AT&T Wireless Unlimited mobile to mobile really isn't!!!! Atlanta Georgia

So I was looking over my AT&T bill this morning and to my surprise I am in the same boat as the OP. I landed here after googling "how do AT&T M2M minutes work".

I agree with the OP that UNLIMITED should mean just that w/o any stipulations.

By the time I got to the near end of this thread I was wondering what if...

...you "burn" through your N&W min (by calling M2M or non AT&T people), then go through your DT minutes and say you have any Rollover min left(or go throught them too). If you now place a call to an AT&T customer during the N&W, what happens? It appears you would be charged overage?! 5450 min should be for non AT&T customers. I also wonder how the Unity plan holds up with all this?

Now I have the $39.99 plan (450 anytime 500 N&W "unlimited" M2M) and I have never burned through them BUT the principle is that UNLIMITED is UNLIMITED the definiton says so. M2M should reflect 0 minute usage 24/7 365!

I'm sure some people where thinking "well why doesn't he change his plan to the $59.99 which includes unlimited N&W? My thought is that some people don't use their phone during the daytime for various reasons and therefore do not need that many DT minutes, which holds true for me. I for instance have 3500 Rollover minutes because I am either M2M or just don't talk that much during the day, so I see no reason or benefit for me to upgrade my plan. I do however talk alot during the night time hours (work 11-7) with my bff who is M2M with me. This month alone, only 8 days into my new billing cycle I have used 1000 N&W minutes though talking to her =0/.

With that said AT&T is falsely advertising, unlimited M2M does not hold true to it's definition!

This subject could go on and on and on with various viewp points so I will bring this to an end. I was bored @ work and wanted to put my 2 cents in :D.

P.S. Any classaction Lawsuite, I'm in!

I work for ATT....the reason why you may have been charged for M2M is because alot of the plans aren't updated. Many "grandfather" plans dont include M2M or Nights and weekends. Also just to let you know....the actual feature of Mobile2Mobile can be individually removed from your rate plan therefore charging you regardless of who you call. You might wanna go over your entire rate plan and the features that are included as well as the ones youre signed up for.

Trust me I see your point about the min being charged against the Night & Weekends. However, if this isn't causing an overage, whats the difference. Besides only the lowest package has 5000 nights & weekends, all the others have unlimited nights & weekends.

If you think about i,t AT&T has put some thought into the way they package their plans. If you have a plan that has the lowest number of minutes (450) why would the company want to give you more than 5000 night & weekend minutes. You probably wouldn't use them all anyway and this keeps the cost of the plan down. If you go up to the next level (900 minutes) you would have unlimited nights & weekend minutes. Then it wouldn't matter whether they billed them as M2M or NW.

Marilyn,

I don't think you understand what's being said. She is reading the bill right but this is what it's saying...

If I make a m2m call to someone on at&t and its during nights and weekend hours, my nights and weekend hours are being charged. This shouldn't be the case because my m2m is supposed to be unlimited.

That being said... it may be tough to use all 5000 min like you said... but.. not when your 5000 min are being used for both your nights and weekends to non at&t phones and also to at&t customers that are supposed to be free.

I hope that cleared up the point the original poster was trying to make.

Just to make one more point I'll use myself as an example. The other night I called my father who is an AT&T wireless customer (and so am I) and talked for a few minutes. The next day I checked my usage summary and sure enough my nights and weekend minutes had been used to make that call. Now the way I see it that call shouldn't have used any min because it was to another AT&T wireless user. (Right)

Apparently there is some confusion on reading the bill. Being an AT&T wireless customer for many years and having to decipher the bill for business reasons I learned what all the codes mean.

First, the way AT&T bills phone calls is; they look to see if the call is night/weekends first. 9PM to 6AM Monday through Friday. and 9PM Friday to 6AM Monday. On the bill is is coded as OP (off peak). Day time minutes is coded DT. If the call is coded DT then it looks to see if it is Mobile to Mobile, which is indicated in the Feature column as M2M. Therefore, any of these minutes do not go against your 450 Any Time minutes.

Keep in mind, a M2M call is only other AT&T mobile phones, not land lines or anything else. There is also a section before the list of calls that called Usage Charge Details which gives you a total of each type of minutes used, including how many Any Time minutes you went over if any.

Now the odds of someone going over the 5000 nights and weekend minutes is slim. Think about it, that is 83.33 hours of calling. There is approximately 372 hours of total time in the Nights and Weekends in a month. If you are on the phone for 1/4 of that time you may go over but the M2M time would still not be charged. If you find that you are being charged for M2M against you Any Time minutes then a call to the company would be warranted and have them check and see if there is a problem with the billing. I had to do this once and they were able to determine that one M2M number being called was not being recognized by the system as M2M and they corrected my bill.

