ranger Boats. But I was able to find the J.D. POWERS CUSTOMER SATISFACTION report that list Ranger bass boats 2nd behind Bass Cat. They have been considered "Better than most" by buyers. This was for the last few years I checked. Since they put a couple of the industry's larger boat company's near the bottom on a couple different boat types, they look to have fair reporting.

But of course you will say they are shills too - no doubt.

My rebuttals are made by posting through this web site. It is their server which posts this message. Unless Rippoff.com has given you my actual e-mail address used to log on here. In which case not only have they violated their own policy, but the trail to my e-mail address and the server that originated it would lead to Yahoo.com and then you'd have to hack their system to get to account info which leads to my local cell phone company. I live in the country and use a cell phone as a modem - Sorry, no grand conspiracies here.

By your accounts of your "research" you have mystic internet powers that no one else has and that you are given secret access to files no one else has. You must be a Super Hacker too!

The real issue is you. Your "research" is bogus and you didn't call Genmar. You just make these claims and call it proof where none exist. How is anyone who is reads this really to know?

Let them do their OWN research and go to the boat launches on any day and ask the guys who OWNS a Ranger. Some will like them and some will not - like anything else we buy.

Years ago I remember asking a guy about Mayflower Moving when I was thinking about becoming an Owner Operator. He just cussed them out up and down. Nothing good to say about them. Then I looked at his equipment. Hadn't washed it in months him or the truck -Tires shot - shoddy everywhere you looked. Then I talked to another Mayflower owner operator who had decently maintained equipment and he filled me in on the company and moving in general. Result? I went to work for them. Made money before the discount got too high and left when the industry as a whole got "Discount-Itus" (meaning they discounted my earnings)

I suspect you got taken by a Bogus Dealer OR - you ARE the BOGUS DEALER that Ranger sacked and are trying to get back at Ranger and Genmar through malicious attacks and this is the only forum that would print it.

An otherwise rational person would take them to court if any or some of what you say is true.

That said - you can go have the last rant. I do have a life.

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#10 Consumer Comment

Funny 'Genmar Dave'

AUTHOR: G.rend - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, May 28, 2009

Its seems Funny to me that after 'Dave' was discovered to be a Genmar Employee he stopped responding. Just goes to show how that Genmar Co. and Ranger operate, Lie and Defraud. 'Dave' could just as easily can on here and put out Genmars position. Instead like all the complaints show, they decide to Lie instead of facing the truth like a man.

And OP you are correct They have always sold off the Tournament Boats, and I too got put through to Mr. Jacobs. Real Funny 'Genmar Dave'! ROFLMAO!

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#9 Consumer Comment

Interesting

AUTHOR: Diogenes - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, May 27, 2009

After searching the web, I must agree with the OP concerning this rip off. The facts speak for themselves. And he is right on another subject - with the lack of customer service, Ranger will soon be no more.

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#8 Author of original report

COPY OF E-MAIL FROM THE SO CALLED "FORUMS" ADMISTRATOR

AUTHOR: Tj - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, May 26, 2009

You registered and for your very first post made one ofthe longest posts I've seen, totally bashing Ranger boats.
We do NOT allow the bashing of any company or individual on the BBC Boards. The best company in the world couldn't
please all of the people all of the time no matter how hard they tried.

As far as BBC being an "honest forum", it's the largest on the Internet because we don't allow the bashing andcrap like
this that some other sites do. Only "promotional" posts? Well if you'd been around long enough you'd know that
wasn't true. Would we have over 34,000 members and grow by 1000 members per month if we were?

Al Shields



ONLY PROMOTIONAL POST ALLOWED NO BASHING??/ HOW IS THAT HONESTY? IT'S NOT!! THE FORUMS ARE SCAMS AND WORTHLESS TO ANYONE NEEDING TRUE AND ACCURATE INFORMATION.

THIS SITE IS ONE OF THE FEW HONEST ONES!

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#7 Author of original report

COPY OF E-MAIL FROM THE SO CALLED "FORUMS" ADMISTRATOR

AUTHOR: Tj - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, May 26, 2009

You registered and for your very first post made one ofthe longest posts I've seen, totally bashing Ranger boats.
We do NOT allow the bashing of any company or individual on the BBC Boards. The best company in the world couldn't
please all of the people all of the time no matter how hard they tried.

