Vision Investing Group LLC, Short Sale Magic Tom Butler, Shane Rawlings, Tammy Castro. They'll do anything to keep your money. Scammers, Hustlers, Hounds, Theives. American Fork Utah

I am an honest, hard working individual. I am in the US Army and I was taken advantage of by this company. I guess I wasn't detailed enough in my original report. Your stated something that I feel needs to be clarified:
"They provided value ( training) for the money even if it did not work for you or anyone else. Even if it didn't work for ANYBODY, it was YOUR CHOICE to take the class. I don't think anyone held a pistol to your head and FORCED you to sign the line..."
They did not provide value (training) of any sorts. They did practically steal my money and run. They are not an accredited institution. They made false (verbal)promises on the phone which kept me excited about their scam. I'm a victim of psychological tactics and lies. I was not aware of the 'real' situation till past the 3 day period. I did make the mistake of giving them my money. I truly regret it and I wish something would be done to make this right... justice, not beurocracy. They are frauds that take advantage of the system and hide under the 'education' umbrella. I want them to get busted and reveal how wrong they are. I'll do you one better and post my BBB complaint below:

"Consumer's Original Complaint :
The company charged my American Express card in the amount of $12550 on AUG 31, 2007 for coaching course and 4realtools. The contract date was Aug 28, 2007. I asked the company to change the contract date to the date I start the course so that I can make the decision to cancel. I was told that that was not a problem by one of their representatives. The company gave me three days to cancel. I called to cancel the same day my credit card was charged (AUG 31, 2007), I was told by Tammie Castro that it was too late for me to cancel (past the three day limit). I did not recieve any services or any communication within a week of signing the contract. I've been trying to get my money since then and I was given the run-around and I'm sick of it. The company made false promises verbally and all I got was more debt. I'm not asking for a full refund, I'll pay for the Audio series and the Notebook I received from them, but I will not pay for sevices I did not recieve. Also, the company's employees that I've dealt with are rude, unprofessional and practice unethical methods. If this problem does not get resolved by the BBB, then I will have to pursue the company through the Attorney General for a full refund and for financial damages imposed on me and my family from these corrupt con artists. Please Help. Thank you.

Consumer's Desired Resolution:
I am seeking a refund for services that were never rendered from this compay that insists on keeping my money even after I tried multiple times to get my money back. Here is a quote from www.ripoffreport.com that better descibes this company:"A former employee of Vision Investing Group (located in American Fork, UT) who had tried to sell me the Short Sale Magic program while he was working for that fraudulent company contacted me recently. He told me that I had made a wise decision in refusing to purchase the program, due to the fact that he had learned it is worthless as are all of their other programs. He informed me that Vision Investing Group's previous credit card transaction processor had stopped processing credit card transactions for them and because credit card transaction processors have access to the merchant's bank account, the processor had seized hundreds of thousands of dollars form Vision Investing Group's bank account in order to pay back the credit card holders who had been defrauded by Vision Investing Group and were doing chargebacks, and that the processor had finally closed Vision Investing Group's merchant account. Additionally, he stated that this same credit card transaction processing company had placed Vision Investing Group on MATCH/TMF due the large number of chargebacks that had come in, which were initiated by individuals who had paid for Vision Investing Group's worthless programs with their MASTERCARD or VISA credit cards. I learned that MATCH/TMF is basically a highly secure online bulletin board that has been made available to credit card transaction processors and other financial institutions in order for the industry to guard against companies or individuals who commit fraud, by placing and viewing on this bulletin board entities that have engaged or are engaging in financial fraud of one form or another. This former employee of Vision Investing Group also stated that Vision Investing Group's current credit card transaction processor is processing credit card transactions for this fraudulent company with the full knowledge that Vision Investing Group has been placed on MATCH/TMF due to fraud, emphasizing that individuals whose credit cards have been charged by Vision Investing Group and processed by their current processor now may have the right to take legal action against this credit card transaction processor and should definitely report this situation to MASTERCARD INTERNATIONAL and VISA USA and in fact they should file complaints with MASTERCARD and VISA against this processor due to the actions it has taken. Certain other information that this former employee gave me is that due to the lax laws with respect to deception via misrepresentation, bate & switch and other forms of fraud in the state of Utah, in addition to Vision Investing Group, several other companies involved in "Get Rich in Real Estate" schemes/scams have based themselves in the state of Utah. Since apparently the state of Utah Attorney General does not care about fraud in that state, it is probably prudent of people who have been scammed by Vision Investing Group or by other fraudulent companies to contact the U.S. Department of Justice and file their complaints with the U.S. Attorney General. For everyone and anyone out there whom Vision Investing Group has defrauded, I hope the information I have provided will be helpful to you in filing your class action lawsuit against this fraudulent company. Don't give in to these charlatans and GOOD LUCK. Finally, KUDOS to ripoffreport.com for facilitating the dissemination of information."

