Countrywide Home Loans ripoff inaccurate appraisal, attempts to force refinance with a second mortgage, with payments $200more per mo., credit damage, time-consuming Dallas Texas

Regarding the comment from another appraiser, it is very easy for you to look at what has been proven to be notorious deceptive business practices by Countrywide in particular. This is not my opinion it has been proven in court by the Attorney General and many lower courts now. Here is my story. In 2003, my husband and I needed to refinance out of our first time home owner loan that was about to adjust. We shopped around and found the best loan with a broker with Countrywide. We had excellent credit, low debt, no money out. We were to have a fixed 30 year loan @ 5% and minimal fees which included a $450 appraisal that they arrange for me. I knew that was high but because we were preapproved and this was a very good loan from a well known company I agreed. Houses in my neighborhood at the time were about $400,000 and rising, my loan was for $200,000 I felt comfortable. We had recently replaced floors, painted, and wood shutters.
The day we went to sign we learned that our house appraised for $265,000 and with little equity we did not qualify for our original loan agreement, but for a 6.75% very high at the time for fixed. We were directed towards our best option which was a 3 yr. ARM @5.85% with prepayment penalty or we could walk way out our appraisal fee, they explained that the appraisal was not connected to Countrywide and there was nothing they could do about it. We tried to negotiate, but we were assured that this was still a good loan, we were thinking about moving in a few years or worst case if we refinanced with them they would waive the prepayment penalty.
Needless to say, I tried for 3 years to refinance, again they promised me everything, but because I insisted on something in writing because the last loan cost $18000 and the prepayment was another $10000. Once I even had a broker tell me I deserved to have my loan adjust because I was too stupid to see how screwed I would be when it adjusted. True, it did happen. But, I did not want to pay for another appraisal without what they were promising in writing. Five years later, I am still here. I have been preapproved twice for loan modification.

May 08-preapproved, paperwork done
Skip June payment per their agreement
July payment made
July 31 letter sent denied incomplete docs
August paid
September paid -new agreement, it was there error
Skip October per their agreement
November paid
Letter November 25 denied again
Now they want past due payment right before Christmas

I spoke with HOPE specialist today. This is typical. They are modifying very few loans and this was in the news, not my opinion. Now that I have an advocate I am finally getting somewhere. 40 yr fixed @5% and reduction in principal and not having to add those payments to my loan. The service is free to consumers because lenders were not handling business fairly.

Regarding the comment from another appraiser, it is very easy for you to look at what has been proven to be notorious deceptive business practices by Countrywide in particular. This is not my opinion it has been proven in court by the Attorney General and many lower courts now. Here is my story. In 2003, my husband and I needed to refinance out of our first time home owner loan that was about to adjust. We shopped around and found the best loan with a broker with Countrywide. We had excellent credit, low debt, no money out. We were to have a fixed 30 year loan @ 5% and minimal fees which included a $450 appraisal that they arrange for me. I knew that was high but because we were preapproved and this was a very good loan from a well known company I agreed. Houses in my neighborhood at the time were about $400,000 and rising, my loan was for $200,000 I felt comfortable. We had recently replaced floors, painted, and wood shutters.
The day we went to sign we learned that our house appraised for $265,000 and with little equity we did not qualify for our original loan agreement, but for a 6.75% very high at the time for fixed. We were directed towards our best option which was a 3 yr. ARM @5.85% with prepayment penalty or we could walk way out our appraisal fee, they explained that the appraisal was not connected to Countrywide and there was nothing they could do about it. We tried to negotiate, but we were assured that this was still a good loan, we were thinking about moving in a few years or worst case if we refinanced with them they would waive the prepayment penalty.
Needless to say, I tried for 3 years to refinance, again they promised me everything, but because I insisted on something in writing because the last loan cost $18000 and the prepayment was another $10000. Once I even had a broker tell me I deserved to have my loan adjust because I was too stupid to see how screwed I would be when it adjusted. True, it did happen. But, I did not want to pay for another appraisal without what they were promising in writing. Five years later, I am still here. I have been preapproved twice for loan modification.

May 08-preapproved, paperwork done
Skip June payment per their agreement
July payment made
July 31 letter sent denied incomplete docs
August paid
September paid -new agreement, it was there error
Skip October per their agreement
November paid
Letter November 25 denied again
Now they want past due payment right before Christmas

I spoke with HOPE specialist today. This is typical. They are modifying very few loans and this was in the news, not my opinion. Now that I have an advocate I am finally getting somewhere. 40 yr fixed @5% and reduction in principal and not having to add those payments to my loan. The service is free to consumers because lenders were not handling business fairly.

