Ripoff Report Needs Your Help!
X  |  CLOSE
Report: #1029401

Complaint Review: Www.timesharemls.org Www.timesharefsbo.com Chlcorp.com Jon Warren Howard Levene - Orlando Florida

  • Submitted:
  • Updated:
  • Reported By: gray Tennessee
  • Author Confirmed What's this?
  • Why?
  • Www.timesharemls.org Www.timesharefsbo.com Chlcorp.com Jon Warren Howard Levene 7121 Grand National Dr. Ste. 106 Orlando, Florida U.S.A.

Show customers why they should trust your business over your competitors...

Is this
Report about YOU
listed on other sites?
Those sites steal
Ripoff Report's
content.
We can get those
removed for you!
Find out more here.
How to fix
Ripoff Report
If your business is
willing to make a
commitment to
customer satisfaction
Click here now..

Advance Fee Timeshare Resale Scam

They sell timeshares, don't they? Unfortunately NO they do not! Who am I talking about? The numerous companies that operate in the murky world of Timeshare Resales. You would think that by the very name of their industry "Timeshare Resales" that they would at least have some success selling timeshares. However, as many a timeshare owner has found these companies only excel at selling a worthless advertising package that costs between $500 to $1000 to timeshare owners who are desperate to sell their unit before the next yearly maintenance fee is due.

These "Resale" companies are staffed with well trained and well payed sales reps who know exactly which hot buttons to hit to motivate the timeshare owner to purchase their resale package. While many timeshare owners are quite happy with timeshares and enjoy them a great deal there are many owners, for various reasons, who are looking to sell. Usually these owners aren't not able to use their time anymore or are just tired of paying the yearly maintenance fees which can run from $500 or more a year. The "Resale" sales reps know this and prey on this desperation of the timeshare owner to sell. The Scam starts when the timeshare owner's phone rings.

How do these "Resale" sales reps make their sales? There are a few tried and true tactics that seem to work much too often. One way is the rep will tell the timeshare owner "we are having a showcase this weekend and we really need your resort in our inventory. We've sold out of (fill in any resort name here) so if we can get your listed now we should be able to sell it this weekend". After trying to close the owner at $999 for their resale package they will go to a drop close if they aren't having success. At this point they will either put you on hold to supposedly go talk to their "Inventory Manager" or they will get the sales rep next to them to come on the line as the "Inventory Manager". Either way the purpose is to give the drop close credibility. They will tell the timeshare owner "I've spoken to my Inventory Manager and we normally don't do this but since we are sure we can get your unit (points) sold this weekend we are willing to drop the price to $799 just for tonight so we can get your unit in the system". Their buddy next to them will say the same thing basically but thier job is to come across as the authority figure, the "Inventory Manager" in this case. Just keep in mind that their buddy is just as motivated to make the sell because if they do they will split the commission with the original sales rep.

Another tactic is to over inflate the value of the timeshare and guarantee the sale of the unit. They ask how much the owner paid for the unit, sing the praises of the unit and then tell the owner that they have sold several of these units and that they more than likely will recieve more than what they paid for it. A point to remember, unlike what the resort sales person said when the timeshare owner purchased their unit, timeshares are not good investments. The truth is that since timeshares are so loaded with built in commissions for the sales reps, sales managers and sales office that a timeshare will never be sold for any price near what they were purchased for to begin with. If a timeshare owner is one of the few lucky enough to sell their unit (about 5%-10% of timeshares are actually resold) they normally will sell it for about 10% of what they paid for it. Many timeshare owners will even sell them for $1 just so they can be rid of the yearly maintenance fees.