BBB Processing

09/23/2008 Jody EMAIL Notify business of password
09/23/2008 Jody EMAIL Notify consumer of case # and password
07/02/2008 web BBB Complaint Received by BBB
07/02/2008 AH BBB Complaint Reviewed by BBB Operator
07/02/2008 Otto EMAIL Send acknowledgement to Consumer
07/02/2008 Otto EMAIL Inform Business of the Complaint
07/09/2008 BBB MORE INFO RECEIVED FROM THE CONSUMER : I contacted this company because they claim to have a low risk way of doing real-estate. The salesperson I spoke to kept me pumped up about how easy it will be to make money using their system. When I mentioned that I didn't have much money, the salesperson convinced me to charge it on my credit card and that I would earn twice that amount in less than a month to pay the balance off. I was charged $12,550.00 on Aug. 31, 2007 for Mentoring course 'tuition' and 4realtools. I was not contacted within their 3 day grace period, therefore I had no idea what this program was all about, or if this program was for me. I contacted them in attempt to get what I paid for and all they did was have a 'coach' call me and set up a time to conduct a one hour per week session which didn't start until a week later. I've only been through about 5 sessions and I was never contacted again. I never used 4realtools. I've tried multiple times to get a refund from this company. I even called my credit card company to report their transaction as fraudulent, but they could not refund my account and I was told to take it up with the company that scammed me. It's been almost a year now and the last time I tried to get any kind of refund I was told that my request was under executive review and I should receive a response within a few days. The response was: 'Your request has been reviewed. Once again, your demand for a refund has been denied.' I've made no money whatsoever from this company's program.
07/09/2008 BBB MORE INFO RECEIVED FROM THE CONSUMER : The $12,550.00 charge by Vision Investing Group on my credit card account has accumulated a lot of interest since 31 Aug. 2007 and I can barely even afford the minimum payments now. The company's customer service representatives are rude and nasty toward me. I left multiple messages and no reply. I am full of regret; I should have never contacted this company. I wish I never got involved with Vision Investing Group, LLC. I have been wronged in so many ways by this company. I was told by my lawyer to contact the Attorney General of Utah. I'm not familiar with what to do next or how as I've never been in this situation before. Please help me with this case and thank you so much for your time.
Sincerely,
Omar R. Huggi
07/11/2008 WEB BBB RECEIVE BUSINESS RESPONSE : Contact Name and Title: Bill Lauman
Contact Phone: 801-763-9928
Contact Email: admin@visioninvestinggroup.com
Vision Investing Group
313 South 740 East, Suite 3
American Fork, UT 84003
July 11, 2008

Better Business Bureau of Utah
5673 South Redwood Road #22
Salt Lake City, UT 84123
Fax (801) 892-6002
RE: Case # 22058500
Omar Huggi
2410 Aiken Drive
Richmond, VA 23294

To Whom It May Concern,
I am writing in response to Case #22058500. Mr. Huggi enrolled in our Executive Mentoring Program on August 28, 2007. The program purchased included twelve (12) coaching sessions on Real Estate Short Sales via the internet and phone and 90-days access to 4RealEstateLeads.com. The customer was shipped materials for his class via UPS; tracking number: 1Z 018 3F0 29 4574 725 2. These materials were delivered to the customer on August 31, 2007.
Prior to the Mr. Huggi finalizing his enrollment into our program he was provided a copy of our Executive Mentoring Agreement. This agreement provides our customers with a description of their purchase, our cancellation policy and the terms of their ''Warranty of Service''. Mr. Huggi reviewed, signed, and faxed this agreement back to our office on August 28, 2007. Under this agreement beyond the initial 3-day right to rescind all sales are final unless he follows the terms of the warranty, makes the necessary offers and has not recouped his original tuition.
Vision Investing Group provides an educational service to help our customers exert their abilities to the fullest extent. It the customers' responsibility to take the education we provide (along with their intellect, skill and effort) and use it attain success in the market.
According to the contract, Mr. Huggi must submit at least twelve (12) valid short sale offers to a bank/lender within six (6) months of his enrollment prior to receiving re-instruction or a refund. These short sale offers do NOT have to be accepted by a bank/lender, just submitted. Mr. Huggi has not engaged in the required amount of transactions. Therefore, he is not in compliance with the terms of the warranty which means his is NOT entitled to any type of refund.
Please see the attached documents which include a copy of the signed Mentoring Agreement and Delivery Confirmation from UPS.
Feel free to contact our office with any questions.