Regarding the comment from another appraiser, it is very easy for you to look at what has been proven to be notorious deceptive business practices by Countrywide in particular. This is not my opinion it has been proven in court by the Attorney General and many lower courts now. Here is my story. In 2003, my husband and I needed to refinance out of our first time home owner loan that was about to adjust. We shopped around and found the best loan with a broker with Countrywide. We had excellent credit, low debt, no money out. We were to have a fixed 30 year loan @ 5% and minimal fees which included a $450 appraisal that they arrange for me. I knew that was high but because we were preapproved and this was a very good loan from a well known company I agreed. Houses in my neighborhood at the time were about $400,000 and rising, my loan was for $200,000 I felt comfortable. We had recently replaced floors, painted, and wood shutters.
The day we went to sign we learned that our house appraised for $265,000 and with little equity we did not qualify for our original loan agreement, but for a 6.75% very high at the time for fixed. We were directed towards our best option which was a 3 yr. ARM @5.85% with prepayment penalty or we could walk way out our appraisal fee, they explained that the appraisal was not connected to Countrywide and there was nothing they could do about it. We tried to negotiate, but we were assured that this was still a good loan, we were thinking about moving in a few years or worst case if we refinanced with them they would waive the prepayment penalty.
Needless to say, I tried for 3 years to refinance, again they promised me everything, but because I insisted on something in writing because the last loan cost $18000 and the prepayment was another $10000. Once I even had a broker tell me I deserved to have my loan adjust because I was too stupid to see how screwed I would be when it adjusted. True, it did happen. But, I did not want to pay for another appraisal without what they were promising in writing. Five years later, I am still here. I have been preapproved twice for loan modification.

May 08-preapproved, paperwork done
Skip June payment per their agreement
July payment made
July 31 letter sent denied incomplete docs
August paid
September paid -new agreement, it was there error
Skip October per their agreement
November paid
Letter November 25 denied again
Now they want past due payment right before Christmas

I spoke with HOPE specialist today. This is typical. They are modifying very few loans and this was in the news, not my opinion. Now that I have an advocate I am finally getting somewhere. 40 yr fixed @5% and reduction in principal and not having to add those payments to my loan. The service is free to consumers because lenders were not handling business fairly.

Regarding the comment from another appraiser, it is very easy for you to look at what has been proven to be notorious deceptive business practices by Countrywide in particular. This is not my opinion it has been proven in court by the Attorney General and many lower courts now. Here is my story. In 2003, my husband and I needed to refinance out of our first time home owner loan that was about to adjust. We shopped around and found the best loan with a broker with Countrywide. We had excellent credit, low debt, no money out. We were to have a fixed 30 year loan @ 5% and minimal fees which included a $450 appraisal that they arrange for me. I knew that was high but because we were preapproved and this was a very good loan from a well known company I agreed. Houses in my neighborhood at the time were about $400,000 and rising, my loan was for $200,000 I felt comfortable. We had recently replaced floors, painted, and wood shutters.
The day we went to sign we learned that our house appraised for $265,000 and with little equity we did not qualify for our original loan agreement, but for a 6.75% very high at the time for fixed. We were directed towards our best option which was a 3 yr. ARM @5.85% with prepayment penalty or we could walk way out our appraisal fee, they explained that the appraisal was not connected to Countrywide and there was nothing they could do about it. We tried to negotiate, but we were assured that this was still a good loan, we were thinking about moving in a few years or worst case if we refinanced with them they would waive the prepayment penalty.
Needless to say, I tried for 3 years to refinance, again they promised me everything, but because I insisted on something in writing because the last loan cost $18000 and the prepayment was another $10000. Once I even had a broker tell me I deserved to have my loan adjust because I was too stupid to see how screwed I would be when it adjusted. True, it did happen. But, I did not want to pay for another appraisal without what they were promising in writing. Five years later, I am still here. I have been preapproved twice for loan modification.

May 08-preapproved, paperwork done
Skip June payment per their agreement
July payment made
July 31 letter sent denied incomplete docs
August paid
September paid -new agreement, it was there error
Skip October per their agreement
November paid
Letter November 25 denied again
Now they want past due payment right before Christmas

I spoke with HOPE specialist today. This is typical. They are modifying very few loans and this was in the news, not my opinion. Now that I have an advocate I am finally getting somewhere. 40 yr fixed @5% and reduction in principal and not having to add those payments to my loan. The service is free to consumers because lenders were not handling business fairly.

