United American Insurance Company Ripoff Dishonest hiring practices and defrauding consumers with worthless health insurance policies Citrus Heights California

I very much appreciate the reports & rebuttals posted. I am scheduled to interview w/UA next week (1 1/2-2 hrs from my home), & am not very familiar with the company. Obviously, I am conducting my research on the web, & this site came up during my search.

Being unlicensed at present, I was hesitant to set up the interview, but knew I could get more details from research (e.g., company background, pay structure--no straight commission!, etc.). Point being, I need a job, but not one that will COST me money!! Of course, licensing & testing cost $, too, but the bigger companies will pay these fees for trainees, as well as salary.

Thanks much for all of your info.!!

Addressing the concerns of those who never read their policy!!
Reply: at least you as a loyal employee responded, I don't think from your response that you as a manager/agent or any of the other manager agents, have ever confirmed that you or the others use the insurance you sell, even the premium coverage as the health insurance protection for you or your family relies upon.

Note the reply from the Ex-employee the higher ups used the BC-BS for their coverage.

I would like to address the comments made by this user in a cohesive and coherent form:
Reply: yes you gave responses to each point, but luckily I too once took debate and am quite familiar with a point-counterpoint response. The average customer does not think the word insurance means some token payment "for the effort" so to speak. The person buying insurance believes they have real protection against the costs, and trusts that the upper cap on even your best policy would prevent their financial ruination.

UA is at least insurance, but extremely poor, and in fact will cost you more money than it could pay in benefits.

UA (called that primarily by agents of which I assume you might a disgruntled one) IS insurance. It pays some benefit from the first dollar of expense. It is not and has never purported to be a major medical policy.

Reply: I have never worked for UA, and yes UA SHOULD pay a token amount, on the policy I was sold, but even your top-of the line policy has caps that are low, and your agents don't seem to know how low the cap is compared to ever increasing charges that a covered event will be charged, (See below for some numbers)

They offer to pay only for in patient hospital stays some token amount of 1-200 dollars a day, nothing else for an overnight stay.

There are so many policies available under the rubric of the United American Insurance Company, that is would be libelous to say that ALL of the policies pay only for in patient hospital stays. If that is the chosen policy, of course it will only pay for $100 to $200 per day. However, the premier product and, by far, the most popular product pays 80% up to $4,000 per day for daily room and board at a hospital.

Reply: You left out the low upper cap and the monthly cost of that premier product, and ignore the fact that Room and board charges will not be even 60% of an average bill for a hospital stay. Ok not all, but show an example with real data, of how it didn't cost more, or respond with a PMPM for medical benefits? Most sales literature likes to hit the topics and word the non-insider person, as in the average customer, likes and create a feeling of benefit, careful of using libelous as that could be considered to slanderous!As a licensed Life agent, can you guess within even 10% of how much the hospital bill is for therapeutics and diagnostic procedures? Or what the averaged total billed cost of a hospital stay per day? I understand that an agent should know the definition of what "is" is, but your clients don't. So under the rubric of common understanding before a jury of their peers, your rhetoric would inexorably induce somnambulance or other altered state of less than full understanding

Un-discounted charges at hospitals average 15-20 times that amount for a stay, and worse a patient would get a better rate for 'no-insurance' and working to pay off the stay, then having the provider 'bill' the insurance.

Yes, standard, retail charges at a hospital can be high. But what you are really getting with a PPO network and an insurance company that uses them is the negotiated rate and then the insurance company pays towards that negotiated rate. For example, let's say that the daily room and board charge is retail at $6,500 per day. With a PPO negotiation it may come as low as $4,000 per day of which a patient would pay 80%.

