Ripoff Report Needs Your Help!
X  |  CLOSE
Report: #799959

Complaint Review: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints - Salt Lake City Utah

  • Submitted:
  • Updated:
  • Reported By: Lyndon Lamborn — Mesa Arizona United States of America
  • Author Not Confirmed What's this?
  • Why?
  • The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints 50 E North Temple Salt Lake City, Utah United States of America

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints Mormon Mormon Church LDS Church LDS church and how it manipulates its members. Blatant meddling in politics, unethical for a tax-exempt organization. Salt Lake City, Utah

*Consumer Comment: Lyndon,

*Consumer Comment: FEDUP,

*General Comment: Please Get YOUR Facts Straight

*Consumer Comment: Lyndon,

*Consumer Comment: FEDUP,

*Consumer Comment: FEDUP,

*Consumer Comment: FEDUP,

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: thanks Karl and Lyndon

*Consumer Comment: FEDUP,

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: to "twort" not hate just Mormon FACTS

*Consumer Comment: Aha... ha... hahahaha... hahahahahahahahahaha!!

*Consumer Comment: FEDUP,

*General Comment: MITT THE MORMON SAYS 48% think

*Consumer Comment: SO

*General Comment: Why so much anger, and what are you afraid of?

*Consumer Suggestion: Mormonism Is a Cult - Is Romney Electable?

*General Comment: Mormons and Jews

*Consumer Comment: ***IMPORTANT TUESDAY MESSAGE: Please feel free to stay at this site and type in- HOME LOANS, and....

*Author of original report: Hypno Toad Loves His Warts

*UPDATE Employee: Pretty Funny

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Problem with Mormonism

*Author of original report: How I was affected personally - To Stacey

*Consumer Comment: This "Church" is a Cult 100%

*Author of original report: The Four Points

*Author of original report: Thanks Karl.

*General Comment: Get your facts straight

*Consumer Comment: all are 'false'

*Consumer Comment: To each their own

*Consumer Comment: Mormans

*Consumer Suggestion: Don't believe in false religions like the Mormons...

*Consumer Comment: Old hat

*Consumer Comment: Lyndon, Have you noticed the.......

*Consumer Comment: Oh, really ?

Show customers why they should trust your business over your competitors...

Is this
Report about YOU
listed on other sites?
Those sites steal
Ripoff Report's
content.
We can get those
removed for you!
Find out more here.
How to fix
Ripoff Report
If your business is
willing to make a
commitment to
customer satisfaction
Click here now..

What is it about the LDS Church which warrants the distinction of being singled out as a ripoff?  Isnt the Mormon church just like all the others, taking money from members to fund the day-to-day operations of the church? 

Four aspects of how the Mormon Church operates makes it a ripoff:
1.       Since 1959, the LDS Church does not disclose their financial holdings. Why the secrecy? Simple.  They are building an empire.
2.       Members who do not pay the prescribed 10% have privileges withheld.  This is extortion.
3.       New recruits are not informed of the sordid origins and evidence contradicting the foundational claims of the faith.  This is unethical.
4.       Blatant meddling in politics, unethical for a tax-exempt organization.


Learn more about the LDS church and how it manipulates its members in the book, Standing for Something More.  Read book reviews on Amazon.com. 

http://bookstore.authorhouse.com/Products/SKU-000259608/Standing-For-Something-More.aspx

FINANCIAL HOLDINGS & SECRECY

Since 1959, the LDS has not disclosed their financial vibrancy.  Only in the UK and Canada, where it is required by law, does the church come clean with their financial holdings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finances_of_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints).  The LDS church stands alone among the major religious denominations in the USA in this secrecy (The Mormon Corporate Empire, Beacon Press, 1985).  Time magazine estimated in 1996 that the church's assets exceeded $30 billion. After the Time article was published, the LDS church responded that the financial figures in the article were "grossly exaggerated." Oddly, the Church remained secretive in their actual holdings rather than clear up the controversy with a simple complete and auditable disclosure.  Three years later, annual revenues were estimated to be $5 billion, with total assets at $25 to $30 billion. Whatever the actual figure, about two-thirds of it is made up of facilities and the land they sit on, including thousands of meetinghouses and over 130 temples the LDS church operates worldwide, as well as educational institutions (mainly Brigham Young University).  The remaining assets include direct investments in for-profit businesses managed through Deseret Management Corporation. The church's holdings include:
         AgReserves Inc. - the largest producer of nuts in America (circa. 1997)
         Hawaii Reserves, Inc. - Miscellaneous church holdings in Hawaii. Along with the Polynesian Cultural Center (the leading paid visitor attraction in Hawaii) and Brigham Young University-Hawaii, Hawaii Reserves generated revenue of $260 million for the Hawaii economy in 2005.
         Farmland Reserve Inc. - 228,000 acres (923 km) in Nebraska,; 51,600 acres in Osage County, Oklahoma; and over 312,000 acres (1,260 km) in Florida (dba Deseret Cattle and Citrus).
         Bonneville International Corporation - the 14th largest radio chain in the U.S.
         Deseret Morning News - a daily Utah newspaper, second-largest in the state of Utah.
         Beneficial Financial Group - An insurance and financial services company with assets of $3.1 billion.
         The LDS Church owns and operates at least two hunting preserves; Deseret Land and Livestock, and Westlake Hunting Preserve in Utah County. Many LDS were appalled to learn about a Church-owned/run/sanctioned hunting preserve where missionaries are called to tend to flocks of birds and other animals so that they can multiply and be hunted for profit.

Only an entity afraid of what the exposure of the truth would bring is compelled to secrecy.

MONETARY EXTORTION

Tithing in most religions is considered a gift, but the LDS Church makes it an obligation. Fear is often used as a motivator to get people to pay a full tithing. The member often hears the term 'fire insurance' associated with tithing. He who is tithed shall not be burned at Christ's' 2nd coming. Malachi 8:10 is often quoted - "Will a man rob God, yet ye have robbed me".

The guilt placed upon Latter-day Saints can be considerable. Members are not considered in 'good standing' if they are not paying a full 10% tithe. They cannot attend the temple if they do not pay in full. They cannot have temple-related callings or any high-profile positions if not full tithe-payers. And those who are full tithe-payers are often counseled to then start paying generous fast offerings, contributing to the missionary fund, etc. Extracting as much money as possible is the theme, and guilt is always knocking at the door.  This is a destructive mind control technique, which in turn reinforces the escalation of commitment human bias. 

Why is tithing so emphasized in the LDS Church along with the companion statement that "The Lord Does Not Need Your Money"? We are sure that the Lord does not need the money, but why does "His True Church" put so much of an emphasis on it to make it a frequent topic of Sacrament Meeting talks, to put it in the Sunday School, Priesthood and Relief Society lessons, to create a novel way of teaching tithing to Primary children (i.e. the teacher gives the child ten pennies and she is asked to put one penny in the tithing envelope and give it to the Bishop). Why are members called to tithing settlement once a year and reminded to settle their unpaid tithes? Why are ward audits held? Why do Bishops receive letters from church headquarters warning them that their wards have given out more Fast Offering funds to members than was collected from their wards, and that they need to exhort their members to contribute more fast offerings?  John Heinerman and Anson Shupe, authors of Mormon Corporate Empire go on to say:

"The much publicized televangelists of the electronic church, such as the Reverends Jerry Falwell, Oral Roberts, and Jim Baaker, are small time by comparison [to the LDS church].  Likewise the millions of dollars of self-appointed messiahs like Sun Myung Moon, much ballyhooed by the sensationalist press, are not even in the same league."

What a ripoff!

SHAKY FOUNDATION

The Mormon faith is built on the foundation of a latter-day prophet, Joseph Smith, who was purportedly called by God to restore His true church, this being accomplished by direct revelation and restoration of authority through divine messengers from the heavens in 1820.  Besides taking Smith at his word, the primary evidence that the sincere investigator is given to evaluate this claim, are the revelations Smith received via translation from Egyptian-type writings; the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham, and other revelations from Smith.

