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Report: #741678

Complaint Review: Western Governors University - Salt Lake City Utah

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  • Reported By: anonymous — United States of America
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  • Western Governors University Salt Lake City, Utah United States of America

Western Governors University WGU Inadequate Math Program Passes on Burden of Defects to Students Salt Lake City, Utah

*General Comment: Excellent Experience at WGU

*Author of original report: Response to WGU response

*UPDATE Employee: Math Education Programs at Western Governors University

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The manager of WGU's math program does not appear to have significant background in math.  This would not be an issue, except the program is highly flawed and unresponsive to criticism.

You complete math courses at WGU by passing tests with a C and passing essay assignments with an A.  Some of the essay assignments are incoherently assigned.  Despite my prudent, early attempts to obtain clarification, I spent tens of hours inefficiently clarifying the directions of an essay rather than directly executing on the obscure grading criteria.  This is hours of my time wasted needlessly by no misconduct of myself.  Additionally, every time I tried to get further clarification, or assert my entitlement to such clarity, I ran the risk of being labeled unprofessional for daring to question the effectiveness of the original essay prompt.

I previously gained entry to a university among a pool of applicants with sub-10% acceptance rate.  I know what is reasonable in terms of mathematics curriculum and grading.  WGU has the unique position of being easier and harder at the same time.  WGU is easier in terms of math content, but harder overall, because (some of) the essays are so incoherently assigned.  Perhaps this has something to do with mathematically illiterate management.  Perhaps not.  All I know is, WGU is passing off the difficulty of its essays as a signal of the merits of its program.  In reality, the difficulty of these essays has nothing to do with math.  It is sheer human incompetence.

I would still sign up with WGU because let's face it, it's a pretty good deal for your money.  But, the math program is demonstrably a scam.  Which means going into it, if you are already pretty good at math, be prepared to have your time wasted, and be prepared to be talked down to, because due to the rarity of people who know how to do math, there is a centralization of power in their program, and this is abused.  For example, I had a "professor" ask me to send him daily reminder emails to do his job.  You would think with his quantitative aptitude he could figure out how to set daily reminders for himself?  Or, you would think that basic social intelligence would say that you don't insult another person by directing him to function in the same capacity as a hotel service desk providing a daily wake up call.

WGU's main premise is that it empowers a student to be independent of the school.  The students attain competency at their own pace, and the school provides the students the means of demonstrating it.  WGU's math program fails at this main premise because it wastes student time with incoherent assignments.  If a student fails this assignment enough times, the student will be dropped from the entire WGU program, by the way.  WGU has a fundamental obligation to provide coherent assignments, because this is an expectation WGU sets when selling its program.  By failing to meet the expectation that it sets, WGU is a ripoff.  But, it's still a pretty good deal.  People who pride themselves on being treated with respect, beware.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 06/16/2011 02:31 PM and is a permanent record located here: https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/western-governors-university/salt-lake-city-utah-/western-governors-university-wgu-inadequate-math-program-passes-on-burden-of-defects-to-s-741678. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year. Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report. READ: Foreign websites steal our content

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
1Author
2Consumer
0Employee/Owner

#3 General Comment

Excellent Experience at WGU

AUTHOR: math teacher - (United States of America)

POSTED: Thursday, January 05, 2012

I obviously cannot speak to this person's experience, but I can say without any reservation that I could not be more pleased with my experience at WGU.  I am just about to graduate with my BA in mathematics (5-12).  Let me explain why I am so pelased:

1)  I live in California, which requires the CSET, the subject certification test for teachers.  To teach high school math you must pass all three sections of the CSET mathematics test (math subtests I, II, and III).  Approximately 1 out of 3 people passes these tests the first time they take them.  I passed all three on my first try.  I took all my math classes at WGU.  The CSET is widely regarded as the most difficult certification test.  I have also taken the Praxis II 061 math content test, which is the test used by about 20 other states.  It is a joke compared to the CSET.  Obviously WGU's coursework prepared me to pass these tests.

2)  I found the instructions on the written assignments to be anything but confusing.  They were very precise.  Likewise, the comments I received from the graders were very specific.  I never had any questions about what was required. 

3)  I did not always agree with the comments on my assignments, but that is true whether you are taking classes online or in person.  Give me a break.  The important thing is I always knew what the evaluator wanted.

4)  I never felt there was a lot of "busy work".  That is the point of this program - if you already know the material, skip the reading and practice problems.  You don't have to turn that in.  As for the assignments that are turned in for evaluation, if you know the material, then do the assignments and turn them in, then get credit for the class.  If you want credit for doing nothing, go to a diploma mill.  The idea here is to demonstrate your competence.  If you can't do that yet, read the assignments, watch the videos, do the practice problems, talk to the course mentor, etc.  If you can, get it done and move on.

