Report: #797935

Complaint Review: RotarySwing.com - Internet Internet

  • Submitted:
  • Updated:
  • Reported By: BJD — Houston Texas United States of America
  • RotarySwing.com 20750 County Road 455 Internet United States of America

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I took golf training eight years ago in Houston, TX.  My trainer was the best.  I've trained with some of the best but Alison Thietje was different than any other trainer.  Her concepts, her background, study, research, approach was so unique.  Being in early retirement, she was the only person that helped my golf game - period.  She relocated her business several years ago.  I friend from our club told me about RotarySwing.com.  I needed some tweaking and thought this might help.  It helped alright.  Chuck, the founder, worked with Alison (this is one reason she left Houston to begin with).  They were suppose to go into business together.  When I contacted him, I was told he and Alison parted ways.  He would not concide what he took from her - intellectual property and profit! He stole her materials, her terminology - she was unique.  He uses her lingo, word for word.  But he  dumped Alison.  He stole her business.  Was his training good - it was OK, but not as good as Alison and it's the first time I did anything like this on the internet. But he's a thief that can't be trusted. If he'll steal from her, who won't he cheat?  I've contacted Alison and I am going to help her launch her website. I hope she takes care of this Chuck - he is a rip-off and he can't be trusted. We live in a world where if a person can't be trusted, get them out of your life. she is still in his video's and doesn't get a dime.  See for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMqWLVDfz1o

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 11/14/2011 03:02 PM and is a permanent record located here: https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/rotaryswingcom/internet/rotaryswingcom-rotary-swing-chuck-quinton-golf-training-golf-swing-online-golf-intern-797935. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year. Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report. READ: Foreign websites steal our content

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#10 Consumer Comment

PROOF from 2003 of Alison's signature takeaway: the 2 inch scapula glide AND ALISON'S discovery on HOW to apply the push vs. pull law to the golf swing

AUTHOR: Alison - (United States)

POSTED: Friday, June 26, 2020

Note the article is dated June 2003 which is 17 years ago! The gentleman in the picture worked full time for me. His name is Travis Stiegman. I will be posting a zoom interview we did recently. He is one of MANY witnesses from Houston Texas that I created this after leaving the PGA TOUR as a "personal trainer" for major champions.  I did not train their swings. I was a personal trainer, designing workouts for golfers which is how I looked at the golf swing.

That's how I figured out the anatomical absolutes. It's the only knowledge I had about the golf swing. I trained Travis on all the "anatomical absolutes" for the golf swing, because that's what we did as a company. He still teaches it himself. The name of my company back then was Total Approach Golf. Google it. MUCH MUCH more to come. 

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#9 Consumer Comment

An update from Alison, founder of the anatomical absolutes for the golf swing

AUTHOR: Alison - (United States)

POSTED: Wednesday, June 24, 2020

Alison Thietje here. I am getting updated on everything there is about me on the internet. Of course this is of particular interest to me because it has to do with my life work. I happen to know the person who started this "debate" so to speak, and there is a "fake news" apology from this person saying Chucks program is different from mine, and they are sorry they posted the comment. This is FAKE and the person who started this stream did not write that!!!   

Any intelligent person that has worked with both Chuck and I know there is LITTLE to NO difference in what we teach because anatomical absolutes are "unchanging" by definition of the word!!!  Anyone who really understands musculoskeletal anatomy knows there is NO difference. Mere discussions "about" the golf swing, in sales pages or youtube videos that drive people to purchase a program,  doesn't change the underlying fundamentals that make the swing work.  What I mean by that is, just because myself or Chuck dialog or expand on the anatomical swing model, inevitably, it all points right back to the anatomical absolutes that make up the bulk of the swing model.  Period, end of story.

Sales by nature manipulates the public to buy products. It is the American way. Change how you say it, bring up different benefits, put the video out there and people think it's something "new" when in reality, it all leads back to the exact same anatomical absolutes that the swing model is founded on. If Chuck and I teach exactly the same

1)set up,

2)width of stance


4)top of back swing,

5)how to create a weight,

6)the fact that the weight shift on the downswing is the key to perfect impact position,

7)pull vs. push is optimal,

8) "The box ", someone please explain to me what else a golfer needs to know? What else is in the golf swing? Where are the additional "swing" mechanics or knowledge ABOUT the golf swing, that the "body mechanics" listed above hasn't already covered? Is there additional "swing mechanics" you can add to that model? NO! It is 100% anatomically complete and unchanging because it is built on absolutes.  I know, I built it myself and have taught it for over 20 years, I have 100's of witnesses, published magazine articles and video presentations on the anatomical absolute swing model and it has never changed because it can't change if it's truly an absolute!