As far as BBC being an "honest forum", it's the largest on the Internet because we don't allow the bashing andcrap like
this that some other sites do. Only "promotional" posts? Well if you'd been around long enough you'd know that
wasn't true. Would we have over 34,000 members and grow by 1000 members per month if we were?

Al Shields



ONLY PROMOTIONAL POST ALLOWED NO BASHING??/ HOW IS THAT HONESTY? IT'S NOT!! THE FORUMS ARE SCAMS AND WORTHLESS TO ANYONE NEEDING TRUE AND ACCURATE INFORMATION.

THIS SITE IS ONE OF THE FEW HONEST ONES!

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#6 Author of original report

COPY OF E-MAIL FROM THE SO CALLED "FORUMS" ADMISTRATOR

AUTHOR: Tj - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, May 26, 2009

You registered and for your very first post made one ofthe longest posts I've seen, totally bashing Ranger boats.
We do NOT allow the bashing of any company or individual on the BBC Boards. The best company in the world couldn't
please all of the people all of the time no matter how hard they tried.

As far as BBC being an "honest forum", it's the largest on the Internet because we don't allow the bashing andcrap like
this that some other sites do. Only "promotional" posts? Well if you'd been around long enough you'd know that
wasn't true. Would we have over 34,000 members and grow by 1000 members per month if we were?

Al Shields



ONLY PROMOTIONAL POST ALLOWED NO BASHING??/ HOW IS THAT HONESTY? IT'S NOT!! THE FORUMS ARE SCAMS AND WORTHLESS TO ANYONE NEEDING TRUE AND ACCURATE INFORMATION.

THIS SITE IS ONE OF THE FEW HONEST ONES!

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#5 Author of original report

COPY OF E-MAIL FROM THE SO CALLED "FORUMS" ADMISTRATOR

AUTHOR: Tj - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, May 26, 2009

You registered and for your very first post made one ofthe longest posts I've seen, totally bashing Ranger boats.
We do NOT allow the bashing of any company or individual on the BBC Boards. The best company in the world couldn't
please all of the people all of the time no matter how hard they tried.

As far as BBC being an "honest forum", it's the largest on the Internet because we don't allow the bashing andcrap like
this that some other sites do. Only "promotional" posts? Well if you'd been around long enough you'd know that
wasn't true. Would we have over 34,000 members and grow by 1000 members per month if we were?

Al Shields



ONLY PROMOTIONAL POST ALLOWED NO BASHING??/ HOW IS THAT HONESTY? IT'S NOT!! THE FORUMS ARE SCAMS AND WORTHLESS TO ANYONE NEEDING TRUE AND ACCURATE INFORMATION.

THIS SITE IS ONE OF THE FEW HONEST ONES!

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#4 Author of original report

Dave get your facts Straight!

AUTHOR: Tj - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, May 26, 2009

Ok Dave, I got an e-mail about your rebuttal and read it.

So first off, I called the dealer and Ranger has an entire list of tournament boats they are pushing on the Dealers. The most are Collegiate National Championship series. So know your facts first, they are sold, pick up a phone and call. THEY DO SELL USED TOURNAMENT BOATS AS NEW, UN REGISTERED!

Second I placed a call to Genmar 800-328-5557, ask for Mr. Irwin Jacobs, and was put right through, to his secretary and then to him. Took less than two minutes. Try it, he apparently will speak to anyone. Plus FYI my atty has it recorded. So if it wasn't him then it's someone at his office impersonating him, which do you think is most likely.

Third I have hundreds of reports that were online saved.

As for the Bassboats forum, maybe you should check again, most of them will not take a negative compliant for fear of losing there sponsors. I posted several that were denied as negative! So those are just mere advertising for Co's like Ranger and Genmar, NOT TRUE FORUMS, WITH THE TRUTH! ""DENIED BY asheilds@bassboatcentral.com."" ANOTHER LACKEY FOR THE CROOKS. Check it you'll see, out of thousands of forums, not a complaint one about a Co. NONE! Seems odd noone has ever complained about ANY Co. It's Fake and False.

As for this site, Is CLEARLY HONEST to me, and your search is false I personally have complaints posted on 11 different sites, not counting the ones that denied them. I found out why you made that statement, WHAT! GENMAR COULDN'T BULLY THIS SITE?

And I too had some research done, its odd your postings on here are coming from a Jacobs Management / Genmar computer and server. Your a fraud!!! YOU ARE GENMAR!!! NICE TRY!! YOU ARE JUST SOME GENMAR FLUNKY TRING TO COVERUP WHAT HAS HAPPENED, PRETENDING TO BE SOME GUY OFF THE STREET!! YOUR A JOKE.