What the investigator is NOT told, incredibly, is virtually criminal.  The sincere investigator deserves to know a bit more than just one side of the story, including:

1.       In the trial of 1826, Joseph Smith was brought before the court on charges of fraud (money digging for profit).  At this trial, Smith freely admits, under oath, that he was incapable of locating buried treasures using either his peep stone or while being carried away in vision.  Anyone that objectively studies the trial of 1826 will reach one sure conclusion: At this time of his life, Joseph Smith was in the business of making money by preying on the superstitions of the people.  Bear in mind that this is 6 years after the reported date of the First Vision where Smith claims he saw God and was given a divine mission to the restore the true gospel.  Does it make logical sense that a young man of 19 years that had experienced a visitation from God would find his way into this line of business?  

2.       The method of translation of the golden plates which supposedly produced the Book of Mormon was Smith looking into his hat through a peep stone.  The golden plates Smith claimed he possessed were never anywhere in sight during the so-called translation.  Every eyewitness account of the translation of the Book of Mormon describes Smith using this peep stone and hat method.  Russell M. Nelson, Dallin Oaks, and other church leaders have also confirmed this.  Does this sound like a method which would be used by a prophet of God or a con man?

3.       It is a documented fact (multiple accounts diaries, personal histories, and the LDS family search website) that Joseph Smith Jr. took multiple plural wives without the knowledge or consent of Emma.  If this was a commandment from God, why the secrecy?  He persuaded women who were already married to marry him.  Five different people (Joseph Smith, Joseph F. Smith, Benjamin F. Johnson, Mary Lighter, and Lorenzo Snow) assert that an angel of God with a sword commanded Joseph to institute polygamy or the angel would slay him.  This sound suspiciously like a ruse to convince women to get in bed with Smith, which apparently worked wonderfully well.

4.       The Book of Mormon cites cattle, elephants, sheep, horses, wheat, silk, chariots, steel, and glass, yet these things were unknown to native stone-age Americans when the European pioneers arrived.  And the Book of Mormon makes no mention of what DID exist in abundance on this continent; potatoes, corn, llamas, buffalo, etc. Yet the LDS church claims the book represents an accurate depiction of American history.  How does a culture forget how to make wheels?

5.       The other LDS canonized scripture which Smith purportedly translated from Egyptian is the Book of Abraham.  The original papyrus scrolls that Smith translated into the Book of Abraham were found in 1967 and authenticated by LDS and independent scholars.  Over a half dozen Egyptologists, including the expert hired by the Church, verified that the scrolls are Egyptian funerary documents typically found buried with mummies, and post-date the time of Abraham by 1500 years.  The information contained on these scrolls bears zero resemblance to the Book of Abraham and could not have been in Abrahams own hand as asserted by Smith.   Josephs own cross-reference showing the characters and the corresponding meanings is complete nonsense, according to every Egyptologist who has examined the documents, some of which are in Smiths own hand, according to handwriting analysts.  All of the participant diaries indicate that the work Smith did was purportedly a literal translation, not a revelation inspired by funerary documents and vignettes as some LDS apologists suggest.  None of the participants mention anything about funerary documents or excerpts from the Book of Breathings which are actually found on the papyri.  After examining all the facts, the serious investigator can only conclude that Joseph Smith was simply NOT capable of translating Egyptian.  And furthermore, the alphabet and grammar that Joseph took great pride in and quoted later in life were obviously contrived gibberish.  The evidence that this translation was a hoax is overwhelming and conclusive, and confirms Smith pattern of preying on the superstitions of the people to further his agenda.

The account of the first vision, where Smith purportedly received, in 1820, his calling from God and Jesus to be a prophet is not reconcilable with historical information.  Neither Joseph Smith nor anyone else prior to 1838 referred to the event at all.  Smith claimed intense persecution due to the vision as a teen, and it was during a time of great excitement on the subject of religion. However, no one, friend or foe, remembers any persecution or even a claim to have experienced a vision prior to 1827.  The persecution that began in 1827 was tied to money-digging and treasure hunting, not associated with a claim to have seen God.  Had Smiths mother Lucy heard her son say that Jesus Christ had personally instructed him to to go not after them and to not join any church because all of the ministers, creeds, and churches were an abomination in His sight, she and her several children certainly would not have joined the Presbyterians and worshipped with them from 1825 to 1828.  Historians agree that the (great excitement) revivals occurred in 1824-1825, citing fifteen documented sources.  No source can be found for an 1820 revival or any religious excitement that year, as claimed by Smith.  Having a young man claim to have seen God and Jesus Christ would surely have been the talk of the town and found its way into local papers, letters of local inhabitants, diaries, especially the diaries of the Smith family.  There are no such accounts from that time period, not from friends, family, or enemies.  Such a lack of third-party evidence defies all logic and reason.  Smith produced three versions of his history, the official history of Joseph Smith that is accepted as part of scripture was the third and last attempt.  The first two written histories made no mention of two personages in the vision.  It was only after other prominent church members began claiming that they had had visitations from heavenly beings did Joseph Smith remember that he had experienced a visitation from God and Jesus Christ, and that he had received a special directive to be the leader of the restoration.   ANY trial lawyer or judge will tell you that a witness that changes his story with each telling is an unreliable witness and his testimony is always set aside.  For what possible reason would a rational and reasonable person place credence in such flimsy story-telling?

Smiths own journal for May 1, 1843 says: I insert facsimiles of the six brass plates found near Kinderhook, In Pike County, Illinois, on April 23, by Mr. Robert Wiley and others, while excavating a large mound.  They found a skeleton about six feet from the surface of the earth, which must have stood nine feet high.  The plates were found on the breast of the skeleton and were covered on both sides by ancient characters.  I have translated a portion of them, and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found.  He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, King of Egypt, and that he received his kingdom form the Ruler of heaven and earth.  The six brass plates were actually fabricated out of copper by Wilber Fugate.  Fugate admitted having used acid to burn the engravings into the copper and make them look old, then placing them where they were sure to be found.   Smith fell headlong into this trap and was caught in a lie.  How can a reasonable person dismiss this behavior and accept other translations by Smith in good faith? 

The Church makes no apology for its selective story-telling policies.  Boyd K. Packer, a high church official, has said that some things which are true are not very useful.  Dallin Oaks, another high church official, said Balance is telling both sides.  This is not the mission of the official church literature

What a ripoff!

POLITICAL MEDDLING AND BIGOTRY

While the LDS vehemently denies its involvement in political issues, they simply cant resist.  With $30 billion net worth and great cash flow, the temptation to put some of that horsepower to work to affect the laws of the land is simply too great.  The LDS church was recently caught red-handed orchestrating the crusade against same-sex marriage in Hawaii in the 1990s and Proposition 8 in California in 2008.  An insider whistle-blower managed to smuggle evidence of these conspiracies to reporters.  The evidence is well presented in the documentary film Proposition Eight, the Mormon Proposition.  See also www.mormongate.com.  How many other political involvements have there been over the years?  We may never know.  But even ONE involvement exposes the LDS as being unethical in meddling with politics, at the same time exposing their bigotry.  My friend Lawn Griffiths sums it up quite succinctly:

"I have grown weary covering the issue of gays in the church.  That gays and lesbians deserve full acceptance and participation in the life and leadership of congregations [and Government] is self-evident.  That traditional marriage is threatened by gay marriage is no more valid than that adopting children will compromise the legitimacy of ones own natural children and the family unit.  Or than blacks or Asians marrying whites would destroy traditional marriage.  Bigotry is always an exercise in rationalization."

What a ripoff!

In summary, all the LDS church has to do is discontinue these four practices, and I will gladly retract this ripoff report.  The following actions are required:

1.       Disclose their full financial holdings, independently audited, each year.
2.       Make paying 10% tithing voluntary, no privileges would be withheld from those who do not pay.
3.       Inform all current membership and new recruit prospects of the sordid origins and evidence contradicting the foundational claims of the faith.  Balanced story-telling is part and parcel to basic ethics.
4.       Cease the meddling in politics.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 11/19/2011 07:43 PM and is a permanent record located here: https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/salt-lake-city-utah-/the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-mormon-mormon-church-lds-church-lds-church-799959. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year. Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report. READ: Foreign websites steal our content

Search for additional reports

If you would like to see more Rip-off Reports on this company/individual, search here:

Report & Rebuttal
Respond to this report!
What's this?
Also a victim?
What's this?
Repair Your Reputation!
What's this?

Updates & Rebuttals

REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
4Author
26Consumer
3Employee/Owner

#33 Consumer Comment

Lyndon,

AUTHOR: Karl - ()

POSTED: Sunday, March 16, 2014

Do you think that Mitt Romney will run for President again in 2016?

