Fifth & Third Bank deceptive business practices Charlotte North Carolina

There is a large group of customers on one side of the aisle who prefer their card be denied at the point-of-sale if the balance is zero. They don't mind the inconvenience or the embarrassment, unlike those on the other side of this argument. Can the card be denied at zero balance in all cases? No. But just because there's one or two exceptions, does that mean it's not worth it at all? Of course not. These consumers are referring to the majority of cases where it can be denied at common retail locations, like Starbucks, Walmart, McDonald's, etc. As well as ATM machines. In other words the cases of where it can be done far outnumber the few exceptions where it cannot be done.

It's constantly yelled to the consumers by banks and their supporters 'don't spend more money than you have'. Okay, so why let them? Better yet, why allow it by default? Doesn't it make more sense not to allow this by default, but instead only after the special, exclusive request of the customer (opt-in)? The banks emphasize not to spend more money than you have on the one hand, while allowing it by default and reaping the fee benefits on the other hand. It's nothing more than hypocritical nonsense (to put it nicely).

I'm fairly certain the members on the Federal Reserve Board realize this. After all, they're the experts who only eat, sleep, and breathe banking rules, regulations, and practices. But ah, what do they know? I will write a letter to the Federal Reserve Board advising them to stop the presses on their new proposed regulation changes to Federal Regulation E and overdraft protection. I will try and convince the expert Federal Reserve Board that this is a big waste of time because it's not the problem. I will advise them that Flynrider of Phoenix has it all figured out and has enlightened everyone.

Of course there are numerous exceptions to what may cause overdrafts, even when you do or don't have overdraft protection. No one is complaining about that. The majority of these complaints are for the majority of cases where it can be prevented.

There is the group of customers out there who prefer their card be denied at the point-of-sale. Can this be done for them in all cases? No. But just because there's one or two exceptions, does that mean it's not worth it at all? Of course not. These consumers are referring to the majority of cases where it can be denied at common retail locations, like Starbucks, Walmart, McDonalds, etc. As well as ATM machines. In other words the cases of where it can be done far outnumber the few exceptions where it cannot be done.

I'm fairly certain the members on the Federal Reserve Board realize this. After all, they're the experts who only eat, sleep, and breathe banking rules, regulations, and practices. But ah, what do they know?

I will write a letter to the Federal Reserve Board advising them to stop the presses on their new proposed regulation changes to Federal Regulation E and overdraft protection. I will try and convince the expert Federal Reserve Board that this is a big waste of time because it's not the problem. I will advise them that Flynrider of Phoenix has it all figured out and has enightened everyone.

Here is the thing, many of you have expressed that : if i cannot manage an account, i should deal in cash only and not deal with a bank..well, generally i would, but this is 2009 and majority of business transactions require so sort of banking. I sell on ebay, and have a paypal account, thus i need a bank account for my money to be deposited into.

never the less, i dont feel "im" the problem. I am 36 and have had bank accounts my whole life, and have never had this many problems, as i have had with Fifht Third Bank.

Do not dictate to me how banks are ran, im very familiar. What im saying, is there online banking statements are very misleading to say the least compared with other online banks i have had...

For example: i went in a coupld days ago to my local branch and asked for some education on how i should read there online statements. As many have said, i should keep an actual paper registry to keep track of my balance. I am now doing just that.

Many poster assume im dumb, im very aware of how transactions work, for example at a gas pump,or if you go out to dine, you charge to your debit card, yet leave a tip on the receipt , it will show later.. So again, i know how all that works, im not disputing that. What is funny about all this, the day after i initially posted this complaint, i called and spoke , again, to several different people with Fifth Third, each one told me something totally different, one said i DO have overdraft protection, another said i did not because you have to have a back up funding for it. by the way, if you do have back up funding and funds need to be transfered, its a $10 fee. Another rep told me i did have it on there but shows it was removed but is likely to , well, some day out of the clear blue be placed back on there!!!


How is there online statement misleading? well, example, this morning, now 8 am, i just checked my online statement, it shows "available balance" $20.38...shows daily balance for yesterday 8-12-09 $11.24...last nite before going to bed, my balance, which is whats in my registry $1.12... so, i think to myself, WHAT DO I ACTUALLY HAVE AVAILABLE TO ME TO SPEND? $20.38? 11.24? 1.12?..WITH ALL MY other banks i have had, ive always went by the "available balance" ( funds you currently have available)..im very familiar with the "pending transactions" and how they calculate into the balance... for example, i transfered a couple days ago money from paypal like $15.00, its now showing this morning as "pending" but i see its been added to the available. since it hasnt posted yet, does it mean its "available" ...any other bank wouldnt add that to the "available balance" until it has actually posted, so yea, Fifth Third is getting over on me because they want me to believe it is what i have available so ill use it, even though its "pretend" there and available. DOES ANYONE SEE MY POINT?

its the fact that there online banking is complicated to make heads/tails of.

Edward wrote :"Bobby, You CLEARLY and SPECIFICALLY expressed your desire to OPT-OUT of overdraft protection. This DID NOT happen as you requested. While much of the information provided in the previous rebuttals is true, NONE of the previous rebuttals answer your SPECIFIC question or complaint here."

   Bobby is attempting to dictate to the bank how debit cards should work.  He can give specific instructions all day long, but it's not going to change how the system works.  Because of the way debits are approved and posted (clearly described by Ashley), overdrafts can occur even though the money appears to be in the account at the time of purchase.   There is no way around this besides keeping a check register.   I would suggest that if Bobby is unable to track his account activity on his own, that he not use a debit card.  As has been posted on this site innumerable times, going by the online balance will invariably result in overdrafts.