I may change how I try to get a golfers brain and body connected to the movements, but the swing model has never changed. I will be doing updates on ripoff report over the next few months by providing verifiable proof  that I have been teaching this swing model for 20 years. I have no intention of discussing Chuck on these updated post. So if you want to post, don't bring him up! This is not about chuck, it's about my providing proof that I created this swing model as early as 2000.   

Chuck was given legal permission to teach my swing model, he was not given legal permission to claim he created it. So this report provides the public with evidence of the anatomical absolute swing model was created by and taught, by me, for 20 years.  May God be my witness. Thank you. 

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#8 General Comment

your charity and the medical industry

AUTHOR: Alison Thietje - (United States of America)

POSTED: Wednesday, September 12, 2012
P.S. I didn't know a thing about a charity! Sheesh......but my medical board is thinking of doing something within the medical industry to stop the lies. Doctors, PhD's and Professors look down on people who steal others work. In fact, they can loose their jobs at a college if they steal someones work, or maybe even if they endorse someone who did! If your board founds you out, I can promise you, they will no longer endorse you! I think I will leave it in the hands of lawyers and the medical industry. How about providing your customers PROOF, of where you learned the new set up and move 1,2,3,4. Just show them how you came up with it. I have so much proof of me teaching and researching what you call YOUR discovery and YOUR swing model....... and the truth is, you have no proof at all! In court you would not stand a chance convincing anyone that you came up with this swing model and you did not steal it from me! Not a chance! We will be contacting your medical board to present written and video proof of this being around LONG before I taught it to you and the Doctors who were there when it was developed. They also remember meeting you at our location. Orthopedic Associates. They remember it all and so do many many other people who were there.
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#7 General Comment

Alisons response again

AUTHOR: Alison Thietje - (United States of America)

POSTED: Wednesday, September 12, 2012

You steal someones 16 years of hard work and lie to the public and LIED to your new medical board and tell them YOU figured this out yourself and it's YOUR swing model and YOUR 15 years of research and hard work. Of course they endorse it, I designed it with MY medical board...maybe my board who helped me should contact your board and tell them just how long this has been around!!! Bottom line, you did not create RST, you got it from me and I taught YOU. When you lie to the public and tell them it's YOUR swing and YOU created it and YOU did the research, the public and your customers deserve to know the truth! BTW...there are numerous PGA Pro's and instructors who know my training and they are aware of what you did and you will NEVER be accepted by the PGA on any level. They know I created this and they know your a thief and a liar. Oh the tangled web we weave! Any intelligent person who can get a copy of your book that you had in print prior to meeting me, will know I am telling the truth. They can also google your history and golf blogs and old swings of you and your teaching. This is so easy to check out and discover who the liar is. BTW, you broke your neck.....ever think of Karma? What you did to me is beyond low. It stoops to the lowest of all levels. You will reap what you have sown. Its a law. Did you ever consider you stole my dream, therefore, you may have lost your own?

Oh, your response above? Again most intelligent people know your 9/11 mantra, your Non for profit, I am responsible for YOU not making the cut at Q school because I injured you, is a sham!  LOL that is hysterical..... ( tell Tom Watson that and Justin Leonard and Stewart Cink. They would call B.S.) Your working a little too hard there trying paint a wonderful picture of you as if you are the victim. Come on Chuck, your response really sunk you...I didn't have to reply at all!
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#6 REBUTTAL Owner of company


AUTHOR: RotarySwingGolf - (United States of America)

POSTED: Wednesday, September 12, 2012
Facts are facts and those are obvious and out in the open. Alison and I did work together for a short time and I did learn her concepts on how she thinks the golf swing should be taught. These concepts come from someone who has never broken 100 before on the course, and as you can read, thinks that golf swing mechanics and compressing the ball are the same thing as biomechanics. Of course, that makes no sense. Nor did more than 40 other things that myself, our Ph. D. Biomechanist from the US Olympics Committee Dr. Jeff Broker, nor Boston Celtics team doctor and noted orthopedic surgeon Dr. Brian Mckeon researched and found them to be medically and biomechanically inaccurate.  You can learn about our medical panel and their credentials here.