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#32 Consumer Comment

FEDUP,

AUTHOR: Karl - ()

POSTED: Monday, March 18, 2013

Feel free to type in 284134 at this website and read what is posted in Consumer Comment #1 at Ripoff Report #284134 for important information. Ten months after that consumer comment was posted at this site, the stock market crashed and the financial system in the USA collapsed. Have a great day!

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#31 General Comment

Please Get YOUR Facts Straight

AUTHOR: Archie - (United States of America)

POSTED: Friday, February 15, 2013
DeeLana, I read your response to Lyndon Lamborn's remarks and I have a rebuttal of my own.  You accuse him of not having his facts straight, yet your accusations are based more on emotion than fact. Here are the FACTS.

First, I would like to say that on your 4 reasons that make the church a rip off: All of the facts that you have used are misinterpretations of what the church is really all about.  You have taken the facts that you have learned and twisted them to make them fit the message you are trying to relay.

What facts have been twisted, DeeLana?   The FACT that Joseph Smith was found guilty of glass-looking?  If you read the transcript of the 1826 trial, you will learn that this trial was not about the Book of Mormon or gold plates, as you seem to think.  It was regarding his use of a peep stone to try to find buried treasure for people who paid him for this service.  Joseph never did find any buried treasure, and the nephews of one of his clients, Josiah Stowell, sued him in court for taking advantage of their uncle, and Joseph was found guilty.  This peep stone was the same one he used to put into his hat when he was transcribing the Book of Mormon. Here is a link for the FACTS:
http://www.mormonwiki.org/Joseph_Smith_and_money-digging

On your #4 reason you claim that they meddle in Politics. This is true of the members as we have the rights of any American! But of the Church as an establishment there is not. Members may participate in any political standing, whether by just voting or getting more involved. The organization as you call it, is not directly involved. We as members are not told who to vote for; only that we should follow our own instincts and vote for the people that best fit our needs as individuals not as a religion. Those in the north and south are not told to only vote for a particular party, but to vote for someone who has the qualities that we desire our government to have. If this comment is because we have members becoming government officials and some who are even vying for the job as President, it is the individuals choice, not the Organizations choice.

You are the ones who needs to get your FACTS straight, DeeLana.  You obviously did not do any research on the www.mormongate.com website, or you would have seen just how much the Church is involved in political fund raising and other political involvements to further its agenda.  Lamborn's argument did not have anything to do with individual members political involvements; it spoke entirely to the organization of the Church itself.  The documents on the mormongate website very clearly show letters written on official Church letterhead to Church officials and others on the subject of fund raising and other political involvements on these issues.

Second, I would like to address the issue of tithing. It isnt mandatory! It is a personal choice. Tithing is a very private matter that is mostly between the individual and the Lord. Our Members are not required to pay tithing, only encouraged to pay the tithe that the Lord has asked for everyone. It is in every Bible that I have ever seen no matter what version it is. If fear is used, then shame on the person who is doing so. The church itself does not use fear as a tool to make members pay. In the lessons that you describe you fail to mention that we repeat all of the Lords lessons to remind ourselves of what the Lord wants of his people.

Every topic from the faith of  mustard seed, to tithing, to living to the best of our ability, is discussed and re-discussed to keep the members as knowledgeable about the Lords gospel. It is true that the Lord doesnt need our money, but he wants to see if we are faithful and obedient enough to follow the commandments. Then the church uses this money to further the Lords teachings. Tithing and other offerings are used to do many good things within and without the church. You are correct that the church uses the money to build churches, temples, and to maintain those buildings. But there is more. It provides money for each ward, stake and branch to function. It helps the missionary program because it costs a lot of money to send our young men to places and feed them and get them to those places. It provides money to educate the youth. It provides the means to print the materials needed to inform people and teach the Lords gospel. It also helps pay for the work that we believe needs to be done in family history and temple work. It helps provide food, clothing and other materials to those who are in need. They donate so much money, food, and time to feed and clothe the poor. All of which are to better the people of the world, the Lord is Lord of all, not just the members of the Church of Latter Day Saints.

You are correct when you make the claim that without paying our tithing we are not allowed to participate in the Temple. But there is one thing you are missing. I am a full tithe payer and I personally do not pay a cent to the ward. I am not making any money and so I personally have no income. As such I am a full tithe payer. Until recently my husband had the same view you did on tithing. That it is just a way for the church to swindle us out of our money. Until the church helped us by paying our bills when we were down on our luck; there were no expectations for us to pay it back or any obligations that we had to do in order to receive the help. He has seen firsthand what the church truly is about when it comes to tithing. So there is no mind control, guilt trips, or schemes to get money. Our leaders are not sitting high on the hog because of this wealth. They are not treated like Kings while the rest of us break our backs to pay for them to do their callings. Every member is asked to do 100% to fulfill their callings no matter what the calling is.

If, as you say, there were no obligations that you had to do in order to receive church assistance,  that is a new policy for the church.  I served twice as a Relief Society President, and I know for a fact that the church has for years required those who receive church assistance to do some kind of job in return for receiving that assistance.  It was part of the whole mindset of not just giving out a dole, but to have the member provide some service in return. Ive known those who cleaned the building, worked in the Bishops storehouse, and did other services when they were receiving church assistance.   

Also, it is a fact that unless you are a full tithe payer, you cannot receive a temple recommend.  If you cannot go through the temple to receive your endowment and get eternally married, you will not be allowed to go into the highest kingdom in the next world.  According to statistics, this means that the majority of members of the Church will not be allowed into the highest heaven after they die.  For you to say that members are not required to pay tithing is a misnomer.

I am saddened to see that you have taken facts that are known and as I said before, twisted them to make sense for the purpose of this message. Your facts are incomplete and skewed. For starters had the trial of Joseph Smith been 6 years he would have been 20, beings that he was 14 at the time of the first vision.

You apparently did not read the article carefully.  The trial was in 1826, and since Joseph Smith was born in 1805, he was 19 years old at that time.  This was when he was still involved in money-digging.  These are the FACTS, unskewed and complete. 

If you study the life of Joseph Smith in its entirety, you would find that he was a simple man who lived simply. If he had been doing this as a business venture then he sure didnt live the high life.

On the contrary, he did live the high life.  He was supported by the church, who built him a Mansion House in Nauvoo, was elected the Mayor of that city, as well as General of the Nauvoo Militia, with 3,000 men under his command.  He loved to dress up in his uniform and ride his white horse around the town.  He had portraits drawn and painted of himself, he entertained frequently, took parties for steamboat rides on the river, and was known as a genial host to his guests.   He ran for political office and was considered next to God by his people.  Not exactly "a simple man who lived simply".

He was beaten, tarred and feathered, starved, and many times was imprisoned wrongly.

Much of the persecution that Joseph Smith endured was due to his teaching and secretly marrying many wives, some of them married to other men, and others as young as 14 years old.  The night he was tarred and feathered, he was almost castrated by a local doctor who at the last minute decided not to go through with it.  These men were furious with him for seducing their sisters and other female relatives, and secretly teaching other high officials in the church to do the same.  

I would like to know where it is that you get your information as to all of this.  

If you truly want to learn the facts of these things, all you have to do is a google search on Joseph Smith and Polyandry, Joseph Smith, General of the Nauvoo Militia, and other similar topics.  This link will show you the plural wives of Joseph Smith: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/94VB-H11

Here is a link to the churchs apologist webpage, FAIR, where they discuss the topic of Joseph Smiths many wives: http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Polygamy/Polyandry

Another website that is very well organized is http://www.mormonthink.com/


You have so many facts that if you truly knew the gospel then you wouldnt have your facts the way that they are in your long bashing of the church. Like your fact #4. The American history that it depicts does not have to be North America.  As to the trial of Joseph Smith in 1826, I think you need to get all the facts before you like others, claim that this is unaltered material that accuses Joseph Smith of any misdeeds. I would like to state that this document whether true or not has one flaw, in 1826 Joseph had seen the plates of gold, but had not been allowed to remove them from where he had found them. He was not able to do so until 1827! And further more was not able to be a glass looker as he had no access to the plates and the tools used to translate it until after this alleged trial!