THAT SHOWS GENAMR IS CROOKS AND LIARS!!! YOUR FRAUD JUST PROVED IT!! TELL YOUR BOSS I WILL GET MY DEPOSIT BACK!

AS FOR GENMAR BEING STRONG MAYBE THEY ARE. DON'T KNOW. BUT I KNOW FROM RANGERS ON POSTINGS ON THE FORUMS YOU SPEAK OFF, THEY ARE DOWN FROM PRODUCTION OF OVER 250 A DAY TO LESS THAN 20. SO KEEP COVERING FOR GENMAR AS A LOYAL LAPDOG EMPLOYEE. RANGER IS TANKING !!! AND WITH IT GOES A LITTLE OF GENMAR.

GET A LIFE, IF THEY ARE SO GOOD WHY DON'T YOU BUY ONE, I'M SURE THEY NEED THE SALE!
QUIT LIEING ON HERE, I KNOW, SINCE YOU WORK FOR GENMAR MAYBE YOU SHOULD HANDEL SOME OF THESE THOUSANDS OF COMPLAINTS, AND TAKE CARE OF THE CUSTOMER, AND GENMAR MIGHT HAVE A GOOD REPUTATION.

IRWIN JACOBS BY HIS OWN ACTIONS IS A THEIF, CON-ARTIST, LIAR AND A FRAUD. YOU COVER FOR THE CROOKS AT RANGER YOU BECOME ONE!! DON'T DO BUSSINESS WITH HIM!!

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#3 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Unrighteous Indignation

AUTHOR: Dave M. - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, May 26, 2009

Inserting "Duh" into every line of your hostile argument has the same exact effect as when Homer Simpson says it. It would make me laugh, but you seem very upset and are willing to attack everything within keyboard range.

I will give just one issue though. The Tournament boats behind the bass Boat factory I spoke of - the ones waiting to be destroyed. Is not a lie - sir. I was told by the management team that they were returned from tournament service and that they were being destroyed and that NO I could not buy them and that they were not for sale. As to any other Tournament Bass boats out there - I have no clue. You are probably right.

See what I did there? I made my point without calling you names. You should try it. It might make your report more believable. That's why I made a rebuttal in the first place. The things you said where inflammatory, yet not believable.

The very second sentence of my rebuttal clearly states "on the RARE occasions..." I took back maybe four boats in one year needing warranty work. You're just making enormous exaggerated assumptions based on your own feelings on one personal issue.

You sound very upset, but calling everyone in the entire Genmar organization "Liar's and cheats..." is silly. And I simply don't believe your lawyer was "Cussed out" by the owner of Genmar. Your lawyer would have only been able to talk to Genmar's lawyer. The owner of Genmar is a busy man - he would probably talk with T. Boone Pickens about renewable energy and windmills, but I doubt he talked directly with your "lawyer." That's not how its done.

The ONLY place I ever heard of any issue with Ranger and was from this site and from several reports posted here every so often. That may be a testament to this site's policy for posting any report.

I only found this site after googling Genmar sales 2009/2010 or similar search terms. I try to keep track of what the boat industry is doing to see whether I can still hope to come back to it. When these accusations came up I did extensive searching and reading. If what you said were true - then I would be very concerned about going back to work for a company that supposedly "Cheated" its customers. I don't live my life that way and I would not work for a company that did.

After hours and hours (I'm laid-off remember - I have the time now) of online search and even talking to my neighbor who does do some fishing out of a Ranger Bass boat and his tournament experience - the general reputation of Ranger is very good. I've looked at news reports and consumers reports and page after page of customer reports. On ebay listing where people are selling their old Ranger to buy a new Ranger. On the bass fishing forums where anyone can post anything about their boats - and NO WHERE does the types of issues you raise come up. It may be out there - but I'm not finding it. You google Ranger Bass Boats and you will find people ordering and receiving their boats all day long - page after page. I guess these people are all liars too?

I did find reports of some Texas Dealerships having Ranger pulling the plug on them though. Is that what this is really about?

And yes I was a Genmar driver before the recession. But I am no longer on a next to be called back list. I probably will get another driving job elsewhere as the entire boat industry in at slack water. Many boat companies have gone under. Many others are close. But I will tell you that no boat company is as financially strong as Genmar to wait it out. They have very loyal customers and have introduced two new lines as well. They could not hope to be in business if they did the things you charge.