Because of this, there is no point in discussing this further. We simply changed our teaching methodology to coincide with what our team believed to be factual and moved on. Alison has long believed that she is the only one that is right as you can tell from her posts and that clearly our Ph. D's and MD's couldn't possibly know as much as her - a personal trainer who has never broken 100 swinging a golf club and isn't even a golf instructor. Myself, I've played professionally and taught more than 300 touring professionals over 17 years of teaching. You can simply decide for yourself which direction you'd like to take with your golf swing.

But, before you do, here's what Alison did for my swing the last time I saw her in 2009 when I invited her to come down to Castle Pines Golf Club where I was the teaching and playing professional. It was two weeks before PGA Tour Qualifying School and I was working on my swing and asked Alison to take a look. Within 5 minutes, she had me shanking it. Literally. I've never been a shanker in my life, so I looked at her completely bewildered. Terrifyingly, she looked back at me just as confused. She had no idea what she had done that all of a sudden caused me to start shanking it - 2 weeks before Q-School. She looked at me and simply said, "I have no idea what's causing that. That's YOUR job." So, if you think biomechanics and the movements of the club are one in the same and you feel that Alison understands the movements of the club.... Well, I can at least tell you this, she did get quick results!

At the end of the day, this is a business arrangement that didn't work. Partnerships rarely do and there are a multitude of reasons this one didn't. We've moved on and I moved on in a completely different direction than what Alison teaches years ago, so why she continues to beat a dead horse seems very obvious and cynical now.

As you know, I suffered a broken neck last year in a biking accident. Having undergone 5 surgeries in the past 15 months has obviously been very difficult on me and my family, not to mention that my golf swing is permanently changed because I can no longer rotate my head normally. Trying to make the best of this terrible situation, my wife and I decided to start a charity to help those with traumatic spinal injuries and wounded military veterans. Alison, in a vindictive and baseless attack, is trying to derail our charity getting off the ground. This is evidenced by the timing of her posts. Note that she never posted on here - she had her sister do it - until September 11, 2012 ---- The very same day that our charity was scheduled to go live. Coincidence? You decide... What kind of person attacks the launch of nonprofit charity that assists injured war veterans with learning to play golf?

Anyway, this is all just a really sad and futile attempt to derail something that will help a lot of people overcome terrible personal tragedy. If you'd like to learn more about how you can help those who have been injured get back on the golf course again, visit our website at http://www.RotarySwingHitandHope.org  
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#5 General Comment

Chucks own words

AUTHOR: Alison Thietje - (United States of America)

POSTED: Tuesday, September 11, 2012
Swing 2.0 Takes a Turn to Revolutionize Golf Instruction

Published on November
17, 2008 by Josh Eaton in Golf Instruction, News Releases, Research News, Rotary Swing Tour

Last week, I spent four days working with Alison Thietje of Motion Memory Golf in St. Louis, MO. Alison and I had been talking about teaming up because our ideas of the swing are so incredibly similar, but approached from two different angles. Im primarily concerned with sending the ball to the target with the proper compression, trajectory and shot shape and have developed a swing model that allows golfers of all levels to do that using the body as the primary mover in the swing. Alison is primarily concerned with how the body moves in the golf swing from a medical and biomechanical
perspective and uses neurokinetics to engrain muscle memory. Put the two together and you have a match made in heaven for golfers.

As a golf instructor who has always advocated the use of the core to power the golf swing, it was very exciting for me to work with someone who could explain the exact How to my What and Why in my swing model. Alisons teaching model she has developed is unlike anything else in the market place and fits perfectly with ALL aspects of Rotary Swing, including the Mushin Golf mental aspects and this has prompted us to look into moving further down the road with introducing a product to the golf market unlike anything ever seen before. We plan to show the golf world at large the irrefutable biomechanically correct way to swing a golf club that will be unlike anything youve ever seen before. The swing model is still very simple, in fact, even simpler, but there is a very specific way that it must be learned. In order to
best present our ideas to the world, we are looking into producing a DVD or set of DVDs that will completely change your understanding of the golf swing, so stay tuned as we get closer to this momentus occasion in golf instruction!


