Report: #1112132

Complaint Review: Roseburg Rod & Gun Club - Roseburg Oregon

  • Submitted:
  • Updated:
  • Reported By: Ted — Roseburg Oregon
  • Roseburg Rod & Gun Club 875 Old Del Rio Rd. Roseburg, Oregon USA

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Soon after I became a dues-paying member of the Roseburg Rod & Gun Club, I was encouraged to apply as a Range Officer (RO), mostly so that I can shoot any time I wanted because I would have the key/s to either/both the pistol and rifle ranges.  Because shooting at both ranges are up to tightly controlled scheduling, recreational shooting is a matter of which of the few days one range or another is open.  So, based upon the encouragement of what I refer to as "the core group clic" (long-time members), I quickly satisfied the then requirements for becoming both a pistol and rifle RO.

I volunteered as an RO as often as I was needed.  I also eagerly participated in "work parties"--cleaning and/or repairing range targets, etc.  I was also frequently invited to take NRA classes such as Range Safety Officer, Chief Range Safety Officer, and Certified Instructor, passing each class, and earning my NRA credentials.

As I served as an RO, I noted quite a number of unsafe shooters who required special attention.  In one case, on the pistol range, I was nearly shot in the head by an elderly member whom I later learned was a long-time member.  He complained that I "mistreated" him because I forced his hand that held the gun that nearly shot me, down onto a table, demanding that he release his firearm.  He instantly went from incredulous to angry.  Apparently, he reported the incident to club staff.

When attending mandatory pistol and rifle RO meetings, I made numerous sugestions (one such suggestion was that each RO receive and be certified in First Aid and Basic Life Support should there be an incident on a range where such skills might mean a matter of life or death.  I was quickly shot down by one of the "good ol' boys" even before I finished speaking as a "newbie" who just didn't know "how things worked around here."

Soon thereafter, I received an emailed complaint, citing that I had violated Club bylaws, and that I was to first be questioned, then appear before the Club board for "disciplinary action."  As a volunteer RO with a safety-first mentality, I was floored!  My response to the email was asking precisely which bylaw/s I had violated that supposedly misrepresented the club.  My repeated attempts at encouraging answered to my queries fell on deaf ears.  To this very day, I have no idea which Club bylaws I may have violated, and/or who I may have offended to earn such a complaint...and to be summarily suspended from my RO duties.

When I refused to be "interrogated," and further refused to present myself before the Club's board for "adjudication"/"judgment" regarding my violation of Club bylaws--whatever bylaw I supposedly violated--I then received an official letter from Club board representatives Kerry Boak and Wayne Giles, formally permanently dismissing me from my RO duties.

Over the past five months, I have sought out club members, asking them just what Club bylaw/s I supposedly violated, and just how I misrepresented the Club, to no avail.  To this day, I remain suspicious as to the nature of this case and the people involved as to their secrecy and why they summarily dismissed me as an RO, a position a worked extremely hard at earning.

One final comment.  MOST of the ROs I have experienced being around and serving with on both the pistol and rifle ranges appeared to be confused about RO procedures, inexperienced with firearms to the point whereas injuries and a possible fatality is of concern.  Many of the ROs simply act as premadonas...who have no business interacting with individuals who are just out on whichever range to relax and shoot without being constantly harassed by such individuals the Club has deemed "competent" enough to supervise and, if necessary and/or called upon, to give guidance in the safe use of firearms.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 01/01/2014 02:46 PM and is a permanent record located here: https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/roseburg-rod-gun-club/roseburg-oregon-97471/roseburg-rod-gun-club-a-good-ol-boys-club-roseburg-oregon-1112132. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year. Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report. READ: Foreign websites steal our content

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#3 Author of original report

My Response to A Good Ol' Boy's Response

AUTHOR: - ()

POSTED: Saturday, September 17, 2016

If I may be clear, first off, Roseburg Rod and Gun Club maintains an exceptional facility, just as the writer to whom I'm about to take exception regarding my alleged "use of force" incident states.  RRGC is one of the nicest clubs -- physically, grounds, various ranges available, etc. -- I have ever been a part of as a former dues-paying member.  That is a matter of record.

As to my alleged "use of force," please allow me to elaborate.  I was actually involved in four separate incidents with shooters that were matters of serious concern.  The case in point involved an elderly gentleman, with whom I had some difficulty on two of those four incidents.