No, DeeLana, you are the one who is basing her argument on something other than the FACTS.  This trial was not about the Book of Mormon.  It was about Josephs money-digging, where he took money from people in exchange for looking into his peep stone to find buried treasure.  So, your argument is based on a flawed premise.  But, since you brought up the subject of the Book of Mormon and the plates, it is a FACT that he did NOT use the gold plates in his transcription of the Book of Mormon.  He again used the rock in the hat method that he had previously used to search for buried treasure, for which he was found guilty of glass-looking.  See the July 1993 issue of the Ensign, p. 62, where Apostle Russell M. Nelson tells the story of how Joseph used the rock in his hat to dictate the Book of Mormon.  Interestingly, the photo that accompanies this story does not show Joseph translating as the story describes, but rather gives the false impression that he was using the gold plates.  This is one example of how the Church misrepresents the FACTS.   

As I read your message of the Churchs history and how it is a scam, I wish that you would dig deeper into the gospel itself. Base not your opinions on whether Joseph was credible or not, for most of what you read is here-say any way, but base it off of your own personal feelings.

DeeLana, this is the classic fall-back for anyone in the church who finds that the historical facts do not match what the church teaches about the origins of the only true and living church on the face of the earth.  Dont face the facts; just pray and get a warm feeling about it.  What if someone prays and does NOT get a warm feeling?  There must be many people who do that, because the missionaries teach thousands of people every day all over the world, but only a fraction of them consider that they have gotten that burning in their bosom.  I believe in having faith, but faith has to be based on the truth, not what I want to believe.  The Bible says, PROVE all things; hold fast that which is good. (I Thessalonians 5:21)  It also says that we cant always trust our hearts: the imagination of mans heart is evil from his youth(Genesis 8:21), and He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool (Proverbs 28:26).

Read the scriptures and pray earnestly to know if it is true or not true. Find out for yourself; do not let anything that you have read or heard sway you. If you have the same opinion when you are finished with the entire book and have prayed for an answer of the Lord, then good for you, but dont bash those who have the opinion that it is true.

DeeLana, do you really think that the author of this article has NOT read the scriptures many times? It is so trite to say, Read the scriptures and pray about it.  I have listened to Lyndons experience and I hear a man who has been an active, temple-recommend carrying member from his youth, one who served a mission and was raised in a True Blue Mormon family, who served in leadership positions, and you think he didnt read his scriptures and pray about it?  

My prayer is that you and those who have this opinion of the church would first seek the answers of the Lord.  

The Lord said to study it out in your mind, and then pray about it.  How can you receive a valid answer if you are asking with incomplete information?   

I have no right to bash the things that you believe in no matter what religion you are; and you have no right to bash anyone as well. We are on this earth to find for ourselves what we believe and to follow the counsels of the Lord. I do not go around condemning any other church for what their members do and neither should you.  

DeeLana, it is not bashing to tell the FACTS.  In fact, we have been told by an Apostle to expose any deception:   "This book (of Mormon) must be either true or false. If true, it is one of the most important messages ever sent from God... If false, it is one of the most cunning, wicked, bold, deep-laid impositions ever palmed upon the world, calculated to deceive and ruin millions... If, after a rigid examination, it be found an imposition, it should be extensively published to the world as such; the evidences and arguments on which the imposture was detected, should be clearly and logically stated, that those who have been sincerely yet unfortunately deceived, may perceive the nature of deception, and to be reclaimed, and that those who continue to publish the delusion may be exposed and silenced Apostle Orson Pratt, Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon, Liverpool, 1851, pp. 1-2

If Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, the Book of Abraham, and other aspects of the early history of the church cannot withstand scrutiny, they should be exposed. 

Are the Catholics scammers and liars, or the Baptists and so on, No, but many of their members lie, cheat and steal. But that does not mean that the religion can be categorized and generalized as thieves and liars. People no matter what religion are human and everyone of us have faults. Each of us no matter the belief are capable of terrible things.

Yes, human beings do lie, cheat, and steal.  However, we hold a prophet of God to a little higher standard because he claims to be speaking for and representing God. The church teaches that we must live a certain level of morality, such as being honest with our fellowmen, in order to warrant the companionship of the Holy Ghost.  It is Joseph Smiths dishonesty in deceiving his people by pretending to translate the Book of Mormon by using his peep stone in his hat, (not even using the gold plates); pretending to translate the Egyptian papyri for the Book of Abraham; pretending to be able to translate a portion of the fake Kinderhook plates; and repeatedly deceiving his own wife by secretly marrying other women, that tells me that he did NOT have the Holy Spirit with him to translate anything or to receive authority from God to do anything.  How could a man who was disobeying this basic principle of honesty possibly be a prophet of God?

I am sorry that you do not approve of the members of the Latter Day Saints to stay involved in their surroundings.

Lamborn did not say he did not approve of membersto stay involved in their surroundings.  Just because he is not staying involved in a manner you would approve does not mean he is not involved; he is.  He is involved in exposing the wicked imposition of which he has become aware.  

We like all human beings want our beliefs to be respected and upheld. Just as the Gays want to be allowed to be married, the LDS and many other religions have the desire to keep the Lords commandments that a man must marry a woman. We as Saints have the right to want to uphold our beliefs and have a say in our communities, governments and in the world.  The gospel of the Lord makes the statement of marriage and we stand behind what we believe.  

You have a perfect right to believe whatever you choose, but please do your homework so you can have the FACTS to uphold rather than misrepresentations.  

To make demands as to what the church must do in order for you to think they are not a scam is preposterous. That would be like telling you that you are to expose everything that you have in your life. You must tell the world how much money you have, make and what you do with it all!

There have been many people who have had to expose everything they have in their life, anyone running for public office or public appointment, for example.  Other churches make their financial dealings open to their members, why not the LDS church?  They used to do it until 1959, why not now?

As I said before, tithing is voluntary so that action is already taken care of.

Tithing is not voluntary if you have any desire to go to the temple and be allowed into the highest heaven after you die.   

Members are encouraged to learn of all the history and teachings that are in the church, if they chose to not learn it that is their business.  

Members are NOT encouraged to learn of the history of the origins of the church.  Those who do, even CES and Institute teachers, have been excommunicated for doing so. Ken Clark and Grant Palmer are two recent examples. The church makes a continual effort to misrepresent and cover up the FACTS about unpleasant aspects of early church history by glossing over them in manuals and lessons.  The FACTS are referred to as disease germs and those who expose them are reprimanded. google Boyd K. Packer's talk on 'spreading disease germs' for a chilling example of church censorship.

And meddling in politics is the right of every individual. Do you vote? Then you are a meddler too.

Wrong.  Voting is not meddling.  Using the combined power of millions of dollars and influencing followers to vote a certain way, is.  

Or like them are you just one that wants your voice heard? Think about what you have written and look in the mirror. Is your life so perfect and without blemish that you can cast stones?  

I have noticed that whenever someone can no longer argue their point substantively, they resort to personal attacks.  If you read his book, Standing for Something More, Lamborn is very candid about his life and the experience he had with the church.  You need to get your FACTS straight before making aspersions such as this.  


Respond to this report!
What's this?

#30 Consumer Comment

Lyndon,

AUTHOR: Karl - (USA)

POSTED: Saturday, February 02, 2013

Have you noticed that the commercials portraying the Mormons are no longer being aired on TV like they were in 2011?

Have a great weekend!

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#29 Consumer Comment

FEDUP,

AUTHOR: Karl - (USA)

POSTED: Tuesday, November 20, 2012

Did you get a chance to 'Google' the following and watch the videos and read the related articles on the web?

1) ISRAELI CITIZENS COME UNDER FIRE AS WAR BREAKS OUT BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS
2) DEATH TOLL RISES AS ISRAEL POUNDS GAZA STRIP

Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#28 Consumer Comment

FEDUP,

AUTHOR: Karl - (USA)

POSTED: Wednesday, October 24, 2012

Did you get a chance to watch the video listed in 'Consumer Comment #27'?

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#27 Consumer Comment

FEDUP,

AUTHOR: Karl - (USA)

POSTED: Monday, October 08, 2012

Feel free to 'Google' this- THE ASCENT OF MONEY PBS, and watch the episode entitled 'Bonds of War' on the web.

It appears that history is being repeated all over. Stock values were being kept high three hundred years ago because money was being printed and injected into the system, just as it is being done today. Property values also declined significantly three hundred years ago, just as they have in the past few years. People were also revolting against their governments three hundred years ago, just like they are doing today.