By the way Chuck, there is no difference between body mechanics and the compression of the ball , ball flight etc... This article is PROOF, you did NOT understand at all what I handed to you. You still thought your swing theory played a part. Truth is, I kindly and respectfully "replaced" the way you understood the golf swing and gave you the ball flight and compression on the ball etc...that you had always looked for! Again, your first paragraph, from an intelligent point of view, makes no sense at all.
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#4 General Comment

Alison's response to Chuck claims about their split.

AUTHOR: Alison Thietje - (United States of America)

POSTED: Tuesday, September 11, 2012
This is Alison Thietje. When I worked with Chuck he did not have any Bio-mechanical background or research. He did not have a medical advisory board. I brought MY board to HIM and MY swing model to make him the "front man" because I was a woman and was struggling with getting golfers to listen to me. Simple as that! I was fed up with being ignored, so I took my whole discovery, my research, my medical panel and brought it to him on a sliver platter and said, put your name on it and give me cut.

He states here he had a "team" of people or "his group" that I worked with and I learned plenty from his group. WHAT? There was NO group either. I learned NOTHING from Chuck. There was only "Chuck" and his current swing model which is for the public to read if you can find a used copy. It is called Rotary Swing. He meets me and does 180 in his swing model and launches Rotary Swing Tour, a swing model birthed of science, approved by a medical panel and birthed out of his 15 years of research???? That's not even logical that this guy could come up with this on his own!!!! People, do your homework, just use google and find out where Chuck has spent the last 15 years and where I have spent the last 15 years. Is there anything else in writing that supports this claim of 15 years of research? Did he sit on any boards like I did? Is there any place where his medical panel is listed BEFORE he met me? What about Bio-mechanics? Chuck do you still thinks there's a difference between bio-mechanics and swing mechanics! They are one and the same!

In Chuck's statement above, he said we disagreed on 40 points in the golf swing? LOL there aren't that many variables! Besides, I ONLY teach absolutes. You cannot dispute absolutes! I would not side nor did I care about any extra's he put on his swing model. It was only his opinion and my mantra has been for over 12 years, " No theories! No opinions! Only Absolutes! Yes, I have copies of all my writings, radio interviews and articles I wrote to prove this! Heck I have live video presentations, at Orthopedic Associates in St. Louis Missouri, teaching what Chuck claims to be HIS! This live presentation has a date on it and a room of 60 people as witnesses, 18 months before Chuck and I ever met!

You can't change a law. A swing founded on science and anatomical fundamentals, one built off of FACTS cannot be altered anymore than Chuck can alter the law of gravity! So what was it exactly that Chuck and I disagree on? List your 40 points and be careful.....I HAVE written and video proof of what I was teaching years before I gave it to you. Defamation of character? Are you calling me a liar Chuck? If I am telling the truth and your not, than it is YOU who is guilty of much more than just defamation of my character!  I have so much written proof its ridiculous. Not to mention I could fill 2-3 court rooms full of witnesses.

PUBLIC, do your homework and YOU decide who is telling the truth!

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#3 General Comment

My name is Alison Thietje and here is my story!

AUTHOR: Alison Thietje - (United States of America)

POSTED: Tuesday, September 11, 2012
My name is Alison Thietje. To begin with, you cannot change a law. I taught Chuck Quinton and still teach anatomical laws that I discovered years before Chuck and I ever met. I combined them with Newton's laws of motion. I divided the golf swing into four parts and called it move 1,2,3,4. I teach a new set up with the weight being back in the heels as a result of the hinging from the hips with a neutral spine. I taught Chuck and still teach the push vs. the pull principle.

I teach and discovered these anatomical laws which have a huge impact on injury prevention and getting golfers out of back pain. Chucks marketing strategy for discovering a swing born of science? I taught him that swing. Period! The "science" part of it which is the "laws" on which the swing model is built. You can't change or improve on a law Chuck. So if you changed my swing model, and its based on laws, just how do you do that? That's an oxymoron.

 I changed the following in Chuck Quinton's swing the first day we met.