These "Resale" companies will also guarantee the unit will be sold in 90 days. When asked what happens if it doesn't sell in that time the sales rep will play up "if for some reason it doesn't sell in 90 days we will continue to advertise it at our expense, however, normally they do sell before the 90 days are up". So what does "at our expense" mean? Absolutely nothing! Once the "Resale" package has been sold to a timeshare owner the "Resale" company will place a small, fairly generic ad on their website, a website that generates very little traffic and are usually hard to navigate if anyone does happen across them. The "Resale" company has already taken the timehare owner for $500-$1000 but it doesn't cost them a thing to keep the timeshare owner's ad on their website indefinately. This is how they skirt the law. They may promise the timeshare owner the moon when making the sell but when it comes to their contract is limits their responsiblity and indicates that if the unit doesn't sell in 90 days their only responsibility is to continue to advertise it. So in essence, for $1000 a timeshare owner gets a small, tiny classified ad on a website that generates little traffic and is filled with over priced timeshare units due to the "Resale" sales reps telling a timeahre owner they can sell their unit for more than it's worth. A formula for success, I think not.

The examples above are just a few of the misleading tactics they will use. They do have a lot more tricks in their arsenal and they certainly are not above high pressure sales methods especially when dealing with elderly timeshare owners. They love to speak fast, loud and over load elderly timeshare owners with a lot of information. When it's time for the close they will badger the owner to try and get their credit card information. How do they do this? By asking htey elderly owner "Mr./Mrs. timeshare owner, you want to sell your unit, right? we can't sell it for you unless we get you listed! You wan't your (fill in the blank with an over inflated timeshare price) don't you?" Basically this will go on and on with the ultimate goal of getting the sale and the money.

What can a timeshare owner do who needs to sell? The first thing to remember the best person to sell their unit is themsleves. If they feel a little uneasy about handling the sale themselves there are lincensed real estate agents who specialize in timeshare resales and they do not charge advance fees. They make a commission after the sale so they are motivated to actually sell the ubit unlike the "Resale" companies. There are also websites designed as a meeting place for timeshare owners to sell or trade their units as well as providing tools and education relating to timeshares. Good starting places are www.redweek.com and www.tug2.net. Anyone looking to sell a timeshare can place an ad on these sites for around $10 to $15 in most cases, a far cry from the "Resale" companies. Also, these also generate a huge volume of people looking for timeshares due to their repuations in the industry.

How do I know so much about Advance Fee Timeshare Companies? For a very brief time last year I opened a marketing room for a fairly successful "Resale" company. Not the best business decesion I've ever made. The money is definately there to be made (the average "resale" sales rep makes $50,000 yr. and the very best make over $75,000 yr.) however, after operating the office for less than a week and hearing customer after customer complain about how they were burned by a Timeshare Resale Company (not once did I hear any owner tell us what a great experience they had with one of those companies) I was completely disgusted with the misleading sales tactics needed to be successful. I was pretty upset allowing myself to ever get involved with this industry. I closed my office and the only positive thing I can say about the whole experience is we never sent a sale.

Since then I have done my best to expose the Advance Fee Timeshare Resale Scam through every possible way I can find. This includes posting to every timeshare forum, blog and consumer website I can find. On these blogs and websites I mention the company by name that I was associated and as a result you can't search the web using their name without a ton of negative reports coming up on the search results. I think this method of speading the word on them and the industry is working. Now when this company contacts a timeshare owner and that owner wants to check the company out first and does a web search using their name they will see many posts and reports exposing this company for what they are---a SCAM!! This must be costing the company at least a little bit of money because they are starting to attack me personaly and threaten me with legal actions. I'm not too concerned about that later because I'm certain they don't want their business methods to see the light of day in a courtroom.

Just as importantly, I have been in contact with the proper authorities in Florida where they (and most timeshare resale companies) are located. I have shared my experiences and the evidence I have on their misleading and fraudulent sales tactics. Anyone that has been ripped off by one of these companies should definately contact the Attorney General's office of the state the business is located among other agencies and inform them of what has happend. With each complaint they get the closer these timeshare resale scams come to getting shut down.

The company I was associated with was timesharemls.org which is owned by CHL Marketing, Inc. that also operates timesharefsbo.com.
So remember, never, ever, pay any company money in advance to sell your timeshare. Any company, no matter what name they go by, that wants you do pay before it is sold is a SCAM!!