My first issue with this gentleman took place when I was still in training as an indoor pistol Range Officer.  While sitting in his shooting carrel, the individual placed his .38 caliber revolver in his lap, the grip pointing toward the shooter in the next carrel over, and the muzzle pointing slightly upward toward the head of the shooter on his other side.  As I’ve understood gun firearms safety since the age of 8, the cardinal rule for gun safety is to ALWAYS keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, unless or until you are prepared to shoot in/at a predetermined direction/target.  The second cardinal rule is that EVERY gun is loaded, whether it's physically empty or not.  This was a clear safety violation.  I pointed out the individual and the safety concern to my trainer, expecting that she would take corrective action.  Instead, she informed me that the elderly shooter was a significant contributor to RRGC, and that he was (usually) a safe shooter; that he would be leaving the range soon, and that we could "let it slide this time."  Though surprised by this allowance of two major safety violations, I chose not to argue my concerns, and to ignore the situation, believing that my trainer would appropriately deal with it, whenever.

The next incident I was involved in with this very same member took place when I was a qualified RO for that very same indoor pistol range on a Tuesday evening.  I had set up a table in the foyer just outside the range so that I could inspect firearms for safety before members entered the range to pay their range fee.  My usual protocol for firearms inspection included the following:

  • Uncase the firearm

  • Show me that the magazine is out and there's not one round in the chamber.

  • Re-case the firearm, and enter the range.

    The first two members in line passed muster with no incident.  However, when the elderly gentleman in question opened his case, he immediately grasped his firearm with his left hand, and brought it up to my face, within only about 18", the muzzle pointed right at me.

    Now, as I'm sure any reasonable person might do, RO or non-RO, I was startled; however, not to the point of panic.  I used my own left hand to first push the muzzle of the firearm up and away from my face, then quickly slid my hand down over the member's hand, which was still gripping the firearm, and pushing it down upon the tabletop while at the same time courteously but firmly directing that he release his grip so that I may physically inspect the firearm.  Instead of complying with my instruction to release his grip, the member tensed his grip on the firearm, and then looked intently – I believe, angrily – at me, as if to imply that I had no business “manhandling” him as he perceived I was doing.

    When I further insisted that the member let go of his firearm, he eventually complied.  Upon inspecting the firearm myself, I discovered the magazine, fully stacked, and that there was a round in the chamber.

    So then tell me that I was out of line by employing whatever so-called “force” I did in order to protect my own life from a likely accidental discharge.  Please!  Would you or any other reasonable person have performed differently?  I seriously doubt it.  Fact is, I took entirely appropriate action, and I stand by it.

    I have been shot three times in my life:  Twice in military combat in SE Asia, and once by a purported drug dealer in the parking lot of a 7-Eleven near Northgate Mall in Seattle.  I was left lying on the asphalt, gasping for air as the perp drove off.  The bullet had entered my right-backside, and lodged in my right kidney.  Had it passed all the way through, I would have bled out and died.

    The two incidents in combat occurred when a piece of RPG shrapnel pierced my upper left ribcage, churning my lower left lung into a bloody smoothie.  Had it not been for a quick-thinking corpsman and radioman, as a MEDIVAC, I would have bled out then, and died.

    The other incident in which I was wounded was when I caught a bullet fragment from a ricocheting 7.62 x 39 AK round in combat in my left heel.  The bullet luckily pulverized upon impacting my boot, but the lead still powdered my leg skin, turning it dark purple for many years to come.

    The other two incidents involved two other shooters on the rifle range, separately.  One case involved a disabled youth in a wheelchair and an individual who claimed to be a US Army-qualified firearms instructor.  The shooting bench was too high for the youth.  With each shot from his AR, he would then bring the firearm butt stock back and down, the muzzle traveling up and then slightly backward toward the RO shack.  I repeatedly yet courteously asked both the youth and his instructing friend to keep the firearm muzzle pointed downrange at all times.  Each time, the youth’s instructing friend, the so-called US Army firearms instructor, would counter my instructions with harsh comments about me as an RO, and further protest my “badgering” a disabled person.  After the third time my asking that the two comply with range rules, and them both failing to comply and directing inappropriate comments in my direction, I asked them to pack up their gear and leave the range.  They were not happy.  I was accused of discriminating against disabled persons.