5)  I worked with three content mentors, the ones who are the subject matter experts. I never had to wait for a response and I never had a question they could not answer.  I worked with three personal mentors, the ones who guide you through the program, kind of like a guidance counselor.  They were all great.

6)  I never had any problems with the financial aid department.  I have heard some stories of disorganization and confusion.  They may have been understaffed at one point.  I never had a problem.

7)  I have a friend who got her degree from UOP.  She spent more in one year than I spent in three years.  She is over $40k in debt.  I have a coworker who spent the same amount of money in 18 months to get her AA (also UOP) as I did to get a BA.

In summary, I have nothing bad to say about WGU.  I have and will continue to recommend it highly to anyone I know who is looking for a degree.

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#2 Author of original report

Response to WGU response

AUTHOR: anonymous - (United States of America)

POSTED: Friday, June 17, 2011

As I alluded to in my report, I would count myself among the students satisfied by WGU.  So WGU's internally generated approval ratings, even if accurate, do not negate my assertions.

 
There is not a problem with the nature of the essay assignment.  While it is easier than the assignments I saw at a normal university, it is good enough to prepare a math teacher, and in a sense better than typical math curriculum in this regard.  The problem with the math essay assignment is it does not clearly state what kind of essay the WGU student is expected to prepare.  A student with all the math knowledge and writing skills in the world would have trouble ascertaining the directions of the essay from the prompt.  This is a problem which has been acknowledged by WGU employees.  This includes a WGU student mentor with a degree in engineering who has taught math.  It also includes a math content mentor with a senior role.
 
I have not significantly required assistance from my subject matter expert in understanding material or composing essays.  I came to WGU because I am independently competent and simply need someone to audit my skills and hand me a credential.  My subject matter expert has served me by clarifying performance assessment grading criteria.  The grading criteria is not clear from the assignment.  From direct experience I saw that many other students also utilize the content mentors not to learn math, but to clarify WGU's clumsy curriculum.
 
WGU simply has not  been responsive to feedback.  WGU has also reacted punitively to my concerns by questioning my professional disposition.  I work in a school so I have a pretty good idea of professional disposition.  The disrespect WGU infers from me is that of a customer who has purchased a defective product/service.
 
I am referring to a program manager with a political science degree and an education degree who has consistently acted in a managerial role in the mathematics department in my personal experience.  I am equally mystified as to why a more mathematically grounded individual has not handled my situation.

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#1 UPDATE Employee

Math Education Programs at Western Governors University

AUTHOR: Western Governors University - (United States of America)

POSTED: Friday, June 17, 2011

Western Governors University has developed online mathematics programs of high quality and we work continuously to modify and improve the courses and programs. WGU currently has over 1,200 students enrolled in our mathematics programs, and our most recent student survey shows that 93% of those students are satisfied or very satisfied with their WGU experience; 96% responded that they are satisfied with their studies at WGU.
 
WGUs mathematics programs are designed to prepare future mathematics teachers.  Thus, not only are students required to demonstrate their knowledge and conceptual understanding of mathematics, they need to also demonstrate their ability to design clear, coherent, effective lesson plans designed to teach mathematics topics.
 
The WGU mathematics programs include a full range of mathematics content, from Finite Mathematics to Abstract Algebra. All course of study work is entirely online. Each course is developed through an intense development process that includes reviews by mathematicians, educators, and various experts in assessment development,  all of whom hold terminal degrees. Every one of WGUs mathematics programs is nationally recognized by NCTM, which is a tribute to the quality and rigor of the mathematics content and pedagogy within these programs. WGU makes Subject Matter Experts (all of whom have earned advanced degrees in mathematics or related fields) available to students who seek additional one-on-one academic help.  However, while these Subject Matter Experts are available to help in the learning process and with clarification on performance assessments, they do not provide assistance completing and passing such assessments. The most recent student survey shows that 96% of mathematics program students are satisfied or very satisfied with the help provided by their course mentor (subject matter expert).
 
WGU is uniquely positioned to use student feedback and assessment data to continuously improve our courses and programs. Because students start our courses and programs on a monthly basis we can react to student feedback and monitor the results in a relatively short timeframe. In the mathematics department, we take student feedback seriously and pride ourselves in responding to such feedback quickly and completely. We also proactively complete course and assessment reviews regularly and make adjustments as necessary.
 
We are mystified by the comment made by  the original poster regarding the manager of WGUs mathematics programs not possessing a significant math background.  That is a demonstrably false accusation.  The Product Manager for the WGU Mathematics and Science programs has not only a mathematics major in his background, but also has a secondary mathematics and physics teaching license, along with an MS in Computer Science. The Senior Product Manager possesses a doctoral degree in Mathematics Education. 

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