Gary
gray, Tennessee
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 07/23/2007 03:55 PM and is a permanent record located here: https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/wwwtimesharemlsorg-wwwtimesharefsbocom-chlcorpcom-jon-warren-howard-levene/orlando-florida-32819/wwwtimesharemlsorg-wwwtimesharefsbocom-chlcorpcom-jon-warren-howard-levene-timesharem-1029401. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year. Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report. READ: Foreign websites steal our content

Search for additional reports

If you would like to see more Rip-off Reports on this company/individual, search here:

Report & Rebuttal
Respond to this report!
What's this?
Also a victim?
What's this?
Repair Your Reputation!
What's this?

Updates & Rebuttals

REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
0Author
3Consumer
1Employee/Owner

#4 Author of original report

Steve handled "Legal's" sales rep brilliantly

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, July 25, 2007

Steve, you're definitely well prepared for when the Advance Fee Timeshare Resellers call.

It's also great you posted the questions to ask Timeshare Resellers too. As you found out, they most certainly will not be able to answer these questions to anyone's satisfaction. Plus the questions are a great tool for others to know to fight these resale scammers.

These resale sales reps think they're smooth and they usually are when they are controlling the call but the questions you posted will help educate others and enable them to take control of the call and as "Legal" from timesharemls.org is fond of writing it will also "Discredit" their own sales people.

Like you said Steve, if the FTC thinks it's important then it more than likely is.

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#3 Author of original report

Addressing the "Discredit" of me by timesharemls' "Legal Dept"

AUTHOR: Gary - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, July 25, 2007

To address the "Discredit" of me from the owner and General Manager of Timesharemls.org I submit the following:

I freely admit I was a sales manager for Vacation Break USA and APEX Marketing which were both eventually purchased by Fairfield Resorts which is now owned by Wyndham.

We did sell vacation packages to generate tours to timeshares. I have never had a problem per se with timeshares since there are very good ones out there and many timeshare owners are happy with their units. My problem is with the upfront fee resale companies of the world.

At Vacation Break we sold packages mostly in the $399 range but if a customer wanted a carnival cruise it would be $899.

At APEX and Fairfield we sold the 3 day 2 night get aways for a price of around $99 to $129.

These packages were for the purpose of generating tours for mostly Fairfield Resorts.

As for Caribe Marketing I never worked with that organization.

The above "discredit also states:

""To this date my clients have refused to pay any money to Gary Manning and they have not posted a single reply to his posts.""

This sounds as if they are claiming "extortion" on my part which isn't true. Once I closed my office I asked the General Manager of the company, Jon Warren, to be reimbursed for my expenses since I went into an association with their business in good faith but their misleading sales tactics didn't provide a good faith environment. He said no and that was the last time it was mentioned.

Back in my younger days I also managed a Burger King Restaurant which he didn't mention. I'm sure my restaurant had a complaint during the 4 years I was there but when my customers paid their money for a whopper fries and coke, well, that's exactly what they got!

Anything else anyone wants to know about me please ask and I'll be happy to answer.

Howard, I guess you must be losing some sales to get a feed back from you or whatever lacky you had post this. Thanks for that feedback. It's nice to know I am making a difference.

It's curious the company doesn't address how valuable their service is to the timeshare owner. This is because they have no way to remotely even claim, much less prove, this.

Individuals still actively working in a known scam industry trying to "discredit" anyone is funny.

If you really wanted to "Discredit" me Jon, all you had to do was mention I was once associated with your company. That's enough to discredit anyone. However, I'm doing my best to make up for that.

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#2 Consumer Comment

Gary is probably 100% on with his post

AUTHOR: Steve - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, July 25, 2007

And Legal in Orlando is probably blowing smoke.