The money that was being printed and injected into the system three hundred years ago also caused inflation, just like it has today. Gasoline prices and food prices have risen dramatically in the past few years, right?

It looks as though another collapse of the system is imminent, in my opinion.

Have a nice day.

P.S. It also appears that another war, a big one, might break out soon in the Middle East. That could make oil prices soar to well over $150 a barrel, right? I just saw on the News today that gasoline prices are near $6 a gallon in California. 



Respond to this report!
What's this?

#26 REBUTTAL Owner of company

thanks Karl and Lyndon

AUTHOR: FEDUP - (United States of America)

POSTED: Friday, October 05, 2012

Karl I will check it out Thanks and.Lyndon thanks for your book I
will get it and send it to my sister after I read it. Unfortunately my sister is in deep with mormonism and will probably think your informative book is the devil as you know how mormons think !! But what's even worse is to think Mitt is trying to take over Presidency and America!! I know ALOT about this CULT and I'm EXTREMELY CONCERNED!! VOTE OBAMA VOTE VOTE VOTE!!

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#25 Consumer Comment

FEDUP,

AUTHOR: Karl - (USA)

POSTED: Tuesday, October 02, 2012

Feel free to 'Google' this- WHO OWNS THE FED?, and go to the site with the five charts in order to see who ultimately controls the U.S. government and Wall Street.

Then 'Google' this- WHO OWNS THE FED BANK WHO CONTROLS WHO VIDEO, and watch that video on the web for additional information.

Have a nice day.

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#24 REBUTTAL Owner of company

to "twort" not hate just Mormon FACTS

AUTHOR: FEDUP - (United States of America)

POSTED: Sunday, September 30, 2012

Thank goodness we have freedom of speech to EDUCATE PEOPLE ON VERY IMPORTANT ISSUES.
THINK ABOUT THIS TOO~~~if Mitt Romney became president how many of the radical Mormon mind control, crazy cult ideas would he TRY TO IMPOSE ON AMERICANS IN THEIR DAILY LIFE,
one example, to take freedom of speech away as MORMONS HAVE MANY FREEDOMS TAKEN IN ORDER FOR THE church to be worth BILLIONS, IT REQUIRED the freedom to think independently and with FACTS to be stripped away in addition to using FEAR AMONGST THE FOLLOWERS.

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#23 Consumer Comment

Aha... ha... hahahaha... hahahahahahahahahaha!!

AUTHOR: twort - (United States of America)

POSTED: Friday, September 28, 2012

Haha.... ha.  hahahaha.  hah... aaaaahhh.... hahahahahahahahahahaha! I love hate. Keep it coming!

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#22 Consumer Comment

FEDUP,

AUTHOR: Karl - (USA)

POSTED: Wednesday, September 26, 2012

Did you know that 100% of the politicians in America rely on handouts from the American people? Tax revenue from Americans, which could also be considered 'handouts', is what allows the politicians to have their wonderful salaries, health care, and pensions.

Feel free to learn more about the handouts that our politicians are receiving by 'Googling' the following video and watching it on the web- AMERICA: FREEDOM TO FASCISM

Thank You

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#21 General Comment

MITT THE MORMON SAYS 48% think

AUTHOR: FEDUP - (United States of America)

POSTED: Wednesday, September 26, 2012

They are victims, entitled to handouts, who don't work, and he is NOT CONCERNED about "those" people because they will vote for Obama no matter what just like people will vote for him no matter what he does.

1. Entitled to handouts REALLY MITT, Wonder how many times YOU got HANDOUTS FROM YOUR DADDY, FROM BLINDED BRAIN WASHED MORMONS, POLITICAL DONATIONS AND WHO KNOWS WHAT ELSE!!

2. VICTIMS, REALLY MITT, YOU KNOW PLENTY about VICTIMIZING!

3. Mitt thinks all that matters to get votes is power of money and he can do no wrong in eyes of mormons~ of course he knows they have been trained to ONLY believe what MORMONS TELL THEM.

BUT of course, intelligent rational people see Mitt for the INCOMPETENT, ARROGANT, LIAR THAT HE GENUINELY HAS PROVEN to be.

4. Mitt even said HIMSELF He does NOT care about those other people. WE MUST H AVE A PRESIDENT WHO CARES ABOUT MORE THAN HIS GROUPIES.

5. MORMONS THINK ONLY MORMONS ARE WORTHY OF GOING TO HEAVEN AND MEN TURN INTO GODS PLEASE, JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE HOW TO PUT YOURSELF ON A PEDESTAL!! Also good way to create more distrust.

I HAVE NEVER BEEN A MORMON, AND BY READING THEIR COMMENTS SHOWS WHY~ because mormons get real ugly when rational people use FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Has NOTHING TO DO WITH BASHING OR any other of their ridicules defensive ideas..

SIMPLY PUT ~~~MANY AMERICANS HAVE LEGITIMATE BIG CONCERNS ABOUT

MITT ~~~ YOU CAN READ HIS FACE AND EYES ALONE~~~

BUT SOME PEOPLE WOULD NOT KNOW IF A SNAKE BIT THEM

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#20 General Comment

Why so much anger, and what are you afraid of?

AUTHOR: donttrash - (United States of America)

POSTED: Tuesday, July 17, 2012

When I first started reading the first post that started the discussion, I wondered whether you were LDS in the past. Well, I guess now I have my answer. Thank you for mentioning that you used to be a member. Now my question is: what is it that you are afraid of? what is it that you don't want other people to know about yourself? What are you hiding? This happens a lot with ex-members, they try to find faults with the Church because they can't live up to the Church's teachings, or most often they have not been able to (adultery, not keeping the Word of Wisdom, etc.) It is much easier for them to blame the Church rather than to admit they are the ones who are wrong. 

Instead of going on and on about that, I will just quote the following:

Post by DeeLana Searle: 

" Think about what you have written and look in the mirror. Is your life so perfect and without blemish that you can cast stones? "

Post by HypnoToad:

" he's exploiting this website to sell his book" (talking about you of course)

"What these things always boil down to -- and have ever since there ever was a church anywhere -- is one of two things:
a) Guy joins church, can't uphold church standards, gets kicked out, rebels against church...not exactly like Cain and Abel, but you get the idea. Or b) Guy doesn't like church's position on something and tries to tear down church,
claiming to have secret information that illegitimizes church."

Personally, I would go with #1 in your case, but I'm convinced your reason is either one of them.

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#19 Consumer Suggestion

Mormonism Is a Cult - Is Romney Electable?

AUTHOR: Tired of Scammers - (USA)

POSTED: Tuesday, July 17, 2012

My dad showed me a video called "The Godmakers," when I was a child. It did not go as far as the Southpark episode in disclosing the fraudulent behavior of Joseph Smith, but focused on how the Mormon theology is distinct from Biblical Christianity.

In law school, I learned from a drinking buddy (ex-Mormon) about a what I now know is a common tale: his dad, like Joseph Smith at one point, was a free Mason. When the family took the plunge to become "temple Mormons" and the dad realized the ceremony was a copy of a free Mason ritual, he realized something was amiss, did some investigating, and eventually got the family out. This tale repeats itself with many Mason Mormons. This is an example of how right-thinking people behave when information comes to their attention. However, what a cult encourages people to do is not ask too many questions under penalty of ostracism from the collective: the typical way of handling dissent when they do not have answers. When people like Mitt Romney and Glenn Beck purport to have the intellect and integrity to unravel the enormous problems faced by the country/world, and cannot unravel a fraud so obvious to any reasonable person, there are only two conclusions that can be drawn: 1) They lack the intellectual capacity most possess to objectively consider facts; or 2)They choose to ignore the inconvenient facts because perpetuating the fraud is profitable to them.

Most Americans are largely ignorant of the shaky underpinnings, cultlike inner workings, and political meddling of the Mormon faith. My wife and I are dyed in the wool Republicans, but my wife still does not know if she can vote for a Mormon. If one of the Obama superpacs decides to donate 50 million dollars to one of the existing Christian organizations that exists solely for the purpose of informing Christians that mormonism is theologically distinct from Biblical Christianity, or the Obama pet DOJ should start getting a lot more agressive about investigating the clear evidence of LDS church political meddling, it could finally expose the LDS church on the grand scale that it has avoided to date with its influence peddling.

