National Water And PowerRipoff Fraudulent Billing Practices Santa Ana California

Get an attorney and see how fast your money is returned to you!
If this was legal, refunds would not be issued!
DUH!!!!!!!!!
Make some phone calls to local agencies and you will be told this is a rip off!
NW&P will be glad to take your money if you give it to them!

Oh yeah! If it isn't a rip off then why am I getting a FULL REFUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It pays to stand up for your rights!
Yipee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Finally justice!

Chris

Chris, you really need a reality check. The tenants who now pay NWP bills in Shelli's apt complex are either new tenants or have had lease renewals. They were not hand picked to be screwed over by the Mgmt company or NWP. You've been watching too many X Files reruns.

Seriously, $40/month for water, sewer and trash is about right. Try owning a home because $40 is right on par - $16.95/mo for trash (BFI), ~ $60 every three months for water/sewer. But, if you are this apoplectic about NWP's $3 fees and $40 bills for water, sewer and trash, I sure hope you are as apopletic about your sky-high property taxes when you own a home, if you ever do.

The rest of us realize nothing is for free, but that's what you want - to live in an aparment without having to pay for anything. Mgmt Companies are not going to subsidize your utilities any more. Get used to it. Or else go buy a house or townhome or condo.

The 6 people in your complex were probably hand picked by the apartment management. Folks they thought would pay without question! How sick!
You need to lead them to this sight and educate these folks that they are being lied to and ripped off! They can call their local water district and find out first hand that they are not paying the local water district for their water. Shelli, also check National Water And Power on this sight for even more rip off reports. Watch out as it seems that NW&P have invaded your complex. Are these 6 residents new tennants? Sometimes Apt Management Companies spring this one on new tennants. Again, this is clearly a ripoff scam. BEWARE!!!! Fight Back as there are allot of lawsuits in motion.

I have not received a bill from this company, but a few of the tenants in my apartment complex have received bills "supposedly" from this company for sewer, water and trash services. None of the tenants have questioned the Apt Management company; they willingly and unquestionably pay the $40.00 per month. I know that I would IMMEDIATELY question my Apt Management Company, esp. since I am already a victim of identity theft.

Also, I know that there are scams by companies such as the "Yellow Pages Billing Service" that unwittingly bill small businesses $75.00 for an advertisement that was never ordered nor "real" and that the businesses paid without question. I cannot believe that only 6 of 75 units in our complex are required to pay to National Water and Power and that the rest are not billed at all. I wonder if there is a phishing type of scam going on with billing apt renters on "official" looking paper that is not legit.

If anyone else has experienced something similar, please let me know. Oh, and the funny part is, the $3 fee you have been talking about does not exist on the bill for the 6 tenants currently "paying" National Water and Power and no notification has been provided by the management of the apartment building....

Understand this, Your Property Management Company told NW&P what to bill you. The Property Management Company Ripped You Off! Were you offered a refund? I bet not.
NW&P is a billing company with a phony name. They do not supply your water, sewage, and trash.
The apt. complex pays for these utilities and NW&P get the money from you to pay them back.
Compare billing with the other residents. Are you all paying the same for the same unit and household members? I bet not!
There are things residents can do to stop this rip off! Call your local Board Of Supervisiors, Fair Housing, Local television stations that have a consumer hotline, last but not least an attorney. Residents need to join together. This needs to be stopped for future tennants that this is sprung on!

Understand this, Your Property Management Company told NW&P what to bill you. The Property Management Company Ripped You Off! Were you offered a refund? I bet not.
NW&P is a billing company with a phony name. They do not supply your water, sewage, and trash.
The apt. complex pays for these utilities and NW&P get the money from you to pay them back.
Compare billing with the other residents. Are you all paying the same for the same unit and household members? I bet not!
There are things residents can do to stop this rip off! Call your local Board Of Supervisiors, Fair Housing, Local television stations that have a consumer hotline, last but not least an attorney. Residents need to join together. This needs to be stopped for future tennants that this is sprung on!