Let's be honest. If the timeshare resale industry is so honest and above board, why does the Federal Trade Commission recommend the following (taken from the FTC web site):

"Selling a Timeshare

If you want to sell your deeded timeshare, and a company approaches you offering to resell your timeshare, go into skeptic mode:

* Don't agree to anything over the phone or online until you've had a chance to check out the reseller. Contact the Better Business Bureau, state Attorney General, and local consumer protection agencies in the state where the reseller is located. Ask if any complaints are on file.
* Ask the salesperson for all information in writing.
* Ask if the reseller's agents are licensed to sell real estate where your timeshare is located. If so, verify it with the Real Estate Commission. Deal only with licensed real estate brokers and agents, and ask for references from satisfied clients.
* Ask how the reseller will advertise and promote the timeshare unit. Will you get progress reports? How often?
* Ask about fees and timing. It's preferable to do business with a reseller that takes its fee after the timeshare is sold. If you must pay a fee in advance, ask about refunds. Get refund policies and promises in writing.
* Don't assume you'll recoup your purchase price for your timeshare, especially if you've owned it for less than five years and the location is less than well-known.
* If you want an idea of the value of a timeshare that you're interested in buying or selling, consider using a timeshare appraisal service. The appraiser should be licensed in the state where the service is located. Check with the state to see if the license is current."

I was contacted recently by a person from Legal's own company recently seeking $1000 to re-sell my time share. The person claimed they had buyers waiting and lots of happy sellers. When I asked for some names so I could verify that, she refused, citing privacy reasons. My conclusion: There were none.

The salesperson went on to state how good the company was and how reputable. I could find nothing in the BBB under the company name she gave. When I stated that she finally gave the correct legal name and the BB report was a lot less than glowing. Even the BBB advised against doing business with this company.

I asked all the above questions and did not get a satisfactory answer to any of them. Most were brushed aside as too irrelevant to even ask. If the FTC believes it's important to ask, I tend to agree with them.

Needless to say, no money changed hands and the salesperson went on to try to find the next sucker.

Respond to this report!
What's this?

#1 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Gary Manning TN Discredit

AUTHOR: Legal - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, July 24, 2007

PLEASE BE ADVISED.

Gary Manning is utilizing consumer reports and timeshare industry forums to share the slanted view of his experience with my clients. To this date my clients have refused to pay any money to Gary Manning and they have not posted a single reply to his posts. Unfortunately he has gone too far with his slander and libel. To discredit Gary Manning a history of his employment and career involvement is due. Gary Manning managed "Vacation Break USA" a vacation package company. He sold vacation packages up to $899 in up front fees. It was alleged that the "travel and timeshare marketer deceived consumers into thinking they won "free" vacations that ultimately cost them hundreds of dollars". A link to the report below. Gary also worked for "APEX Marketing" who had multiple investigations from multiple states Attorney Generals and an uproar of consumer complaints. Another link below shows the numerous consumer complaints. These are only some of Gary Manning's involvements and more recently he has been involved with Caribe Marketing, who is also under scrutiny. See below. Please be advised that Gary's comments are only a tactic of libel. He has only recently given the appearance of being generally concerned with the timeshare resale market. My clients are in preparation of filing suit against Gary Manning for his slander and libel. Continued publication of his existing or responding posts might involve a cease and desist order to your internet service or hosting provider. This discredit of Gary Manning is being submitted to all websites and forums that Gary Manning is utilizing. All information is deemed to be true and has been collected by public sources.

PLEASE BE ADVISED.

Gary Manning at Vacation Break USA

http://www.ct.gov/ag/cwp/view.asp?A=1772&Q=282386

Gary Manning at APEX Marketing

http://www.ripoffreport.com/results.asp?q1=ALL&q5=Apex+Marketing&submit2=Search%21&q4=&q6=&q3=&q2=&q7=&searchtype=0

Gary Manning and Caribe Marketing

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/179/ripoff0179345.htm

Respond to this report!
What's this?
Featured Reports

Advertisers above have met our
strict standards for business conduct.

X
What do hackers,
questionable attorneys and
fake court orders have in common?
...Dishonest Reputation Management Investigates Reputation Repair
Free speech rights compromised

WATCH News
Segment Now