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#18 General Comment

Mormons and Jews

AUTHOR: bobt - (United States of America)

POSTED: Monday, July 16, 2012

Mormonism to me is a veiled type of Judaism. Wikipedia has a long article comparing the two religions. You have to believe that ancient Jews came to America in 600BC, practiced Judaism, then Jesus came and converted them.....
The Book of Mormon tells of families of the Tribe of Manasseh and the Tribe of Ephraim that migrated from Jerusalem to an unknown location in the Americas. According to Mormon doctrine, this migration fulfilled the prophecy of Jacob on his son, Joseph: "Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall" (Genesis 49:22). The Book of Mormon also tells of a group from the Tribe of Judah who came to the Americas after its defeat by Babylon around 600 BCE.

Mormons baptize dead Jews!!!! That is common knowledge.
from wikipedia:
The doctrines of the Latter Day Saint movement, commonly referred to as Mormonism, teach that its adherents are either direct descendants of the House of Israel, or are adopted into it. As such, Judaism is foundational to the history of Mormonism; the Jewish people are considered a covenant people of God, held in high esteem, and are respected in the Mormon faith system. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is consequently very philo-Semitic in its doctrine.

and..
The LDS Church includes among its traditional symbols the Star of David, which has been the symbol of Judaism since at least the 13th century.[35] For the LDS Church, it represents the divine Israelite covenant, Israelite regathering, and affinity with Judaism; a Star of David is prominently depicted in a stained glass window in the landmark Salt Lake Assembly Hall.

They were undergarments similar to that of orthodox Jews. The believe when Jesus returns we will all become Jews. 

Jews and Mormons control our government and monetary system.

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#17 Consumer Comment

***IMPORTANT TUESDAY MESSAGE: Please feel free to stay at this site and type in- HOME LOANS, and....

AUTHOR: Karl - (USA)

POSTED: Tuesday, March 06, 2012

read the Ripoff Reports for important information if you have a mortgage in the USA.

Then type in all of the following at this site and read the Ripoff Reports for additional information if you have a mortgage-

MERRILL LYNCH
COUNTRYWIDE
GMAC
INDYMAC
LITTON LOAN
OCWEN
BANK OF AMERICA
WELLS FARGO
US BANK
CHASE
ONE WEST BANK
HAMP
MODIFICATION
MORTGAGE

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#16 Author of original report

Hypno Toad Loves His Warts

AUTHOR: Lyndon Lamborn - (United States of America)

POSTED: Tuesday, December 06, 2011

I have had other TBMs (True Blue Mormons, or TaliBan Mormons) make similar assertions about my book - how it is just recycled this and old hat that. Then they read it and change their tune. Name me a book that delineates the points of mind control, and how the LDS church employs them.

Hmmn. Cat got your tongue? How many books have you read that describe how to recognize destructive mind control in organizations and how to avoid them? How many books discuss how religions in general, and the LDS faith specifically, prey on innate human biases to hem in their sheep? How many include a transcript of a disciplinary council? Contain a letter from the Stake President threatening to announce to all the wards in the stake my excommunication for apostasy? I could go on. The only reason I wrote a book was to compile all this helpful information for recovering ex-mormons and immunize never-mormons from its tentacles, because I could not locate a book which took this approach. And I looked. Your assertions regarding the content of my book are as shallow and they are disingenuous.

I could fill your mailbox with letters of appreciation from readers of my book.  I have shared a few of these letters with family and close friends, and some bring tears. It has simply been the most rewarding endeavor of my life to date.  It helps people.  Several have said they read the book more than once, it was so instructive.  Others said it has been their favorite recovery from Mormonism book.  I doubt the book will ever pay for itself, but that is beside the point. Doing the right thing has its own rewards. Filing a Ripoff Report is also the right thing to do, and has its rewards.

What counts for the most in the end is how we have treated other people, and leaving the world a better place than we found it.  You appear to be doing neither, based on what you have written in this forum.  

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#15 UPDATE Employee

Pretty Funny

AUTHOR: HypnoToad - (United States of America)

POSTED: Monday, December 05, 2011

Hilarious, actually. This dude has written a book that nobody cares about and now he's pretending he's got scandalous information and he's exploiting this website to sell his book. Look how silly this is:

From all the complaining he's written, it's clear that he's recycled the same old garbage these guys have been selling for years. Yes, I'm a member of the LDS church. I read all the anti-Mormon books I could get my hands on years ago (all very subjective, never found one I was impressed with) and nobody's ever got anything new. You might as well find an old "Godmakers" for $1 at a used bookstore, 'cuz I guarantee you this guy has nothing new. (NOW who's the ripoff artist?!) I got to the point where I would laughingly read these books and them recommend them to people in and out of my church because they're so insipid. I'm going to go waaaaay out on a limb here and tell you about this book that I have never read (because they're all the same). It starts out expressing great love for the Mormon people and that it was only written to help them. It says the real culprits are the secretive/conspiratorial octogenarians in Salt Lake who manipulate people (yet it will never explain why these old guys get their kicks doing so.) Of course, it will expose a bunch of "facts" about Joseph Smith that come from the same sort of hitpieces written generations ago. It will end up implying those Mormons (they they love so much!) are deluded, angry, weak-minded, dishonest people that you should avoid, because they'll SUCK YOU IN WITH THEIR POWERFUL BOOK OF MORMON! Yawn. Hey, let's take it up a notch and address some specific issues.

The church doesn't disclose its holdings? Scandalous! I don't know if this is specifically true or not. Don't care. That Time mag had an extensive article about it a few years ago, which is where the author got his info...and you could too. Why would you buy his book when the info is all out there free?

Does investing in stuff make you controversial? How many other churches have value in facilities they're not telling about? Hey, how much is the Vatican worth? The church has lots of value in holdings all over the world, and uses them for worship, information, genealogy, and enormous amounts of charitable giving to members and non-members alike. But when you start throwing around terms like "secret" (a la trashy gossip mags) then you sell books, right? I'm surprised you didn't get the word "shocking" in there somewhere; that sells too.

Tithing: (Extra funny charge alert!) The author apparently does not know that the word "tithe" literally means "tenth" and lots of churches have the same policy. (Scandalous!) You'll lose privileges for not paying tithing? WHOA! You'll also lose privileges for breaking the Ten Commandments. Tell me what church doesn't have similar policies. You'll also lose privileges for smoking dope in front of your kids. I don't see him getting all upset about that.

Sordid Origins: Yawn. When you convert to Jehovah's Witness..uh...ism, do they tell you about Millerites? Who started the Anabaptist movement? They don't tell you? Scandalous! Don't you know about all the early schisms in the Amish faith?! OH NO! Has there ever been a controversial event without another side of the story? "Hey, Brother New Convert, before you get baptized we just thought you ought to know that a bunch of soreheads from decades ago said a bunch of unpleasant things about Joseph Smith..." Yeah, OK.

Politics: Huge yawn. The church generally stays out of politics, but thought it imperative to get involved in Prop 8. Lots of Baptist and Pentecostal churches did the same thing. Why aren't you crying about them? And while we're at it, why aren't you crying about the tax-exempt status of Barack Obama's good Reverend Wright, whose fire-breathing politics are a main staple of his sermons? Why aren't you upset about Protestant churches all over the south who integrate politics and religion so much that nobody even thinks about it anymore? Why aren't you upset about churches that protest abortion clinics? That's a pretty politically charged topic, innit?

What these things always boil down to -- and have ever since there ever was a church anywhere -- is one of two things. a) Guy joins church, can't uphold church standards, gets kicked out, rebels against church...not exactly like Cain and Abel, but you get the idea. Or b) Guy doesn't like church's position on something and tries to tear down church, claiming to have secret information that illegitimizes church. Ya know, Peter, James and John dealt with these things too.

If you think this book might be interesting, go buy books by Ed Decker, Jim Spencer, Sandra Tanner, and countless other nobodies regurgitating each other's stuff. They all need a buck too.

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#14 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Problem with Mormonism

AUTHOR: LDS Truthseeker - (United States of America)

POSTED: Monday, December 05, 2011

The big problem with Mormonism is that it selectively presents its history and doctrine in such a way to to make it seem more believable than it is.  If the church taught the true story of how it was founded and the enormous amount of information that discredits it (such as anachronisms in the Book of Mormon) then far fewer people would ever consider joining the Mormon church.   This lack of disclosure before you join and start paying your membership dues (tithing) is unforgivable.