It doesn't sound to me like you were ripped off by Landsafe. Based on your comments it appears the 2 appraisals came in within $2000 of each other. That is really close. You will often get different values from different appraisers and any difference of less than 5% isn't significant. As far as the appraisal a last year being $9000 higher - maybe it was accurate, maybe it wasn't. It isn't that your house depreceiated by $9000 because appraising isn't an exact science. If that appraisal were a little high then it may be that the value of your property has been stable. It is also possible that the previous appraisal was accurate and your area has seen a slight decline. The bottom line is you have 3 appraisals and the two most recent appraisals came up with essentially the same value for your home.

No one likes paying money for something that doesn't benefit them. But, you paid for and received a service. You paid for the appraiser to provide an appraisal to the mortgage company. The purpose of that appraisal was not to insure that you get a loan but to assist the mortgage company in deciding whether to make the loan. The mortgage company made a decision based on the appraisal so you received the service you paid for. It's not the appraisers fault that your property is not worth enough to make the loan. The appraiser did his job and deserves to be paid for it.

I have to disagree with some things said by the other appraiser about Landsafe. I'm not a fan of companies like Landsafe but I have worked for them in the past. I don't get work from them now, probably because my fees are too high. The other appraiser complained about Landsafe's fees and it is true that they shop for the lowest fees. I can't blame them for that. It's the appraiser's decision whether or not they accept those fees. When I have worked for them in the past I never had any problems with them pushing values. I never got any pressure to hit a certain value or increase values. The only criticism I would make is that by shopping for lower fees they may not get the best appraisers (i.e. you get what you pay for).

In your situation it appears that things worked as they were supposed to. You got 2 appraisals that agreed with each other. The lender used these appraisals to make a decision. I'm sorry that you were not able to get the loan but if the value of the property isn't enough, it just isn't. That's just the way it is.

Karla,

You wanted to refinance. You never said that you were looking at other companies or talked to CW from the start. However, CW will try to prevent you from going somewhere else. As you said, youre credit score was a lot better before talking to them. If your credit score is not good, which Lender will talk to you? Servicers have recently been found to manipulate the credit score.

Do yourself a favor and go to CW's website.
Not only to they have the Appraisal Company Inhouse, but everything else that might come in handy, such as Insurance Co.(Balboa) , Sub-Prime Lending (Full Spectrum) Title Co. (Landsafe) and REO companies (CW Asset Management CO)

It's all in the family, if you know what I mean?
They were not interested in giving you a good deal, they were interested in keeping you with them and eventually holding you hostage to their unbelievable business practices. I have my own CW complaint on this website, too.

You are just what they are looking for, alone, female with children and a minority. Ripe for the pickin'!

There will always be someone like Jason, who won't believe what is going on because most likely it never happened to them. What they see on their computer screen appears legitimate so they don't question nothing.

Karla, I don't have a solution for you. This is happening all accross the board. I sold my home because I couldn't see my self dealing with this for the next 30 years. Some say go with a local State Bank, which is state-regulated and stipulate that your loan cannot be sold.

I just wanted to offer some support to you. It's going to be tough.

Jason (Vacaville, CA) paints a rosy, politically correct picture of CW.
Let's get a clearer view and insight of what Jason failed to state from an appraisers perspective. An appraiser who has worked for, labored for, been scweened, then thrown out like dirty dish water by the best of them (LS-CW).

Players=Landsafe (LS), Countrywide (CW), Full Spectrum (FS):

LS is fully owned and operated by CW. CW's resources have built LS.

LS has Staff / Preferred appraisers nationwide who act as independent contractors. On the outside looking in, LS appears clean, they are using State Certified Appraisers who must abide by National USPAP and State regulatory procedures. It is the unspoken control and manipulation before the appraiser's signature (on the report) that is never discussed or brought to light.

EVERY loan processed throughout CW MUST be ordered / hired out through LS (and most FS loans). So do the math, the largest lender in the country has its own form of management company that has it's hand in on every appraisal originated by CW / FS.

LS uses internal pressures to weed through and keep appraisers at will. If you don't believe there is manipulation going on, start researching appraisal forums / issues online.

LS KEEPS a major portion of every appraisal fee. This is their excuse of compensation for establishing and operating the mechanism to manipulate and control appraisers nationwide.