Talk about "Unlimited" not being unlimited. I just received my AT&T bill and found that they charged minutes of when my wife called me or I called my wife, under the same plan.

I was confused about the charges so I called the customer service and found that regardless of when I talk to my wife, on her AT&T phone and my AT&T phone (under the same plan), all minutes are deducted from the plans minutes. If we talked in the morning I lost minutes, afternoon I lost minutes and evening (up until 9pm) I lost minutes. If we talk on the weekends, at anytime, I lost minutes.

I also noticed that if I talked to other AT&T phones outside my plan, such as my sister-in-law (local area) and friend (three states away) they charge minutes under the ESM1 (Unlimited Expd M2M) rate code with a zero amount charged. This begs the question of; which minute's category do they come out of?

I am very disgusted with all this and would be willing to take part in a lawsuit over this. The term "unlimited" should never be found on the billing statement under these conditions. It's a contradiction.

It would be like saying, "Unlimited slices of pizza" and as your family is sitting there eating the slices of pizza the clerk is standing at the register ringing up each slice as they are consumed. LOL!!!! I can't believe this!

Is the AT&T marketing department located on another planet that has the same words as we do but with different definitions? Can they really get away with saying unlimited mobile to mobile calls and still subtract them from your minutes?

The representative was fine and polite and offered me 200 free minutes but I declined. My thoughts were that didn't make any sense by giving me 200 free minutes but charged me for the ones they say were free in the first place. That's like taking $100 from you and then saying, "Oh, sorry! Here's $20 for free for your inconvenience."

If there are enough consumers that decide to do a lawsuit on this let me know and I will participate.

Thanks!
Terry

you are all correct about unlimited m2m not being truly unlimited. I agree it is stupid but the company is aware of this issue..It is pretty much a situation in which they hope you will decide to upgrade to the 59.99 900 min plan with unlimited nights and weekends. If anyone has any questions about this particular company please contact me and i will be more than happy to fill you in or let you know how to resolve your situation.

He is absolutely right about this M2M "unlimited" thing!

I have the iPhone lowest rate plan possible at 39.99 for just the plan-- (not data or texts).

And I have "unlimited M2M" and 5000 N&W minutes and 450 anytime minutes.

And My Girlfriend has At&t too and we got this service because of the "unlimited M2M" and now we are both extremely upset that if we talk after "AT&T's daytime" is over, then At&T starts sucking and eating through our 5000 N&W minutes, even though we are both M2M!!

This is misleading and false advertising and we need to get a class-action suit going ASAP!!!

Russell S
Orlando, FL

if you have a 450 minute plan with unlimited mobile to mobile and 5000 night and weekend minutes this means that if you make a call during regular daytime hours and the call is another at&t wireless customer the call will show up as mobile to mobile -- if the call is made after regular daytime hours it will show up and night and weekend...if you end up using all of your night and weekend minutes then it is possible that you would be billed for calls (made during night and weekend hours) at the per minute rate...but still any calls made during daytime hours will still show up as mobile to mobile.

Here's what I am talking about, Michael.

Daytime calls to XXX-XXX-XXXX listed as M2MCNG under the feature column.

Nite & Weekend calls to the exact same number does not list on bill as M2MCNG (lists nothing under the feature column) and charges against the N&W minutes (subtracts them from the plan).

I am looking at it online as I type.

So, according to my bill, if I call M2M during daytime hours, no minutes are subtracted from the plan. If I call that same M2M on N&W times, it is not listed as M2M and subtracts from my 5000 N&W minutes.

It works like this according to my current bill:

450 anytime minus 100 M2M leaves 450 anytime remaining
5000 N&W minus 250 M2M leaves 4,750 N&W minutes.

It's right there on my bill.

And this is not great for some people because if they use all N&W on M2M calls then call a non-M2M, they will get charged for those minutes (either from anytime or additional charges).

Also, I reviewed a friend's bill last week with a lower plan (the 29.95 one) and she actually got charged for M2M as she had run out of both anytime and N&W for that month. And those charges (almost doubled the bill) were mostly for M2M calls to another AT&T customer.

Thanks for the responses, below is what I have to date on my current bill.

A summary of your shared minute usage.
SHARED MINUTES
USAGE TYPE INCLUDED USED REMAINING
Anytime 850 418 432

Nights & Weekends Unlimited 386 Unlimited
Mobile to Mobile Unlimited 177 Unlimited

Does this clarify things? I am not simply not seeing where M2M gets deducted from the N&W.