Reply: Can be High? They are high! Lets use your $6,500 a day number and the customer could be responsible $800 plus doctors, transport, therapeutic, diagnostic, etc. (More below)

Example standard cost of an overnight stay in an observation unit gross charge $2,980

If you used UA, and IF UA paid the bill for such a stay they would send the hospital $100, and the patient would be on the hook $2,380 out of pocket; after the provider gave a discount to an accepted local fee schedule, amounts are estimates from a 20 year professional of Health care finance and 9 year financial professional with major health insurance companies. (for this benefit you pay them a 100 a month btw, and surgery coverage hah, less than 1 in 100 patients has an inpatient surgical procedure for any hospital stay)

So, let's use your example: a gross hospital charge of $2,980. With the discount, the charge would be reduced to around $2,586 and UA would pay $100. This plan reflects the lowest priced policy available. The agent would present this plan when the client complained that the price of everything else was too expensive and he or she could not afford a better plan. What is accomplished in this scenario is that the client has access at least to the highest quality of healthcare available even if they have some potential out of pocket at the termination of the medical event.

Reply: Your response is that UA would pay the hospital the equivalent of one month of premium for the lowest priced policy? So then the lowest policy is worthless as the customer owes more to the hospital with UA, then without, and is out the premium. The client would have access to the highest quality healthcare because they have an UA card? (Yeah right, lets see you pull that off in Palm Desert if closest hospital is where Sinatra was taken ;). And their potential out of pocket is about a probable certainty as one can get. So what would the cost of your premier coverage plan be and how much would it reimburse? Go ahead don't be afraid use a real charge from a real patient bill in California where you work apparently.


The 'no insurance' standard write off by the hospital with less negotiation would be out of pocket $1,200.
The fact that hospitals have to take these write offs at all, due to indigent people or those who simply skip out on the bill, is the reason the insurance submission rates are so high.

Reply: I will remember not to contact you or your agency for relief, help for the homeless, or assistance for the poor. However cost shifting through charge increase from those who cant pay to those that do is real and will continue, in fact UA customers had better have pretty substantial assets to pay those non covered charges, co-pays. Really have you, Ex-employee ever had a covered visit? Using even the premium plan? What about the costs of outpatient care, therapies, doctor visits, medication charges. People need insurance to cover most if not all of their medical charges, not pieces. Most of us poor folks can't afford to spend more for limited insurance then we do on mortgages or rent each month.

Why? do things like this happen, if you look around and ask the right people in patient finance/admissions/ medical clinics billing organizations( which is a long frustrating ordeal of being passed off from one to another) you will find that frequently providers charge more for the hassle of going through insurance than their cash price. Not all providers have a cash/no insurance price.

Are you aware that it is illegal in these here United States to charge one party one price and another a completely different price? The price is the same for the insurance companies and what you get by paying your one hundred dollars each month is the power of the negotiated PPO price that the insurance company has been able to acquire due to the volume of its patients it is submitting to the provider.

Reply: Charges aren't different but the discounts sure are,some pigs are more equal than other pigs (orwell). And your counterpoint ignores prior point that the one hundred dollars a month is paying for the privilege of paying more out of pocket for the procedure (observation visit above) than with the insurance. ( no UA $1,200 out of pocket, with UA $2,486 and the monthly premium, using your numbers above)

In short, the math of how insurance companies work is you pay a monthly amount, they pay the agent, the office, the boss, the other printing and administrative charges (per member per month, its the insurance bizz talk) and then the insurance company invests in a pool to fund your charges, and you guessed it not much, I would bet the 'risk' financed by my monthly fee is probably about a dollar a month given the age of my wife and I.

Of course UA might tell you its major medical coverage but the benefits they pay, were exceed by providers in the 1960's!

No UA agent can ever tell you that what you are enrolling in is major medical and in point of fact, one of the documents you sign upon enrollment is acknowledgment that this policy as low priced as it was clearly not major medical.
Reply: NO Agent should, ours did not to both their credits, but it is still the lowest benefit for the cost I have ever seen presented, or verbally promised. The premium plan, we had an over the phone quote was better coverage and almost 5X as much, and still left gaping coverage holes. Also UA high ratings the agents and literature talk so much about are primarily on the Medigap policy. But of course that information is not readily made available, and in fact our agent in the follow up call, did not know about.