    Lastly, an individual shooting an SKS for the first time apparently didn’t know what he was doing, safety-wise or otherwise.  During live fire with a number of people on the line firing, I became curious as to why spews of sand and dirt were popping up along the right side of the range, instead of the berm downrange.  More disconcerting was that these dirt spews were traveling back toward the bench area!  Unsure of just what was happening, I observed closely, finally determining that the phenomena had to be due to the shooter on the end of the range firing an SKS.  I ordered a cease fire, then spoke with the shooter.  He informed me that he had never fired an SKS before, and didn’t really know how it worked, but was “trying to get the hang of it.”  So I instructed him to proceed with firing so that I might be able to make a more accurate determination as to what might be the cause of the rounds traveling up the side of the range instead of remaining downrange.  What I observed was that the shooter failed to maintain control of the firearm, but allow it to jump and travel, the muzzle progressively moving off to the right instead of remaining pointed downrange.  After providing the shooter with specific instructions to better handle his firearm, I left him to observe him from the distance.  The shooter continued to fail to heed my instructions, even when I repeated them two more times.  By then, I had determined that due to the large number of other shooters at the range, and my inability to give the shooter my fullest attention, that he was unsafe to remain shooting, I asked him to leave the range.  He was not happy, but complied.

    I loved shooting and volunteering as an RO at RRGC, but I had issues with leadership, especially when I was informed that some unnamed alleged behavior of mine might have been inappropriate.  I was never given opportunity to redeem myself without having to face “interrogation,” which I simply was not about to subject myself to without appropriate legal representation.  But apparently, leading staff at RRGC weren’t so confident about whatever they had to say to me to face any potential challenges from legal counsel, so I was subsequently declared “unfit” as an RO, and when my club membership came up for renewal, I was not allowed to renew.  And now, here it is, two years after the fact, and I’m still not allowed to renew my membership.  I suppose problems with running the facility run far deeper than just little ol’ me; so much so that no one there has enough confidence in themselves or the facility to deal with whatever challenges their limited vision can only perceive as threatening.  That, my friend, is a very sorry state of affairs.

    As to the 20 years that you’ve been a member of RRGC, that’s irrelevant.  I’ve been an avid firearms sportsman for 51 years, and have served more than 38 months in direct combat against overwhelming hostile forces.  Firearms safety is my first concern, with proficiency second. And I’m always open to learning new things, for there’s always something new to learn.

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#2 Consumer Comment

A Good Old Boy Responds

AUTHOR: Larry - (USA)

POSTED: Thursday, September 15, 2016

I have been a member of the Roseburg Rod and Gun Club for about 20 years. It is an entirely volunteer organization. The only paid employee is the groundskeeper. It maintains a 100 acre site with a trap range, indoor and outdoor pistol ranges, rifle range and an archery range. All facilities are maintained by members and their donations. Actual dues are only $96/year, plus a typical $2 range fee if you actually shoot. 

The only problem I see with the original complaint is that he should not have used force against a shooter. As Range Officer, he could certainly have told the shooter to pack up and leave. Safety is always a major concern at any shooting range, and I have never seen any Range Officer criticized for emphasizing safety. 

As for the respondent who wanted the club to answer it's phone, it's never going to happen. Feel free to call club officers at home. The current president is Earl s****.>

That brings us to the "Good Old Boy" part. Yes, many of the members are old retired codgers. Many of us have been shooters for 50 or 60 years. We have served in wars and police departments. That doesn't mean we're going to cut any slack to a member who is losing his mental acuity and should not be around firearms. If we are going to ban a shooter from a range, we are going to get everyone together and hash it out face to face, not play "He said.." The club has a Zero Tolerance policy for unsafe behavior, but as Range Officer the OP needs to testify openly about what occurred. It's too bad he didn't meet with the club officers and give them a complete picture of what happened. 

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#1 General Comment

Roseburg rod and Gun Club....the Good 'Ol Boys club

AUTHOR: Izzy - ()

POSTED: Tuesday, July 08, 2014

Ted posted a complaint in Jan. of 2014 about the Roseburg Rod and Gun Club.

None of what he stated is any surprise to me at all.  All that he said is as true as it gets.


I too had an association with the Club, many years ago...and was a dues paying member.  Apparently nothing has changed.  I do not support them in any way and I do my very best to desuede people from joining the club.   Central Douglas County is sorely in need of a "real" rifle and pistol club, that respects and caters to all types of gun enthusiats.  One that doesn't take advantage of their volunteers.......has an OSHA approved indoor range....and one that actually answers the phone on a daily basis, instead of once in awhile.

Here is looking forward to the day, when the Roseburg Rod and Gun Club, has some serious competition by a viable business.....and the good 'ol boys are put out to pasture.....where they belong.





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