Understand this, Your Property Management Company told NW&P what to bill you. The Property Management Company Ripped You Off! Were you offered a refund? I bet not.
NW&P is a billing company with a phony name. They do not supply your water, sewage, and trash.
The apt. complex pays for these utilities and NW&P get the money from you to pay them back.
Compare billing with the other residents. Are you all paying the same for the same unit and household members? I bet not!
There are things residents can do to stop this rip off! Call your local Board Of Supervisiors, Fair Housing, Local television stations that have a consumer hotline, last but not least an attorney. Residents need to join together. This needs to be stopped for future tennants that this is sprung on!

My apartment complex dumped National Water and Power six months ago, and things could not have worked out better. The owner of the apartment complex felt NW&P was illegally charging fees, so she decided to drop the service, instead of fearing resident lawsuits. Things could not have worked out better since NW&P left our property.

If your propery management company is involved with NW&P and you have been a victim of the ripoff scam please call your local television station that has a consumer hot line. They will be more than happy to investigate. Also Please contact the Board Of Supervisior in your town. They will also investigate. This is clearly a scam to take money from residents and put it back in the pocket of the proprety management company. Don't delay...Call your local Board Of Supervisior TODAY!

If your propery management company is involved with NW&P and you have been a victim of the ripoff scam please call your local television station that has a consumer hot line. They will be more than happy to investigate. Also Please contact the Board Of Supervisior in your town. They will also investigate. This is clearly a scam to take money from residents and put it back in the pocket of the proprety management company. Don't delay...Call your local Board Of Supervisior TODAY!

If your propery management company is involved with NW&P and you have been a victim of the ripoff scam please call your local television station that has a consumer hot line. They will be more than happy to investigate. Also Please contact the Board Of Supervisior in your town. They will also investigate. This is clearly a scam to take money from residents and put it back in the pocket of the proprety management company. Don't delay...Call your local Board Of Supervisior TODAY!

If your propery management company is involved with NW&P and you have been a victim of the ripoff scam please call your local television station that has a consumer hot line. They will be more than happy to investigate. Also Please contact the Board Of Supervisior in your town. They will also investigate. This is clearly a scam to take money from residents and put it back in the pocket of the proprety management company. Don't delay...Call your local Board Of Supervisior TODAY!

Chris, Todd, George, et al

I have solid knowledge of NWP because I work in the apartment management business and I can fully attest to the fact that NWP is not a ripoff...I will explain.

Historically, NWP started as a result of new legislation in California in the mid 90's that allowed apartment management companies to pass along water costs to its residents. The impetus for this was that water was being wasted in staggering levels in apartment buildings in California that something had to be done. Apartment management companies were not equipped to directly charge residents and used to simply add a fee on top of rent to cover things such as water/sewer/trash.

But, apartment management companies were losing tons of money because the fees they charge residents came no where near covering the costs of the massive water wasting going on in apartment buildings from things such as leaky toilets and published stories of residents running their showers all night because the sound of the running water helped them sleep.

It was in those days where you, the resident, were getting ripped off because you were paying for water use of everyone else in your building. In those days, if your water fee was $20/month and the guy next door to you used $40/month in water while you used $10/month in water, nopt only were you paying for water you didn't use, but also subsidizing your neighbors water use. And this was exactly the reason NWP was founded - to bill residents for exactly what they use.

Believe me, mgmt companies do not like collecting money for non-rent stuff such as utilities, pool maintenace, grounds keeping, laundry facilities, driveway paving, snow removal, etc.

The cost of collecting this money and hiring people to manage these service is huge. These increased costs lead directly to higher rents and is where NWP comes in.

NWP can do all this stuff for a mgmt company at the fraction of the cost it used to cost mgmt companies. The $3 fee is the cost of the mgmt company doing business with NWP and is a fee negotiated between NWP and the mgmt company. In your apartment complex, the fee may be $3. Here in Minnesota, the fee is $4 in some apartment complexes, $3 in others, $5 in still others, and so on...but, each mgmt company is separately negotiating this fee with NWP. If you have a problem with it, talk to your mgmt company because NWP is only charging the fee the mgmt company has agreed to with NWP.