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#13 Author of original report

How I was affected personally - To Stacey

AUTHOR: Lyndon Lamborn - (United States of America)

POSTED: Sunday, December 04, 2011

Good point Stacey, I did not describe my own experience, or how many $1000's I gave in good faith.  I am embarrassed to say I was bamboozled by the Mormon church until age 45, and gave in excess of $50 K, naively thinking I was doing the right thing.  I was shocked to find out the truth about the origins of the church.  Despite graduating from 4 years of seminary instruction, serving a full-time mission for 2 years, and serving in dozens of capacities ranging from scoutmaster to Branch President, I was never introduced to any of the 'warts' in church history or the incongruities in doctrinal claims.  I suppose it is not criminal behavior, but certainly unethical.  I have a first-hand appreciation for the song "The Man's Too Strong" by Dire Straits. 

And speaking of poems, here is one I wrote:

We have legalized robbery and called it faith, but that is not all;

We have exalted gullibility and called it faith.

We have censored the voice of reason, embraced delusions, and called it faith.

We have granted power to demons, feared the imaginary, and called it faith.

We have sanctioned discrimination and called it faith.

We have numbed our intellect with conformity and called it faith.

We have justified suppression of information and perpetuated lies and called it faith.

We have condoned inhumanity and called it faith.

Our elderly have abandoned life in preference for death and we called it faith.

We have surrendered our free will and called it faith.

We have declared ourselves the Chosen Ones, spat on our neighbor, and called it faith.

We have apologized for reality and called it faith.

We have traded sanity for security and called it faith.

We have abused our children with guilt and shame and unbridled fear and called it faith.

We have demeaned our women, esteemed them as property, and called it faith.

We have laid waste to families and called it faith.

I sit on the sand and feel the rhythm of the waves.

I lay down my burden and watch it dissolve with the tide.

The water and the sand and the sky become one.

I will study faith no more.

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#12 Consumer Comment

This "Church" is a Cult 100%

AUTHOR: This Is The Truth - (USA)

POSTED: Thursday, December 01, 2011
This so-called "church" is a cult.  It is erroneous in its teachings and it is practices that are contrary to mainline beliefs and mainline teachings found in the Bible

ITS A CULT 100%

Check out a book on cults and you will find them listed in there

Again I say they are a:

CULT
Respond to this report!
What's this?

#11 Author of original report

The Four Points

AUTHOR: Lyndon Lamborn - (United States of America)

POSTED: Saturday, November 26, 2011

So, I have to disagree, but am open to examples if you can cite them.  Can you point out other religions which do all four of the objectionable things I mentioned?  I don't know of any which do not disclose their financials or withhold privileges for those who do not pay a full 10%...  I could be wrong, if so, please set me straight.  Many religions withhold information, and some meddle in politics, I will grant you those two points right off the bat. 

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#10 Author of original report

Thanks Karl.

AUTHOR: Lyndon Lamborn - (United States of America)

POSTED: Saturday, November 26, 2011

I agree wholeheartedly.  I have a very nice "END THE FED" shirt I wear quite often, and have been to a protest of the Federal Reserve.  Thanks for mentioning this other colossal ripoff!

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#9 General Comment

Get your facts straight

AUTHOR: DeeLana Searle - (United States of America)

POSTED: Saturday, November 26, 2011

First, I would like to say that on your 4 reasons that make the church a rip off: All of the facts that you have used are misinterpretations of what the church is really all about.  You have taken the facts that you have learned and twisted them to make them fit the message you are trying to relay.

On your #4 reason you claim that they meddle in Politics. This is true of the members as we have the rights of any American! But of the Church as an establishment there is not. Members may participate in any political standing, whether by just voting or getting more involved. The organization as you call it, is not directly involved. We as members are not told who to vote for; only that we should follow our own instincts and vote for the people that best fit our needs as individuals not as a religion. Those in the north and south are not told to only vote for a particular party, but to vote for someone who has the qualities that we desire
our government to have. If this comment is because we have members becoming
government officials and some who are even vying for the job as President, it
is the individuals choice, not the Organizations choice.

Second, I would like to address the issue of tithing. It isnt mandatory! It is a personal choice. Tithing is a very private matter that is mostly between the individual and the Lord. Our Members are not required to pay tithing, only encouraged to pay the tithe that the Lord has asked for everyone. It is in every Bible that I have ever seen no matter what version it is. If fear is used, then shame on the person who is doing so. The church itself does not use fear as a tool to make members pay. In the lessons that you describe you fail to mention that we repeat all of the Lords lessons to remind ourselves of what the Lord wants of his people.

Every topic from the faith of  mustard seed, to tithing, to living to the best of our ability, is discussed and re-discussed to keep the members as knowledgeable about the Lords gospel. It is true that the Lord doesnt need our money, but he wants to see if we are faithful and obedient enough to follow the commandments. Then the church uses this money to further the Lords teachings. Tithing and other offerings are used to do many good things within and without the church. You are correct that
the church uses the money to build churches, temples, and to maintain those
buildings. But there is more. It provides money for each ward, stake and branch
to function. It helps the missionary program because it costs a lot of money to
send our young men to places and feed them and get them to those places. It
provides money to educate the youth. It provides the means to print the
materials needed to inform people and teach the Lords gospel. It also helps
pay for the work that we believe needs to be done in family history and temple
work. It helps provide food, clothing and other materials to those who are in
need. They donate so much money, food, and time to feed and clothe the poor. All
of which are to better the people of the world, the Lord is Lord of all, not
just the members of the Church of Latter Day Saints.

You are correct when you make the claim that without paying our tithing we are not allowed to participate in the Temple. But there is one thing you are missing. I am a full tithe payer and I personally do not pay a cent to the ward. I am not making any money and so I personally have no income. As such I am a full tithe payer. Until recently my husband had the same view you did on tithing. That it is just a way for the church to swindle us out of our money. Until the church helped us by paying our bills when we were down on our luck; there were no expectations for us to pay it back or any obligations that we had to do in order to receive the help. He has seen firsthand what the church truly is about when it comes to tithing. So there is no mind control, guilt trips, or schemes to get money. Our leaders are not sitting high on the hog because of this wealth. They are not treated like Kings while the rest of us break our backs to pay for them to do their callings. Every member is asked to
do 100% to fulfill their callings no matter what the calling is.

I am saddened to see that you have taken facts that are known and as I said before, twisted them to make sense for the purpose of this message. Your facts are incomplete and skewed. For starters had the trial of Joseph Smith been 6 years he would have been 20, beings that he was 14 at the time of the first vision. If you study the life of Joseph Smith in its entirety, you would find that he was a simple man who lived simply. If he had been doing this as a business venture then he sure didnt live the high life. He was beaten, tarred and feathered, starved, and many times was imprisoned wrongly. I would like to know where it is that you get your information as to all of this.  You have so many facts that if you truly knew the gospel then you wouldnt have your facts the way that they are in your long bashing of the church. Like your fact #4. The American history that it depicts does not have to be North America.  As to the trial of Joseph Smith in 1826, I think you need to get all the facts before you like others, claim that this is unaltered material that accuses Joseph Smith of any misdeeds. I would like to state that this document whether true or not has one flaw, in 1826 Joseph had seen the plates of gold, but had not been allowed to remove them from where he had found them. He was not able to do so until 1827! And further more was not able to be a glass looker as he had no access to the plates and the tools used to translate it until after this alleged trial! 

As I read your message of the Churchs history and how it is a scam, I wish that you would dig deeper into the gospel itself. Base not your opinions on whether Joseph was credible or not, for most of what you read is here-say any way, but base it off of your own personal feelings. Read the scriptures and pray earnestly to know if it is true or not true. Find out for yourself; do not let anything that you have read or heard sway you. If you have the same opinion when you are finished with the entire book and have prayed for an answer of the Lord, then good for you, but dont bash those who have the opinion that it is true.

My prayer is that you and those who have this opinion of the church would first seek the answers of the Lord. I have no right to bash the things that you believe in no matter what religion you are; and you have no right to bash anyone as well. We are on this earth to find for ourselves what we believe and to follow the counsels of the Lord. I do not go around condemning any other church for what their members do and neither should you.