I have never tapped all 5000 N&W minutes so have never seen what happens M2M after those are used. If they don't go against anytime mins after that then that is ok except if someone uses M2M on all 5000 then makes a non-M2M N&W call are they charged against the anytime for that? I suspect that is the case.

I think the point is that unlimited M2M should not count against ANY of the plan minutes, anytime, rollover or night and weekend. If someone is using a lot of M2M on N&W times, they could go through all of the N&W minutes, which is not what is advertised.

Unlimited M2M should not charge against any of my other minutes so that I can use those for other calls. If you look at your bill and have made M2M on N&W hours, you will see a deduction on your night and weekend minutes for the M2M call.

Michael, they are charging my 5,000 night/weekend minutes for m2m made during those times...not my anytime unless I use all 5,000. I am reading my bill correctly. But I do appreciate your trying to help.

I just looked at my current bill online w/minutes used and the mobile to mobile minutes did not cut into the 850 anytime minutes my wife and I have. Something tells me you are not reading your bill that close. Do you have copies of all of your statements? If not, check online, it goes back quite a ways.

My plan is nationwide. And yes, they're ripping me off. I have a printout of one of their web pages that clearly states "TALK TO OVER 65 MILLION AT&T CUSTOMERS WITHOUT USING YOUR MINUTES". Not without using any of my daytime minutes. Once I use my 5,000 night/weekend minutes I won't pay for m2m. But if I make a non-m2m during night/weekend minutes after they've exhausted them for "unlimited m2m calls", they will use my anytime minutes. It's a total scam.

I just told them that if I was ever charged for a m2m minutes or night/weekend call because they burned through those minutes unfairly I'd be contacting a lawyer and left it at that. But I would no longer recommend AT&T for this exact reason. Unlimited m2m should mean unlimited m2m. Not just during the day. Does anyone out there see where I'm wrong in this?

I have the 450 anytime w/rollover, 5000 nite & weekend with nationwide calling. If I use m2m, it goes like this:

daytime - m2m no minutes deducted
n&w - m2m charges against the 5000 minutes

So, on my bill if I m2m on anytime minutes during day calls, no minutes are subtracted. If I call m2m after 7 PM, m2m charges against the 5000 nite and weekend minutes.

Technically, shouldn't unlimited m2m mean no charges against ANY of the minutes under the plan? I think that is exactly what the OP is saying and I agree.

Let's say I actually call beyond my 5000 n&w minutes all m2m - where to they go next if I call m2m again at 10 PM? Do they start m2m against my anytime minutes or are these calls free? I bet they start charging against the anytime. Also, if they are charging against n&w minutes for m2m, if I use them up I will get hit in anytime minutes for any non-m2m evening calls I make.

I think that may be the underlying problem. For example, my wife and I (then g/f) got AT&T phones back in 2005, and we got 850 anytime minutes, unlimited night and weekend, but our plan is also nationwide. We pay $59.99 for one line, and $9.99 for the other line (BTW - I don't believe this plan exists anymore, at least not at these prices/minutes). We have never had a problem calling each other for free day or night. The way the bill is broken out, it shows daytime, m2m, and night/weekend. I know once our anytime minutes run out, it goes into rollover.

I could be wrong, but based on what you said, that may be issue. Do you have a local or regional plan?

Verizon (as an example) unlimited means just that and the bill shows it. No minutes are stolen from anywhere else. You are getting screwed.

To see how this is resolved. I have noticed exactly the same thing with my cingular/at&t wireless plan.

It does say unlimited m2m calls, however if you make them after day hours, you get charged the minutes against your night and weekend minutes, but if you do it during the day they don't charge them against your anytime minutes.

I guess someone must have figured that with so many night and weekend minutes, no one would go over on them. My plan has 5000 with 450 anytime, so I would need to do a lot of m2m to bite into that 5000.

I'll be watching this thread to see what they have to say. I agree m2m should be as advertised, unlimited even if you use 10,000 a month.

Here's the email AT&T sent me and my angry response. Can someone please tell me where I'm wrong? I'd appreciate it before I pursue legal action. Thanks.

Dear Terri,

Sorry but this explanation is unacceptable. Unlimited free mobile to mobile calling should mean just that...unlimited! And your "minutes in your rate plan are consumed in the following order" is also garbage. Are you saying if I make a daytime call to a non-AT&T subscriber that you will charge my night/weekend minutes before my anytime minutes? No, I don't think so. Or are you punishing me for not getting the plan with the unlimited night/weekend minutes? Yes, I DO think so. The statement of how minutes are consumed is irrelevant since unlimited means NO LIMIT. How can something with no limit have a limit? I firmly believe that AT&T is attempting to perpetrate a deceptive practice against me and I do not intend to take it lying down. I've attached the definition of the word unlimited below for your legal team:

unlimited /?n'l?m?t?d/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled
Pronunciation[uhn-lim-i-tid] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
-adjective
1. not limited; unrestricted; unconfined: unlimited trade.
2. boundless; infinite; vast: the unlimited skies.
3. without any qualification or exception; unconditional.