Dave M.

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#2 Author of original report

Response to Dave of Genmar

AUTHOR: Tj - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Sunday, May 24, 2009

Dave,

I'm glad you feel the Gemar company is so Great. You feel this way because you have not been cheated by them, or they pay you to say it. I personally though Ranger was the Greatest Boat in the world. That was until I found out the hard way, they are not! Far from it! Now as to your rebuttal.

You talk of delivering 31 footers and such, well I am sure 200,000.00 dollar customers get a little better treatment than small inshore fishing boats. I am sure you haul back boats to the factory for repairs.

Point one you talk as if the returns or a daily occurrence, that in it's self is cause for alarm. ANY BOAT COMPANY THAT HAS DEFECTS OR WARRANTY WORK SO BAD, that a dealer can't do the repairs, and it must have daily returns to the factory, SHOULD NOT BE IN BUSSINESS!! One maybe two a year, but you talk like its everyday.

You also talk about a cosmetic problem you spotted and they repair, think about that. A truck driver spotted a defect and no one else did? What no quality control? If that truly happened, Think real hard about all the non visible structural defects coming out of that factory!

As four the swap of a 09 for an 08, Duh, they sure can't build an 08 in 09, so they had to give an 09. It was there error. And it seems Genmar and Ranger have a huge problem delivering boats as ordered. Read the other reports, you just confirm that!

As to your comment of the 'leans to far to the left' customer, I assume you are referring to his weight. Duh!, the drivers consoles are on the right, not left!! So it should intentionally lean a little right but the defect counters that and still leans left! That is obviously another structural defect by Genmar!

As for the abused Ski Boat, defect I'd guess, I'm sure they didn't replace it without there being a reason, the scratches on a ski boat, who knows, beaching to party or something. But I do know Bass boats are designed to be run shallow and in timber, and all have hundreds of scratches, that does not violate a warranty, that is their designed use. If it did, all fishing boat Co's would be broke. So we know the truth on that one.

Now to your statement that no tournament boat are resold are defective repaired boats. THAT SIR IS A LIE!!!
Ranger, Champion, all of them resale tournament boats. Every fisherman knows this! I just called a dealer and they have 2 tournament boats, returned and being sold, AS NEW. It is not a secret, they are advertised as such, and has been done for years! Flw series, Redman all American, Bass classic, they have always done that and continue. The boats are donated and used at the tournaments unregistered, and returned and sold as new! Check your facts, before you lie to the public on behalf of Genmar and Ranger. THAT IS A CLEAR LIE TO THE PUBLIC1

That is why there are 100's of complaints online, flat out lies by Ranger, Genmar, and its employee's! Like you! You probably can't purchase one of the 'out to pasture boats', outright by asking, cause they dont want you to know. But I know for a FACT they are repaired and sold. How? My atty already has statements from 4 men who were sold defective ranger boats that had been used in prior tournaments, or returned under warranty! Found just by looking online and requesting it. That's in less than a week!!! Imagine how many more we get by end of summer!

So you, like all other Genmar and Ranger employeesLIED! YOU lied. And have the nerve to post those lies to swindle other unsuspecting customers! WHAT YOU SEE 'OUT BACK' 'PUT TO PASTURE' ARE THE NUMBER OF DEFECTIVE PIECES OF CRAP THEY HAVE TRIED TO PASS OFF ON THE CONSUMER, AND I BET EACH ONE OF THEM REQUIRED AN ATTY. AND A HUGE HASSEL TO GET RETURNED. Just because you haul them back doesn't mean it wasn't a fight to get them hauled back. You weren't involved! and you don't know!

Now facts: My Atty has already discovered ,by admission, the person who I spoke with and cussed me and called me a Son of a B****, and stated Ranger business practices are their own business, WAS THE PRESIDENT OF RANGER RANDY HOPPER! And FYI my Atty called GENMAR and WAS CUSSED OUT EXACTLY THE SAME BY IT'S PRESIDENT IRWIN JACOBS! So Genmar apparently does stomach personal abuse of its customers, Me, the hundreds of other online complainants, as far back as almost 20yrs, according to some and the flyer's I've seen, So know your facts before you try to defraud anyone reading these warnings, as like it never happened!

And know of what you speak before you get on here and LIE! trying to 'brown nose' your way back into a job, with a company well know for hiring and employing Crooks, Con Artist, Swindlers, Thieves and Bold Faced Liars. None of what you said even is factual, and doesn't meet scrutiny as outlined above.