Every utility, phone company, cable company, satellite TV company, trash collecting company, city water company, etc... has 'customer charges' which cover maintaining their meters, gas for the meter reading trucks, postage, printing, bill insert machines, trash bins, water testing, power plant maintenance, cell phone tower maintenance, eletricity to run the facility - anything not related directly to the price of the commodity.

NWP has the exact same thing called the 'service fee' and is, as I mentioned, a pre-arranged fee with your mgmt company. This is why NWP is not regulated - because the mgmt company of your apt building is acting at your rate case instead of an oversight commission which public utilities have.

Your issue with late fees is also misplaced. This is another component that is negotiated between NWP and the mgmt company. If your late fee is $7, it is because the mgmt company has negotiated this fee with NWP. In fact, everything that is billed to you as a resident is done only with the permission of the mgmt company. This is why NWP is not ripping you off - the mgmt company of your apartment is telling NWP exactly how much to bill the resident.

I am aware that there are software problems that NWP is experiencing in their billing systems which is the reason some mgmt companies leave NWP. Some of the problems you are seeing on your bills could be related to these flaws and while these flaws are continually being corrected, some mgmt companies will decide to leave NWP and go back to the old way I explained in the first paragraph. But, companies like NWP (there are 2 other companies similar to NWP in the USA) are here to stay and are not ripping off residents.

NWP has a pretty good track record overall, but if you live in an apartment building that is managed by a larger company, chances are they will be using NWP or one of the other companies similar to NWP, because the days of the mgmt company paying resident utility usage are gone.

I am not trying to change your mind about NWP, just telling you how they do business and why you pay these fees. If you call NWP, they will try to answer whatever questions you may have. I have called them several times and have always gotten a straight answer from them whether or not I agreed with it.

I got some great news today from my landlord. Due to tennant complaints, and other issues, National Water and Power is being phased out of my apartment complex. The power of capitalism does work to the consumers benefit!

Thank you rip off report, for all the good things you do for us consumers!

Chris,

You state that NWP charges $3 monthly service charge as a hidden cost, undisclosed to its customers. I just e-mailed NWP and inquired what their service charge was all about. They responded right away and stated it was a charge for covering the cost of their doing business. I had also inquired about the name of the utilities that they were billing for in their monthly statement to me and they referred me to the leasing office where I live. I do intend to follow-up and speak with the leasing office about this matter, as it has been several years since my last inquiry over this matter.

Your insistance that other utilities do not charge a service charge when billing directly is absolutely wrong (get used to it). See one of my previous posts about this.

There is one more thing I would like you to know. Even though I take a completely different approach on this than you do, I intend to do some follow-up work here (you should have done this before mouthing off). I intend to find out exactly who the three utility companies (water, trash & sewer) are that NWP is doing the billing for in my area. I then intend to contact each of these companies and inquire as to a breakdown of what their rates are. I will then compare these figures to the information I am able to receive from the leasing office here. If there is a rip-off going here I will definately be the one screaming the loudest, but right now it is just premature to do so as I do not have the necessary information, and obviously you have not obtained the necessary information. I will post my results here when I get them.

Yes sir you are a schill for National Water and Power! The reason why a lawsuit would come into being, is because NW&P does not disclose their "fees" for services up front. This a common complaint for this company. No regulated utility would be allowed to act in this manner. There is no way to audit what National Water & Power is charging it's customers, you have no idea if you are being under or overcharged. By your own admisssion, you point out that one can't audit what is billed for. In my apartment property, residents have moved out due to the problems they had with National Water & Power. Residents rather move elsewhere, than deal with the headache of National Water & Power, this is the power of capitalism. If consumers feel that they are being screwed, they move elsewhere.
If you are telling me that this is a great company because: they can bill for services with no audits performed, they charge fees with no up front disclosure and they can make up due dates at will so the bills will be late. Then sir, you are a most certainly a schill for National Water & Power.
Even the most uneducated consumer can see from your own admissions, that you are a schill for National Water & Power. I would suggest that you stop posting on this topic. You are just reinforcing my point and embarrassing yourself, and making it obvious that are an employee or attorney for this company.
I am going to ask other National Water & Power customers at my complex, to post their experiences.