"The proposed changes would require financial institutions to obtain the consumers affirmative consent (OPT-IN) before enrolling them in overdraft protection..."
- Yes they have PROPOSED that. Of course you could propose that banks should allow you to overdraft up to $500 without any fees. The key being that until it becomes law you can't do that.

However, as has been pointed out even if this does become law. If you don't "opt-in", it would still be possible to Overdraft. Based on what the OP wrote, no amount of regulation is going to keep them from overdrafting at some point. There are some people who just should not have access to a bank account.

IF(and these are big if's). If the OP filled out a form that said they wanted to "opt-out". If there was nothing that said it was not permenant. If they did not overdraft because of the reasons mentioned. Then the OP may have a legitimate argument for having the fees refunded.

It's amazing how the tables can always be turned back on to the consumer even when the bank has VIOLATED clear instructions by the consumer for their account.

Bobby, You CLEARLY and SPECIFICALLY expressed your desire to OPT-OUT of overdraft protection. This DID NOT happen as you requested. While much of the information provided in the previous rebuttals is true, NONE of the previous rebuttals answer your SPECIFIC question or complaint here. So here's the REAL answer for you.

The Federal Reserve Board has proposed rule changes to Federal Regulation E. The proposed changes would require financial institutions to obtain the consumers affirmative consent (OPT-IN) before enrolling them in overdraft protection. If adopted, this would prevent Fifth Third from doing what they did here.

There are reasons why this cannot be removed. There are many transactions that can be authorized that will overdraft your account even without protection.

if you go get gas at the pump, they will charge 1$ to your account. The next day when they finalize the transaction they will refund the 1$ and then charge the real amount.

SO

say you have 50$ in the bank

you get 35$ in gas and then check your available balance

It will say: 50 - 1 = 49$ available.

So you go buy something at walmart for 40$ thinking you are okay.

The next day the 1$ is refunded.

50 - 35 - 40 = -25$

This will happen if you do not balance your check book. If you are unable to keep a check register and balance your check book, then you need to deal exclusivly in cash. Throw away your debit card and ask for an ATM only card. Then withdraw money from your bank's ATM to make purchases. This should stop you from overdrafting.

Bobby, you seem to have a misconception about debit cards. To begin with, it will not stop or get rejected due to insufficient funds. That would happen whether you have overdraft protection or not. Having that on your account (or not) when you use a debit card is pointless. If you have a savings account, you can tie the two together so that you avoid having the checking account stay in the red for more than a day. On the other hand, some banks charge for that convenience each time it's used, so if you're in the red a lot....it may not reduce your fees.

If you decide to switch banks - keep this in mind:

ALL BANKS ARE THE SAME

The only difference is the name on the front of the building. Don't be fooled into thinking one bank is better than another. They aren't. If you overdraft at one place, you will overdraft like that at the next place.

I don't know if you are being serious. But if you are and KNOW you will overdraft then you should NOT have a banking account. A bank is not your babysitter, if you want someone to manage your account then you need to hire an accountant.

"none of this would have happened if..."
- No, none of this would have happened if you had managed your account.

First consider yourself lucky that you don't write paper checks. Because if you have a paper check returned for NSF, that is a form of Check Fraud. Depending on the company that you had the check returned they would either turn you over to a company such as Telecheck or SCAN and you can forget about writing a check at any other store. Or they may turn you over to the local District Attorney who would prosecute you for Check Fraud. Perhaps if they move these same laws over to people who overdraft using a Debit Card, people may realize that they need to manage their account.

Now even if you tell them to not allow Overdrafts it can still happen. You said you don't use "paper" checks, but I do find that hard to believe if you have any bills at all. Because anytime you enter your Checking Account & Routing Number instead of your Debit Card Number they are processing the transaction through an ACH transaction. This is different than a Debit Card Purchase. An ACH is similar to a check in they submit these in batches, so it may be 1-2 business days before it even shows up depending on these processing times. During this time if you are relying on your "Available Balance" you will be in trouble.

Example 1. You have $100 Available and submit an $80 ACH. Your bank balance will still show $100. So if you use your Debit Card for $50 it will be authorized because your bank thinks you have $100. Then when the ACH comes in that night you now have $20 Available. The next day the $50 gets posted from pending, even though it will put you -$30 banking regulation require any pending authorized transactions to be paid. So you WILL get an overdraft and fee.

Example 2. When you go to a Gas Station they will authorize $1 if you go to the Pay at the Pump. As long as you have $1 you can pump as much as you want. However, it will be 2-3 days before the actual amount you pumped will be submited to your bank. So if you have $30 available your on-line banking will show you have $29, but if you pumped $25 it will be off by $24 until the Gas Station submits the real amount. So if you use your debit card for $20 because you "think" you have enough, again when the real debit of $25 you will overdraft because they have to pay the authorized transaction. Remember the transaction was authorized with the $1, they can debit the real amount even if greater than the amount authorized.

There are other examples, but these tend to be the most common. That is among people who feel it is not their responsibilty but the bank's to manage THEIR money.

"i will be closing my account just as SOON as i get this taken care of."
- If this is truly your attitude that your bank is the one who should tell you when you are out of money we will be waiting on your next report from your next bank.

As a side note if they are only charging you $25 per OD, it sounds as if you either got a good deal or they have reduced the fee. Because I believe that they were in the $30+ range in the recent past.

you'd be taken more seriously. It's FIFTH THIRD,not fifth and third. Pitiful.

you'd be taken more seriously. It's FIFTH THIRD,not fifth and third. Pitiful.

you'd be taken more seriously. It's FIFTH THIRD,not fifth and third. Pitiful.