And please take extra notice of #3. Without qualification or exception; unconditional! That means you can't attach a condition to it which is exactly what AT&T is doing.

I suggest that you take this to a higher authority and either provide me with an explanation that adds up (yours most definitely doesn't) or change the way my plan is administered. Otherwise, I will probably seek legal advise. I have never done that before but no intelligent person would infer that the paragraph you are quoting is stating or even implying that my unlimited (see definition above) mobile to mobile limits would, in any way, have limits.

To recap using AT&T's logic. If I make a daytime call to someone not on my network, my night/weekend minutes will be deducted first. After those have been exhausted I will use my mobile to mobile minutes. And since they are unlimited, I will never be charged my anytime or rollover minutes. Correct?

For the record, I understand that you are just doing your job. I know you don't own AT&T nor do you set their policies. So I am not intending to attack you personally. But I refuse to be taken advantage of. I look forward to your response.

Sincerely,

George Powell


Dear Mr. Powell,

Thank you for taking the time to e-mail AT&T in regards to your mobile to mobile minutes being good during daytime hours only and that there is nothing about this information on the plan details or terms and conditions. I am happy to help you with your inquiry and I apologize that you feel that you are being taken advantage of.

All calls you make and receive within the calling area defined by your rate plan will pull from the appropriate set of minutes. The minutes in your rate plan are consumed in the following order:
Night and Weekend minutes
Mobile-to-Mobile minutes
Anytime minutes
Accumulated Rollover balance

If you exceed the number of package minutes included within your included Anytime minutes, you will be charged a per-minute airtime rate of $0.45 for all additional calls made and received during that period for the remainder of the billing cycle. If you exceed the number of package minutes included within your rate plan's Night & Weekend hours, additional calls made and received during that period will pull from remaining Anytime minutes until all included package minutes are used. When all included package minutes have been used, you will be charged a per-minute airtime rate of $0.45 for all additional calls made and received for the remainder of the billing cycle.

As stated on our website detailing our plans "Please carefully review the Plan Terms, which explain the limitations of your service". TERMS APPLICABLE TO NATION GSM PLANS:
Minute Increment Billing and Usage: Airtime and other measured usage are billed in full-minute increments, and actual airtime and usage are rounded up to the next full increment at the end of each call for billing purposes. AT&T charges a full-minute increment of usage for every fraction of the last minute used on each wireless call. Minutes will be depleted according to usage in the following order: Night and Weekend Minutes, Mobile to Mobile Minutes, Anytime Minutes and Rollover Minutes . Calls placed on networks served by other carriers may take longer to be processed, and billing for these calls may be delayed.
Those minutes will be applied against your Anytime monthly minutes in the month in which the calls appear on your bill. Unanswered outgoing calls of 30 seconds or longer incur airtime. You may obtain usage information by calling customer service or using one of our automated systems.

Please visit our website at http://www.att.com/wireless for the latest
pricing plans, phones and promotions.

If we can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us via email. We know you have a choice in the wireless industry and thank you for choosing AT&T!

Sincerely,

Terri Blevins
AT&T
Online Customer Care Professional

I'm a customer of Cingular/AT&T as well, and for years now.
I'm surprised you're having trouble with representatives.
They're usually pretty helpful... but then again I haven't really needed to call for anything since they've completely merged in AT&T.

A lot of my friends and have AT&T as well and I'm up pretty much all night, therefore I do use the phone after the day time hours.
I haven't had any problem with the Mobile to Mobile option.
You're actually the first I've heard this from.

Here are my responses to what I think could potentially be the issue. Hopefully I help.

Is you're friend local? If not, you may not have 'Roaming' included in your plan.

Have you checked your agreement to make sure unlimited Mobile to Mobile is in fact included in your plan?

Good luck.



Below is taken from the Answer Center on the AT&T Support page.


QUESTION:
What is Unlimited Mobile to Mobile calling?
ANSWER:

Unlimited Mobile to Mobile (M2M) allows you to make unlimited calls to and from any other AT&T wireless services customer when making calls within your rate plan's calling area.

Using Mobile to Mobile:

Mobile to Mobile minutes may be used when you directly dial or receive a call from another wireless AT&T phone number from within your calling area.


Troubleshooting Mobile to Mobile:

If you believe that you were incorrectly charged for a Mobile to Mobile call, check to see if that call was made or received within your rate plan's calling area.




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