The national average for ICU Intensive care unit charges is a $100 and hour, on top of a avg. room charge of $350 per day, and then there are staffing, labs, medications, Oh and remember you still need to pay the doctor!

No comment, but I challenge your figures in the extreme. The average room charge in California starts at least at $1,000.

Reply: proves my point even more, you present California as higher in price but don't talks anything about ICU surcharges, monitoring etc. So in California a premium cover UA client would pay out of pocket $200 a day, if they had no diagnostics, no therapeutics, and not medications, and no doctors visit. I think you have just given proof to my original point.

I had two non surgical, medication and monitoring visits in the last 40 years of my life, the total bill for the 2 day stay was 25K the full insurance I had the paid the hospital $2,768. Two years later, new employer new plan, a three day stay was charged out of $35,986 after discounts the regular health insurer paid the hospital in full $3,121 including physician fees!

And I'd be willing to bet that both plans were major medical plans and not specified or limited benefit plans such UA has pioneered and made successful throughout the United States.

Reply: Yes they were HMO's, however they use the same advertising as UA does as Health insurance. These plans are currently advertised, on the same site where UA got my name from, as being comparable in price to the premium UA plan, or course if issued preferred for the PPO major med coverage. Both still leave 20% to the patient as co-pay, co-insurance, or out of pocket costs.

My agent and assistant are nice people, they didn't mislead us but, they obviously forgot when I told them I knew a few things about the system and knew a little about the insurance biz!

For any manager or higher up in UA, tell me you used the same insurance policy you peddle for you own coverage! and then back it up with some numbers.

As a manager at UA, I know of several managers and agents who have and use our policies with great success. You have a tiny, very low priced policy and, while I am sure it was all you afford, you cannot judge all of UA s policies by your inability to secure a better plan.
ExEmployee Submitted: 10/9/2007 4:24:52 PM Modified: 10/9/2007 5:52:57 PM

Reply: At least you replied, Thank you and that shows a belief that you believe UA is helping people. But saying you know several out of thousands of employees, and by lack of affirmation exclude yourself using a UA policy for health coverage, says a lot to me
Platitudes though do not help people
ExEmployee Lexy Sanford, Florida

U.S.A.
Managers with UA don't even have UA as their Health Insurance

For the Record, Branch Managers for UA and up get their Health insurance paid for its not UA, when I worked there it was Blue Cross Blue Shield, Go figure.

Oh Thank You I think that shows the original subject is not refuted, argued but not refuted. Ok dont get me started on Underwriters, i have a whole "what is insurance really supposed to be" monologue for that.

I am greatly distrubed by the untrue statements made against United American and Torchmark Corp.
United American is a REAL insurance company and has been in business since 1947. We provide many types of life and health insurance. I read in one of your filed reports that our health ins. plans "are worthless" and that real companies do not solicit resumes to hire people. The reason we contact so many people is we must literally go through 20 to 30 people to find someone who has the ethics, honesty, and work ethic it takes to do what we do and do it well. This is an self employment opportunity.

Most people do not have the self dicipline it takes to build their own business. Therefore when they fail the have to point the finger at someone else rather than themselves. Obviously they are going to point the finger at the company or the manager, both of which were just trying to give the person an opportunity to better themselves. We have over half a billion dollars worth of insurance premiums in force!

I noticed that someone reported that this is a door knocking job. Its true that in the years past that was the primary way ALL life and health ins. companies did business. But today we provide free leads to our agents and work primarily by appointment only. Torchmark Corp. is traded pubically on the New York Stock Exchange, currently trading in the low $60's per share. Torchmark is sitting at 14.6 billion dollars in holdings! This is not a scam at all!!!!!

We are simply digging for solid people to expand with! With that said, we have thousands of agents across the nation, and just like any other business, I'm sure there are bad apples out there who tarnishes our reputation, but we try to weed those out as fast as possible. I personally know of MANY we have terminated, even in managment positions, for being dishonest and some down right crooked! But for the honest hard working person, United American Ins. Co. is a great opportunity offering income potential far exceeding that of other opportunities on the market. We pay millions of dollars in claims to our satisfied policy holders each year!!! Its so sad that some people find it necessary to put others down to somehow make themselves look or feel better.
Matt Bishop--Branch Mgr.--United American Ins. Co.---And proud of it!