Best regards,

Bill Lauman

07/11/2008 AH EMAIL Forward Business response to Consumer
07/14/2008 WEB BBB RECEIVED CONSUMER REBUTTAL : (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
First of all, I have done my due diligence and despite all my efforts I could not find it possible to do that kind of business here in Virginia. This is because I could not get any leads from the local courthouse, advertising, phone calling, door-to-door, word-of-mouth, heck...I even called multiple banks to see if I could get any leads from their REO and loss mitigation departments and I got nothing. Secondly, the law only gives three weeks (21 days) from the notice of default till the foreclosure sale date here in Virginia. This makes it impossible to do even with an extension from the bank. I do not have money to invest in any property (except my own 30-year-financed mortgage) so even if, by some miracle, I pull it off I wouldn't be able to sell the property that I do not own or have the right to. I didn't even have the money to shell out for this company's program, but their sales personnel convinced me to put the charge on my credit card (American Express). Now I have this dept that keeps accumulating interest monthly and I could barely afford the payments. Thirdly, I was charged for "4realtools" that I didn't even use because there was a monthly fee for their services (I gave money I don't have to this company, what makes you think I would have the money to pay them monthly in addition to what I've paid to them? (about $6000.00)). Also, my "mentor/coach" Brent Freeman told me that it was pointless to use that service (4realtools) if I was going to handle the screening and phone calls myself using my phone number. He also told me that if I apply my due diligence and do what he says, then there's no way I could fail this program and if I did not recoup the money I paid, the I'll be the first ever to not succeed. I did eactly what he told me to and I ran into alot of situations that he did not have the answers too therefore I could not proceed. It's like he was reading off of a script that matches the notebook this company sent me. Afterwards I was assigned to Doug Hatch and he was less helpful than Brent Freeman. I've only completed about 5 sessions before I realised that this was a dead end scam and that "Vision Investing Group provides an educational service to help our customers exert their abilities to the fullest extent" by taking $12550.00 from them and treating their customers like crap once they pass their 3 day return period and not providing them with any real service. God has a special place in hell for people like that. This program was not designed to work in Virginia. I've only been through about 5 sessions with a mentor/coach and I have not been contacted since. I will pay for the material (a binder book and audio series of 5 CDs) and the 5 or 6 sessions of "instruction." I will settle for a MIDDLE GROUND of a $6500.00 refund (for 4realtools) and to receive the remainder of my sessions with a "mentor/coach." I believe this company must make an exception for me and my situation and issue a refund to my credit card. Did I mention that this has placed a hardship on my family? Is this what you do to people that cannot succeed using your company's techniques? If you have any questions or need any more information regarding my case, please do not hesitate to call me or email me. I was wronged by Vision Investing Group, LLC in so many ways and I wish somebody would fix this.
07/15/2008 AH EMAIL Forward Consumer Rebuttal to Business
07/29/2008 WEB BBB RECEIVED RESPONSE FROM BUSINESS RE: REBUTTAL : Vision Investing Group
313 South 740 East, Suite 3
American Fork, UT 84003
July 24, 2008

Better Business Bureau of Utah
5673 South Redwood Road #22
Salt Lake City, UT 84123
Fax (801) 892-6002
RE: Case # 22058500
Omar Huggi
2410 Aiken Drive
Richmond, VA 23294