Your own words show RANGER AND GENMAR, put out a crappy, and shitty, boat product and, your statement to the returns prove it, your pasture full of defects prove it, your (a driver) catching a defect, that they passed proves it, your acknowledgement of orders being wrong proves it, and like all other RANGER AND GENMAR employees you disrespect the customer, your comment on a persons weight proves it, and you LIE! your false claims about no resold tournament boats proves it!

I hope they do hire you back, all your types need to be in one place so the public knows where you are. Maybe Genmar will go Bankrupt and you lose pay and unemployment. As My Atty discovered Ranger is only months away from that, the complaints have hurt the sales to the point of operating in the red for yrs now. I wish I'd seen the reports prior so I could have taken them to heart and selected something other than a Genmar Boat. Get a Life.

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#1 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Warranty issues I've seen handled by Genmar

AUTHOR: Dave M. - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, May 16, 2009

Before the economic down-turn layoffs - I was a Driver for Genmar Transportation. This is the dealer delivery part of Genmar Marine. We would deliver and on rare occasions pick up any boats needing factory warranty work and take them back.

Let me state right here, I do not now work for Genmar nor do I have any specific knowledge about Ranger. But I have been to and delivered just about every other Genmar factory model. This being said I cannot give any credibility to these reports I'm reading about Ranger. Individual dealers perhaps - but not the parent company Genmar.

Here's why;

Genmar and Ranger have their own trucks to pick up warranty returns. The trucks are going back to the factory anyway. This is a huge advantage to a legitimate Genmar dealer. No third party trucking companies haggling over the delivery charges. No cost to dealers. There is nothing in the dealers interest to obstruct the return of a warranty to the factory.

I delivered a 31 foot Four Winns to a dealer in N.C. for a customer who had origianally ordered the factory A.C. unit for his 2008 boat, but it was not installed. Four Winns allowed him to continue to use that boat until a new 2009 boat was built at NO pro-rated charges or charges of any kind. Though the 2009 boat was valued higher and the customer gained an additional year of boat value. The customer paid not one cent more than the original purchase price on the 2008 boat.

Another dealer was holding a warranty return boat for a 2nd dealer's customer - as he had the necessary equipment and helped me load it. Nothing in it for them but an hour charge back to Genmar. They where very gracious as though it was their own customer. The reason for warranty? The customer said it leaned to the left too much - which almost begs an improper personal question. Plus This customer was being relocated across the country and Genmar was going to re-deliver it for free to his nearest dealer at no charge!

While at one of the factories I watched a crew dismantle a very abused ski boat - I mean this thing had beer cans stuffed everywhere. The hull was totally scratch and banged up - obnoxious stickers everywhere- a five gallon pail filled with concrete with a warning to "Narcs" - just tore up and trashed. The factory was replacing the entire hull under warranty. If there was ever a boat that did not meet a reasonable amount of care and personal responsibility it was this boat. They replaced it.

At another factory I spotted a slight mold mark in the gelcoat and three Quality Control guys came out to inspect and to find out why it got out the door that way. They were very concerned and glad it was detected - it only took 10 minutes of extra polishing - which could have been done just as easily at the dealer.

It is just about impossible to repurchase a rejected hull or warranty return boat from any Genmar factory I've been too. My local factory - Four Winns - will not even resell perfectly good prototypes or older test platforms. They don't want any bad PR and are very intense about it. They would rather cut it up than resell it - this is policy. This policy also pertains to another factory that makes bass boats. There is a field in the back where past Pro Tournament Boats are put to pasture before they are scrapped. They look perfectly good to me - but you can't buy them!

I have talked to many Genmar company employees from factory floor to middle and upper management - They don't tolerate abuse to the customers or dealers. We where always told "The customer pays the bills" "Never get in a argument with the dealer - call dispatch." This doesn't mean there are not problems, but the Genmar way of dealing with complaints is professional and results oriented and at no time would the company stomach personal abuse to customers. If this really happened the person responsible would be out the door so fast......No matter who!

As you can tell I have the utmost respect for the company I used to work for. I am biased for sure and I make no apologies for it. Its the best company I have ever worked for and hope to be called back when the economy improves. So if these complaints bear any facts what so ever, I have to believe its from an individual dealership or dealership who made limited COD only purchases. These complaints bear no resemblance to any standards I ever witnessed or heard about.

Dave M.

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