I AM A FIELD REP FOR UNITED AMERICAN AND IT IS THE BEST COMPANY I WORKED FOR IN THE UNITED STATES.

I WAS NEVER PROMISED ANYTHING
AND FROM DAY ONE, WAS GIVEN WARM LEADS
THE MANAGER GAVE ME A JUMP START THE FIRST 2 WEEKS. EVEN THOUGH I DONT DRIVE, I WAS GIVEN A CHANCE TO WORK WITH THEM. (ALL OTHER COMPANIES WANT THEIR AGENTS TO DRIVE WITHIN THE 50 MILES RADIUS)

UNITED AMERICAN TREATS THEIR AGENTS AS EQUALS,
INVITE THEM TO THEIR CONVENTIONS AND GIVE THEM ALL THE SUPPORT THEY CAN.

IN ANY COMPANY, THERE ARE DIFFERENT KIND OF MANAGERS PER BRANCH AND AFTER READING ALL THE REPORTS IN THIS SITE I CAN TELL YOU: THEY DONT APPLY TO MY BRANCH AND THAT IT IS A MATTER OF MAKING THE BEST OF WHAT IS OFFERED TO YOU. REMEMBER YOU HAVE TO SELL AND IF YOU FEEL THE PRODUCT IS THE RIGHT ONE FOR YOU, YOU WILL SELL.
I AM HAPPY TO REPORT I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO MAKE A GOOD LIVING WITH UNITED AMERICAN.

FEEL FREE TO CONTACT ME FOR REFERENCES.

THANK YOU

AS FOR THE OTHER REPORTS REGARDING THE DIFFERENT PLANS, ITS PROBABLY DUE TO MISUNDERSTANDINGS AND
OFTEN LANGUAGE BARRIERS.

It was from a diferent named organization then and I was contacted by my resume posted on a national job site. I went to the meeting, had the interview, etc. but they did not know I had a consulting business then that dealt in international investigations and due diligence work for development project matters; so I had many resources to contact (securities & insurance industry, law enforcement, banking & fraud investigators, etc.) to really get the meat on this organization before I invested my monies, time, energy working for them.

Remember, to "work" for UA, you are a "contractor", NOT and "employee"- BIG difference under IRS tax codes and how you will be expected to operate and report your income, pay quarterly tax payments, etc... You will be your own businessman and never does any liability you may cause ever go back to UA or any of their affiliate names or main company in this way...

We investigated them over a year ago, their background, people in charge, and the lawsuits against their top execs for suspicion of fraudulent insurance practices of a public traded company, and when we see names change like they seem to do regularly for subsidiaries of Torchmark, it is termed "building Chinese walls" in the legal realms., because one creates subsidiaries or other subsidiares to throw people off until the actual top tier facts are misconstrued and mired through many levels of subcontractors and you never really know who pulls the strings.

In the end, understand this, UA or any of Torchmark's other subsidiary anmes ARE NOT insurance companies in the normal sense. By this I mean, they are "re-sellers" of some other legally licensed and regulated insurance product provider's merchandise and products such as Mutual of Omaha, etc. They are a middleman and that is all they are, and they try to lure you into thinking you are working for an insurance company which you are not. If you want to work in insurance, my advice is apply properly to direct providers of insurance products as there are many out there (take assesment tests, get real interview, get hired under probation period and on a real base salary, etc. and grow from there as an employee of the actual insurance company itself who provided benefits)- not waste your time with a middleman (3rd party reseller)who re-shops and re-sells already existing priced products of a true insurance company. My God, every bank in America today also is into selling a myriad of various insurnace/inevstment products and have associations to the providers to do so as well.. THIS IS NOTHING NEW...