Chris,
First off, I am not a schill for NWP and I believe that you need to get a life because you are way off base here.

All other utility companies (providers) include in their bills the cost of providing their services to the consumer. It is included in the cost of the utility that they provide. Because they are the providers they are allowed to include this cost to the consumer. Next time you get an electric bill from your local utility take a carefull look at the break-down they provide of their charges. If this is not provided on your local bill then you should ask them for the break-down.

NWP is not a provider of utilities for consumers, instead they are providing a billing service to consumers for those providers (trash, water & sewer service) rather than each provider submitting seperate bills to the consumer. This increases the overall effeciency for not only the providers but you and I as consumers as well. The $3 service charge is their way of getting the income to pay for the service they provide (just like all other utility companies).

Five years ago when the apartment complex where I live started using NWP I was very much outraged like you are. I questioned the property management as to the method used to determine which portion of the over bill for the whole complex was truly my portion. They described to me a formula which determined each tenants portion by the size of their living unit (one bedroom, two bedroom, three bedroom). There are 780 units in the complex I live in and while I argued that without a meter on each unit they could not know whether my usage was more or less than what they came up with in their formula, by the end of the discussion it became obvious to me that even though their set up may not be the fairest way to go, it certainly was equitable for everyone involved. My monthly rent has gone up a little bit every year since I have been living here, but the two years after they started using NWP there were no rent increases at all.

As far as their billing and late charges, I agree with you that they need to allow more time between their meter readings and their due dates because sometimes by the time they get their billing out it is almost the due date. I have noticed that in the past year this has become less of a problem where I live, as I have been receiving their bills in a much regular fashion.

While acknowledging your right to complain on this forum, I think you should think out what you are saying before you start talking about a lawsuit. Everyone in todays society wants to start a lawsuit every time they either do not understand something or they disagree with someone. Some times that is the right thing to do, but in this case I am reminded of the little boy who cried wolf to many times.

Have a nice day -

Well to respond to your biased answer, you must obviously work for National Water & Power, and your company must check this board every day for new rip off posts; which is no surprise to me. Does the phone company charge $3 to send you a bill? Does the electric company charge $3 to send you a bill? Does the cable company charge $3 to send you a bill? The answer to all these are NO! If a utlity company charged National Water & Power $3 a month to send out a bill, they would gripe and complain about it themselves! For a company to make up charges and not disclose any of these charges in a contract or in advance when the lease is signed, is bad business. Had I known this company would bill $3 a month for the mailings of my bills, and charge an outrageous late charge, which is no where in my contract, I never would have moved in this apartment complex. The non disclosure and random fees, is the issue everyone has with National Water & Power. The best way to deal with National Water & Power is: do not patronize the apartment properties for which they bil. So if you don't like the fees they stick you with, then move, thats captalism at its best. But like I stated earlier, if utility company made National Water & Power pay $3 a month to send out a bill, they would not stand for it, and niether should I.

Hi Todd,

I too have been billed for many years now by National Water & Power for services at the complex I live at. You do not explain why you think the $3.00 service charge is a ripoff. It is supposedly a charge to cover their costs and expenses (office, personnel, mailings, etc.) for supplying their services to appartment dwellers. In over five years I have been paying them for water, trash and sewer services I have always received their monthly bill in a timely manner. If you are not receiving your bills in a timely manner I think you should check with your local post office as to why not. As far as their late fee, I do not know of any home utility company that does not charge a late fee when the payment is not submitted on time. If you have any information exactly why you think their $3.00 service charge is a ripoff please let me know, as I certainly would like to pursue this if my assumption is not accurate.