To Whom It May Concern,
As stated in my previous response, Vision Investing Group provides an educational service to help our customers exert their abilities to the fullest extent. It the customer's responsibility to take the education we provide (along with their intellect, skill and effort) and use it attain success in the market.
Mr. Huggi completed four (4) sessions with his original coach, Mr. Edmonds. Our office received an email from his coach informing us that there seemed to be a personality conflict between this student and himself. He stated that Mr. Huggi appeared to have contention toward him during their conversations and that he had missed several scheduled appointments.
Mr. Edmonds believed that Mr. Huggi would be better served with a different coach.
Mr. Huggi was assigned to Mr. Hatch on 11/7/2007. He completed two (2) sessions with his new coach before requesting to postpone his sessions until December 15, 2007. As requested, Mr. Hatch contacted Mr. Huggi around the 15th of December. Mr. Huggi asked to postpone his sessions again until March or April of 2008. Mr. Huggi was asked to contact his coach when he was ready to recommence his sessions. Mr. Hatch has not heard from Mr. Huggi since. Mr. Hatch has been and is currently available to complete the remaining sessions at Mr. Huggi's convenience.
Mr. Huggi states in his last response that he never used the 4realtools program because there was a monthly fee. This statement is not entirely accurate. There is a monthly fee AFTER the initial 90-days. Mr. Huggi was well informed of any and all fees pertaining to his purchase.
Feel free to contact our office with any questions.
Best regards,
Bill Lauman
08/04/2008 OttO EMAIL Forward Business Response to Consumer re: Rebuttal
08/04/2008 WEB BBB CONSUMER REJECTS BUSINESS' RESPONSE : (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
I have completed 4 sessions with Mr. Ron Edmonds before I realized what was really going on. I realized that I have tremendously overpaid for information that can be attained at any local library or on the internet. I also realized that Mr. Ron Edmonds was reading off of a script and could not answer many of my questions pertaining to this so called "course." I missed about two classes because I had a feeling that if I continue with this program, then' I'll never be able to receive any kind of refund. The reassigned me to a different coach, Mr. Doug Hatch. He called me and informed me that he was my new coach. I only completed two sessions with him before I was sure that this program is a scam in my particular case. Every time I asked either coach about how to get a refund, they said I would have to ask customer service. Remember, we're not talking about a few buck here, we're talking about $12,500.00. Every time I contacted customer service, I got the same response, NO, not until I finish my sessions and submit 12 short-sale offers within 6 months. But I did not want to finish this bogus course because I was getting nowhere fast with either coach. When I actually found someone who was facing foreclosure, I went through the process that these coaches instructed me to do and I ran into several situations in Virginia that does not allow me to do a short-sale and neither coach could answer my questions. I was hung out to dry.
As far as the 4realtools, I'm glad to see that this company at least admits to me not using the service at all. But yet I am still charged about $6000.00 for it. Also I'm glad to see they admitted to there being a fee. Although there is a 90-day "free trial" (more like a $6000.00 free trial), there is still a monthly service fee. Now tell me, honestly, doesn't that sound like a scam to you? What an easy $6000.00 from a poor citizen of the United States who paid via credit card because he doesn't have that kind of money. Bill Lauman mentions that I "was well informed of any and all fees pertaining to this purchase." This statement is not entirely accurate. I do not know how much exactly 4realtools costs and I'm only assuming about $6000.00 because the "agreement" only states $12,550.00 for both parts of the program. Did I mention that I found this company in my SPAM email? I never read my spam email anymore because of nasty company's like Vision Investing Group that seem to fight dirty and do anything to keep the money they receive from innocent people like me. I believe I offered a fair MEDIUM in my last response of $6500.00 returned to my credit card and to finish up the remainder of the bogus sessions with Mr. Doug Hatch just because I'm pretty sure they will not refund me that portion of the program because I answered the phone and listened to a coach read from a script 6 times. Apparently they still insist on keeping my money. I am willing to take a $6000.00 loss but now I'm convinced that this entire program is a well structured scam.
08/04/2008 AH EMAIL Forward Consumer Rebuttal to Business (2)
08/06/2008 WEB BBB RECEIVED RESPONSE FROM BUSINESS RE: REBUTTAL : Vision Investing Group
313 South 740 East, Suite 3
American Fork, UT 84003
August 6, 2008

Better Business Bureau of Utah
5673 South Redwood Road #22
Salt Lake City, UT 84123
Fax (801) 892-6002
RE: Case # 22058500
Omar Huggi
2410 Aiken Drive
Richmond, VA 23294

To Whom It May Concern,
Mr. Huggi was FULLY informed of the terms and conditions of his contract PRIOR to enrolling in our program. He accuses our coaches of reading from a script. This is 100% inaccurate. Our coaches are highly experienced Short Sale investors. They utilize our program to obtain Short Sales in many different states.
Mr. Huggi's accusations and assertions are basely and wrong. This is nothing more than a ploy by Mr. Valdez to relieve his contractual duties. We will not be offering any type of refund until he is in full compliance of his guarantee.
Feel free to contact our office with any questions.
Best regards,
Bill Lauman
08/06/2008 AH BBB RECEIVED RESPONSE FROM BUSINESS RE: REBUTTAL : Vision Investing Group
313 South 740 East, Suite 3
American Fork, UT 84003
August 6, 2008