In close, here again, is copy of my recent new e-mail from United American for FYI to pass on:

Forwarded Message:
Subj: We Are Hiring! Please Respond Now!
Date: 2/4/2006 12:12:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time
From: Mr.Gore@UnitedAmerican.com
To: invest
Sent from the Internet (Details)

Hi, my name is John Gore and I am the Senior Vice President of United American's Branch Office Division. I found your resume online and wanted to contact you. We are now hiring applicants from a wide variety of backgrounds and we believe you are an outstanding match.

We have immediate openings for motivated individuals like you. First year
earnings can range as high as $100,000 for new representatives and management positions are awarded for excellence, regardless of prior
experience. If you are goal-oriented with good communication skills and have a desire to succeed within a company that has a well-known industry reputation for financial stability, quality products and streamlined services, then I would like to speak with you at your earliest convenience.
We are a part of the Torchmark Corporation, a Top Forbes 400 company. We provide full training and a complete set of skills to help you build your earning potential. Bonuses and incentives are also a part of our commitment
to your success.

I look forward to discussing this opportunity with you. If you are interested in learning more about this opportunity, simply CLICK THIS LINK
http://www.joinoursalesteam.com/ThankYouRSL.asp?ConID=16662805&CID=UA&RS=ER1
or call 1-888-228-5858.

Sincerely,

John Gore
Senior Vice President
Branch Office Division
United American

It was from a diferent named organization then and I was contacted by my resume posted on a national job site. I went to the meeting, had the interview, etc. but they did not know I had a consulting business then that dealt in international investigations and due diligence work for development project matters; so I had many resources to contact (securities & insurance industry, law enforcement, banking & fraud investigators, etc.) to really get the meat on this organization before I invested my monies, time, energy working for them.

Remember, to "work" for UA, you are a "contractor", NOT and "employee"- BIG difference under IRS tax codes and how you will be expected to operate and report your income, pay quarterly tax payments, etc... You will be your own businessman and never does any liability you may cause ever go back to UA or any of their affiliate names or main company in this way...

We investigated them over a year ago, their background, people in charge, and the lawsuits against their top execs for suspicion of fraudulent insurance practices of a public traded company, and when we see names change like they seem to do regularly for subsidiaries of Torchmark, it is termed "building Chinese walls" in the legal realms., because one creates subsidiaries or other subsidiares to throw people off until the actual top tier facts are misconstrued and mired through many levels of subcontractors and you never really know who pulls the strings.

In the end, understand this, UA or any of Torchmark's other subsidiary anmes ARE NOT insurance companies in the normal sense. By this I mean, they are "re-sellers" of some other legally licensed and regulated insurance product provider's merchandise and products such as Mutual of Omaha, etc. They are a middleman and that is all they are, and they try to lure you into thinking you are working for an insurance company which you are not. If you want to work in insurance, my advice is apply properly to direct providers of insurance products as there are many out there (take assesment tests, get real interview, get hired under probation period and on a real base salary, etc. and grow from there as an employee of the actual insurance company itself who provided benefits)- not waste your time with a middleman (3rd party reseller)who re-shops and re-sells already existing priced products of a true insurance company. My God, every bank in America today also is into selling a myriad of various insurnace/inevstment products and have associations to the providers to do so as well.. THIS IS NOTHING NEW...

In close, here again, is copy of my recent new e-mail from United American for FYI to pass on:

Forwarded Message:
Subj: We Are Hiring! Please Respond Now!
Date: 2/4/2006 12:12:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time
From: Mr.Gore@UnitedAmerican.com
To: invest
Sent from the Internet (Details)

Hi, my name is John Gore and I am the Senior Vice President of United American's Branch Office Division. I found your resume online and wanted to contact you. We are now hiring applicants from a wide variety of backgrounds and we believe you are an outstanding match.