Width of stance
More bend from the hip
Weight back in heels
Scapula takeaway
Shoulder and elbow flexion
Lean inside both heels'
Downswing with out keeping both feet planted which allowed him to make a lateral move, while he was on the balls of his feet and it was tearing up his knee and hip joint. Surgery had already been discussed as an option for Chuck's knee. I am so glad I could help me remain injury free and my swing model has now taken him to a +4 handicap? From i think a 3 to a +4! NICE.

I changed his arms, his set up, his shoulder turn, his hip turn....I changed and altered EVERYTHING about his swing and is current swing model as written in his first book. At the time, Chuck stated I knew nothing about the golf swing and I specialized in bio-mechanics and anatomy. ( I still have this in writing, the email he sent out to his members)  Well, there is NO difference between swing mechanics and body mechanics. They are one and the same. The average golfer didn't know that, but they are beginning to understand this now.

The swing model, based on anatomical fundamentals, move 1,2,3,4;  a golf swing founded on science, is my discovery. I can fill a room with written proof of MY work over the last 16 years as well as fill a court room with witnesses. My history and creditability is clear. I may have many faults, but this discovery is probably one of the most important discoveries in the history of golf instruction. I will not stand by and let anyone else take credit for my 16 years of hard work. Chuck may use it, legally, and sell it in the market place. But I also have a legal right to tell the truth of where it came from.
 I have launched my own website at mind-2-motion.com. Why settle for the map when you can have the territory. Why not get it straight from the founders mouth who understands it at a much deeper level. My partner says, " RT is like buying a backyard shed kit at Lowes. It's a shed. It will always be a shed. It can be nothing else but a shed! But YOU Alison, own the lumber yard.

I hate the fact the public has no means of testing the honesty products that are offered on-line. I recommend doing your homework on the person and finding out what they wrote in the past, where they spent the last 15 years of their life? Does it sound logical, based on this person history, that they have achieved what they claimed they have? Be smart. The internet can really help you find out whats true. Use good old common sense and take the time to search it out. Don't buy into the advertising!

To any golfer's who read this. Regardless of whether you learn from Chuck or Me, I am glad my research and my discovery has brought joy into your life. If your a Senior golfer, I am thrilled to help you maintain a life of playing good golf. To the aspiring Tour Pro, I hope my discovery plays a big part in helping you realize your dreams. I wish you all the best and I am so glad my message is getting out there and helping thousands of golfers turn their game around. Thank you and may your life be blessed as a result.

Alison Thietje

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#2 Author of original report

Positive Update

AUTHOR: BJD - (United States of America)

POSTED: Tuesday, January 17, 2012
Since my posting on 11/13/2011, I have been in contact with Chuck Quinton of Rotary Swing. As he did work with Alison at one time, he has gone on to develop his own successful program that is different from her program. Anything he has learned retained from her, he gives full credit to her. Chuck appears to be honest and I do not want him to suffer consequences due to my complaint.  Complaints on this site cannot be removed due to their regulations based on the First Amendment. I have not met Chuck or trained with him personally. I apologize for my knee jerk reaction that was posted on 11/13/2011.
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#1 REBUTTAL Owner of company

RotarySwing.com, Chuck Quinton, Rotary Swing Golf

AUTHOR: RotarySwingGolf - (United States of America)

POSTED: Tuesday, November 15, 2011
As usual, the internet brings out herds of uninformed people hiding behind a veil of anonymity. Rather than getting the facts, they draw conclusions on their own and post BS material. Long story short, Alison Thietje and I were in business together. After Alison signed a contract for us to work together, her then husband who she was married to only a few months got involved and wanted to redo the contract that had already been signed and executed because he didn't like the terms. There was no reason to renegotiate the enacted contract and so we decided to execute a 30 day termination clause that was in the contract and go out separate ways. In the end, Alison and I disagreed on over 40 points in the golf swing, so we would have gone separate ways because we believe and teach different things and have the science behind us, we feel, to back up the direction we have gone - which is teaching something very different than what Alison does. Alison learned a lot from our group and has been using my terminology with her students and changed many of her teaching principals to match mine as she realized she was wrong and I don't fault her for using my teaching as it makes her a better fitness coach, which is what she is, not a golf instructor.
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