Better Business Bureau of Utah
5673 South Redwood Road #22
Salt Lake City, UT 84123
Fax (801) 892-6002
RE: Case # 22058500
Omar Huggi
2410 Aiken Drive
Richmond, VA 23294

To Whom It May Concern,
Mr. Huggi was FULLY informed of the terms and conditions of his contract PRIOR to enrolling in our program. He accuses our coaches of reading from a script. This is 100% inaccurate. Our coaches are highly experienced Short Sale investors. They utilize our program to obtain Short Sales in many different states.
Mr. Huggi's accusations and assertions are basely and wrong. This is nothing more than a ploy by Mr. Huggi to relieve his contractual duties. We will not be offering any type of refund until he is in full compliance of his guarantee.
Feel free to contact our office with any questions.
Best regards,
Bill Lauman
08/07/2008 AH EMAIL Forward Business Response to Consumer re: Rebuttal
08/09/2008 WEB BBB CONSUMER REJECTS BUSINESS' RESPONSE : (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
To whom it may concern,
Mr. Lauman is a liar and is doing everything in his deceptive power to convince you that they are right to trick me and make false verbal promises while louring me into their sales pitch and keeping the money that was charged on my credit card. Mr. Lauman is insulting and what his company is doing to people like me is wrong. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. He is hoping that I and people in my situation would give up and let him win his case, well guess what, this company did me wrong and I will not give up. I wouldn't feel this strongly about it if they were right. If anything, I hope nobody else gets screwed over by this company's deceptive, false and wrong doing . By the way, another reason they will not be offering any type of refund until I am in full compliance of their "guarantee" is because it's been almost a year that I've been fighting them and their "guarantee" is only good for the first 6 months. I have been fighting these deceptive con artist since September 2007. They hide behind the name "Vision Investing Group, LLC" and have smart typing employers such as Bill Lauman, whom I've never spoken to before. If I had money, I would sue them for the stress, time, interest, financial hardship, anxiety, and start a petition for a class action lawsuit against Vision Investing Group, LLC. I hope no one else has to go through this or even deals with this company. If one part of the company, the one I unfortunately got involved with, is this messed up, lord knows how the rest of the company is run. I've tried to contact your office Mr. Lauman, I really have, but I get the run around which seems to be the standard procedure anytime I call. Apparently Mr. Lauman accuses me of not having any skills and intellect to attain success in the market. I have exerted a lot of time and effort into trying to make this program work for me and I almost lost my full-time job. The job that is paying the credit card charge from this wrongful company. I believe I am justified in my accusations toward this basely company. I will not let them get away with it. I wish for the BBB to intervene and resolve this issue."

If they had a "a low risk way of doing real-estate" then why wouldn't they be out earning money instead of being in a fly-by-night office situation trying to lure in the suckers?

"The salesperson I spoke to kept me pumped up about how easy it will be to make money using their system. When I mentioned that I didn't have much money, the salesperson convinced me to charge it on my credit card and that I would earn twice that amount in less than a month to pay the balance off. I was charged $12,550.00 on Aug. 31, 2007 for Mentoring course "tuition" and 4realtools."

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS EASY MONEY! Unless you are the scam artist who is cheating people.

$12,550 WOULD HAVE PUT A LOT OF FOOD ON THE TABLE.

It is not the credit card company's fault that you bought into the scam.

This scam apparently passes for "education" and a " training course." It is marginally legitimate. You paid tuition for a training class and that is probably why the credit card people wouldn't refund your money.

They provided value ( training) for the money even if it did not work for you or anyone else. Even if it didn't work for ANYBODY, it was YOUR CHOICE to take the class. I don't think anyone held a pistol to your head and FORCED you to sign the line...

If they had just took your money and run with it, things would have been different.

If you had second thoughts about taking these classes, it was YOUR responsibiity to keep up with the three days and CANCEL. You KNOW they are going to look after their best interests and not tell you when to cancel. That way, they get to KEEP your money legally.

I think the money would have paid a lot for a junior college Associate's degree in real estate you could have parlayed into a real job instead of getting into this mess.

BE CAREFUL WHEN SOMEBODY PROMISES YOU EASY MONEY,EASY WAY OF DOING BUSINESS or you will be giving them EASY MONEY --easy for THEM and a hard lesson for YOU!