We have immediate openings for motivated individuals like you. First year
earnings can range as high as $100,000 for new representatives and management positions are awarded for excellence, regardless of prior
experience. If you are goal-oriented with good communication skills and have a desire to succeed within a company that has a well-known industry reputation for financial stability, quality products and streamlined services, then I would like to speak with you at your earliest convenience.
We are a part of the Torchmark Corporation, a Top Forbes 400 company. We provide full training and a complete set of skills to help you build your earning potential. Bonuses and incentives are also a part of our commitment
to your success.

I look forward to discussing this opportunity with you. If you are interested in learning more about this opportunity, simply CLICK THIS LINK
http://www.joinoursalesteam.com/ThankYouRSL.asp?ConID=16662805&CID=UA&RS=ER1
or call 1-888-228-5858.

Sincerely,

John Gore
Senior Vice President
Branch Office Division
United American

It was from a diferent named organization then and I was contacted by my resume posted on a national job site. I went to the meeting, had the interview, etc. but they did not know I had a consulting business then that dealt in international investigations and due diligence work for development project matters; so I had many resources to contact (securities & insurance industry, law enforcement, banking & fraud investigators, etc.) to really get the meat on this organization before I invested my monies, time, energy working for them.

Remember, to "work" for UA, you are a "contractor", NOT and "employee"- BIG difference under IRS tax codes and how you will be expected to operate and report your income, pay quarterly tax payments, etc... You will be your own businessman and never does any liability you may cause ever go back to UA or any of their affiliate names or main company in this way...

We investigated them over a year ago, their background, people in charge, and the lawsuits against their top execs for suspicion of fraudulent insurance practices of a public traded company, and when we see names change like they seem to do regularly for subsidiaries of Torchmark, it is termed "building Chinese walls" in the legal realms., because one creates subsidiaries or other subsidiares to throw people off until the actual top tier facts are misconstrued and mired through many levels of subcontractors and you never really know who pulls the strings.

In the end, understand this, UA or any of Torchmark's other subsidiary anmes ARE NOT insurance companies in the normal sense. By this I mean, they are "re-sellers" of some other legally licensed and regulated insurance product provider's merchandise and products such as Mutual of Omaha, etc. They are a middleman and that is all they are, and they try to lure you into thinking you are working for an insurance company which you are not. If you want to work in insurance, my advice is apply properly to direct providers of insurance products as there are many out there (take assesment tests, get real interview, get hired under probation period and on a real base salary, etc. and grow from there as an employee of the actual insurance company itself who provided benefits)- not waste your time with a middleman (3rd party reseller)who re-shops and re-sells already existing priced products of a true insurance company. My God, every bank in America today also is into selling a myriad of various insurnace/inevstment products and have associations to the providers to do so as well.. THIS IS NOTHING NEW...

In close, here again, is copy of my recent new e-mail from United American for FYI to pass on:

Forwarded Message:
Subj: We Are Hiring! Please Respond Now!
Date: 2/4/2006 12:12:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time
From: Mr.Gore@UnitedAmerican.com
To: invest
Sent from the Internet (Details)

Hi, my name is John Gore and I am the Senior Vice President of United American's Branch Office Division. I found your resume online and wanted to contact you. We are now hiring applicants from a wide variety of backgrounds and we believe you are an outstanding match.

We have immediate openings for motivated individuals like you. First year
earnings can range as high as $100,000 for new representatives and management positions are awarded for excellence, regardless of prior
experience. If you are goal-oriented with good communication skills and have a desire to succeed within a company that has a well-known industry reputation for financial stability, quality products and streamlined services, then I would like to speak with you at your earliest convenience.
We are a part of the Torchmark Corporation, a Top Forbes 400 company. We provide full training and a complete set of skills to help you build your earning potential. Bonuses and incentives are also a part of our commitment
to your success.

I look forward to discussing this opportunity with you. If you are interested in learning more about this opportunity, simply CLICK THIS LINK
http://www.joinoursalesteam.com/ThankYouRSL.asp?ConID=16662805&CID=UA&RS=ER1
or call 1-888-228-5858.

Sincerely,

John Gore
Senior Vice President
Branch Office Division
United American