Are the Catholics scammers and liars, or the Baptists and so on, No, but many
of their members lie, cheat and steal. But that does not mean that the religion
can be categorized and generalized as thieves and liars. People no matter what
religion are human and everyone of us have faults. Each of us no matter the
belief are capable of terrible things.

I am sorry that you do not approve of the members of the Latter Day Saints to stay involved in their surroundings. We like all human beings want our beliefs to be respected and upheld. Just as the Gays want to be allowed to be married, the LDS and many other religions have the desire to keep the Lords commandments that a man must marry a woman. We as Saints have the right to want to uphold our beliefs and have a say in our communities, governments and in the world.  The gospel of the Lord makes the statement of marriage and we stand behind what we believe.

To make demands as to what the church must do in order for you to think they are not a scam is preposterous. That would be like telling you that you are to expose everything that you have in your life. You must tell the world how much money you have, make and what you do with it all! As I said before, tithing is voluntary so that action is already taken care of. Members are encouraged to learn of all the history and teachings that are in the church, if they chose to not learn it that is their business. And meddling in politics is the right of every individual. Do you vote? Then you are a meddler too. Or like them are you just one that wants your voice heard? Think about what you have written and look in the mirror. Is your life so perfect and without blemish that you can cast stones? 

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#8 Consumer Comment

all are 'false'

AUTHOR: Ramjet - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Monday, November 21, 2011

All 'religions' are false and are nothing but belief in mythology.  Then for your proof, you quote from some old book of unknown origin and speak or write in some silly 14th century English accent.

It's all ridiculous and mormons are no better or worse than any other religion.

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#7 Consumer Comment

To each their own

AUTHOR: voiceofreason - (United States of America)

POSTED: Monday, November 21, 2011

I've never understood how so many millions of people could believe in earnest such a thing as Joseph Smith's revelations. However, the vast majority of mainstream Mormons, and even, I believe, the majority of the underground polygamist fundamentalist Mormons, are decent people and loyal Americans, and outside of the LDS gobbledegook, as much believers in Jesus as any Christian.

And I've always admired the kind of kick-a*s image of Brigham Young. Maybe because of the university's football team. Maybe because it contrasted with the weaker victim image I have of Smith.

And if other faiths or denominations lose menbers to movements like LDS, its because they're too complacent and lax in their own evangelism, or wishy washy and weak about their own doctrines and truths, leaving their less involved members open to the bold, unapologetic ministrations of LDS missionaries. Survival of the fittest applies to religion too.

And the country will hardly do worse with a Mormon running it than we've done with the myriad other Protestants we've had as President lately.

So, as far as their corporate financial structure goes, it's a big WHO CARES to me.

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#6 Consumer Comment

Mormans

AUTHOR: Joseph Brown - (USA)

POSTED: Monday, November 21, 2011

Wonder where I put my tin foil hat? Bet the OP is a Baptist. They seem to believe that anybody who doesn't believe as they do, will go straight to... Where's your rip off?

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#5 Consumer Suggestion

Don't believe in false religions like the Mormons...

AUTHOR: 707clique - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Monday, November 21, 2011

Don't trust a religion to get you to Heaven, first and foremost. Trust Jesus Christ alone....

1. Romans 3:23 Says "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God"

In the eyes of God, we are ALL bad people. As a matter of fact, according to God's standards, when it comes to entering Heaven, we are all just as bad as Adolf Hitler, or Osama Bin Laden, or anyone else you can think of. Not only that there is a punishment for this sin.

2. Romans 6:23 begins by saying "For the wages of sin is death..." 

When we sin (do bad things) we are destined for a place called Hell...now, I know that seems like a very judgmental and very insane thing to bring up, but it's the truth. But check this out, God loves us, right? So let me bring you to the second part of this verse, which states...

"...but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." 

Let me further explain this by saying that Romans 5:8-9 says:

"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."

We have the perfect opportunity to go to Heaven instead of Hell, because Christ took our punishment upon himself as a substitute for what we deserve to go through.

But then again, not everyone in the world is going to Heaven. So what must we do? Simple...

3. Acts 16:31 says, "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."

"Believing on" something means trusting something. So in order to be saved, we must Accept the GIFT of eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. It's like this, Christ gained eternal life, and he wrapped it up in a package, and is handing it to you. And you have your whole life to reach out and receive it. 

Might I add, once you receive it, you can't lose it, ever. You have no chance of going to Hell after receiving it. (1 John 5:13)

And, you also can't earn your way to heaven by doing good works (Ephesians 2: 8-9). It is the GIFT OF GOD.

If you TRULY BELIEVE these statements in your heart, go ahead and tell God. You could pray something like this... Dear Jesus, I admit I am a sinner and I deserve to go to Hell. However, I believe you died and rose again to pay my sin debt. Please save me and take me to heaven when I die. I'm only trusting you, Jesus. Amen.



Respond to this report!
What's this?

#4 Consumer Comment

Old hat

AUTHOR: Ramjet - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Sunday, November 20, 2011

This church is actually no worse or better than any other church. 

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#3 Consumer Comment

Lyndon, Have you noticed the.......

AUTHOR: Karl - (USA)

POSTED: Sunday, November 20, 2011

commercials that have been airing recently on T.V., and at the end of these commercials the people being portrayed will say that they are a Mormon?

It's interesting that these commercials are taking place about a year before the 2012 Presidential election, wouldn't you agree? Many of us know that the unemployed millionaire, Mitt Romney, is attempting to become the Republican candidate, right? I believe that he's a Mormon, isn't he?

You can 'Google' this- "I'M ALSO UNEMPLOYED", and read the related articles on the web regarding his quote.

It appears that the Mormons might be attempting to show that the ones depicted in those T.V. commercials are happy and successful. Maybe it's a way to recruit others, who are lost and might be searching for answers in these troubling times, right? It could also be a way to manipulate the minds of potential voters, correct? Let's face it, the American people are easy to manipulate, right? If it appears on T.V., most Americans will believe it, wouldn't you agree?

In my opinion, all religions manipulate their 'followers'. Religion has become BIG business in America and all over the world. You mentioned that the LDS Church does not disclose their financial holdings. That brings to mind how the Catholic Church doesn't want to disclose all of the sex abuse that has been taking place in the USA and all over the world. I wonder if the Catholic Church discloses its financial holdings. Probably not, huh? 

Don't forget to 'Google' this- WHO OWNS THE FED?, and go to the site with the 5 charts and pay attention to the fact that Twentieth Century Fox Corporation is listed in 'Chart 4' and General Electric (NBC) is listed in 'Chart 5'.

The ones who control T.V. are the ones who control the minds of most Americans, right? It appears that the ones who control T.V. also control Wall Street and the U.S. government. Simply take a look at all of the companies that appear in those 5 charts. Most of them are Wall Street companies, correct?

Here's another quote that you can 'Google'- "I'M DOING GOD'S WORK"

Have a nice day.

***NATIONWIDE BANK ALERT: Make sure to type in all of the following at this site and read the Ripoff Reports for important information if you have a bank account or a mortgage in the USA-

BANK OF AMERICA
MERRILL LYNCH
WELLS FARGO
COUNTRYWIDE
CHASE
GMAC
US BANK
LITTON LOAN
CITIBANK
MORGAN STANLEY
WACHOVIA
INDYMAC
ONE WEST BANK
GOLDMAN SACHS
FIFTH THIRD
LEHMAN
PHH MORTGAGE
BANK
MORTGAGE

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#2 Consumer Comment

Oh, really ?

AUTHOR: Lorenzen - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, November 19, 2011

And now RipOff Reports has become a forum for a political agenda.  Good grief, Charlie Brown. Naturally, all of the author's report is public information, and can be found almost anywhere on the web and in libraries.  Though, personally, I have nothing to do with the LDS, and though everything mentioned here is true, I feel it would it's purpose would be better served on another forum.  Just my opinion. 

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#1 Consumer Comment

SO

AUTHOR: Stacey - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, November 19, 2011

What is the rip off that pertains to YOU?

Respond to this report!
What's this?
Featured Reports

Advertisers above have met our
strict standards for business conduct.

X
What do hackers,
questionable attorneys and
fake court orders have in common?
...Dishonest Reputation Management Investigates Reputation Repair
Free speech rights compromised

WATCH News
Segment Now