LS pays an appraiser $250-275 per report. LS keeps $100-150 per report for themselves. How much is this manipulation costing the appraisal industry? Probably tens of millions a year. How much is this costing the consumer, and eventually the entire country? Probably hundreds of millions a year.

By stealing from the appraisal industry, LS is usually only able to hire the newer, least experienced and financially desperate appraisers breaking into the industry. Most of the established profession REFUSES to perform work for LS. LS is a harassment company with the disguise of a management company. They call / email / fax 5-10 times a day on the same file. A full time appraisal employee is required just to keep up with their OVER COORDINATION. Why does an appraiser want to work for a company that hassles and hounds and forces him to take a discount for his work? Don't you think if the appraiser has a choice of which file to work on, an appraiser will take the full fee work before / over the discounted work? LS must operate this way to justify its position and relevancy in the profession.

LS does not disclose on the Truth & Lending or the Settlement Statement that the fee is split and that LS is keeping 30-50% of an purportedly unbiased report (take a look at your closing paperwork).

LS IS THE NATIONAL LEADER in ripping off the appraisal industry and simultaneously controlling the one and only side of the lending industry that is supposed to project an unbiased / audit point of view.

LS IS PART OF THE PROBLEM: LS establishes the Estimated Value on the order form (the target # for the appraiser).

LS hires and fires (sends business to or not) appraisers based on LS's perception of performance. You either suck up to them, take discounted work from them or you don't work for the largest lender in the country. It's that simple.

Class Action lawsuits have awarded millions to consumer's in CA based on these type of actions.

DON'T KID YOURSELF, LANDSAFE HAS VERY DIRTY HANDS IN THIS RESIDENTIAL HOME LOAN PROCESS. CW appears Clean, officially it is removed from the appraisal process, by a separate entity.

All of the MAJOR Lenders have adopted this rip-off technique (Bank of America has Home Focus etc).

NOW IS THE TIME FOR RADICAL CHANGES. REMOVE THE LENDER(S) FROM THE APPRAISAL PROCESS ONCE AND FOR ALL. CONGRESS NEEDS TO ABOLISH EACH AND EVERY COMPANY THAT POSES AS AN APPRAISAL MANGEMENT COMPANY, LEAVING THE APPRAISAL INDUSTRY AS AN INDEPENDENT THIRD PARTY. If not, you've only got yourselves to blame.

A few things here as someone who works for Countrywide.

1.) Landsafe is a company used by Countrywide to schedule appraisals, order credit reports, etc. to weed out fraud. One of the problems many companies have had in the past few years (see: Ameriquest) is that loan officers either threaten an appraiser into giving a certain value that they need to make their loan work or become such good friends with an appraiser that they will give them any value they ask for. This is a disservice not only to the company, but also to you, the borrower!

Think about this: Let's say, you're looking for a loan of $150,000, but based on your qualifications (credit, income, home value and other factors) you can only qualify for a loan of $140,000. The loan officer wants your business, so they get their appraiser buddy to inflate the value of the property. Six months down the road, you want to sell the house, but you owe more than the house is worth. I don't know of anyone offering gap insurance on a house.

So what Landsafe does is handle all of the appraisal issues. The appraisers don't actually WORK for Landsafe, they are merely approved agents who have proven that their work is accurate. Based on the fact that you said you have bad credit, I would assume you were working with the Full Spectrum division, which focuses on the "subprime" market. Due to the large amounts of predatory lending in this market, Full Spectrum employees CANNOT, under any circumstances, discuss anything with an appraiser. Everything has to go through Landsafe. It protects you, the consumer, and the company.

As far as a Countrywide employee suggesting you don't make a payment, that is completely against company policy. In fact, I get at least one e-mail a week from corporate reminding us NEVER to tell a borrower not to make a payment. This seems to be the work of a loan officer who isn't following protocol rather than a fault of Countrywide.

Either way, I'm sorry your experience was a negative one, but I assure you that this is generally a minority of customers who end up feeling this way.

Regards,

Never hold off on making your payment! Being in the mortgage business for years upon years, one of the biggest mistakes I see is a borrower not making their mortgage payment to save money! There is nothing that will kill a refinance quicker than that, it all equals out in the end so by all means make your payments.

I was told to hold off on making my payment by Countrywide, and they have told me that they would issue notification to the credit bureau. Thank you very much! All three appraisers were from Landsafe, a company working with the mortgage company. My error, but there are houses that sold for over 200,000 in my neighborhood, not the previously-stated figures..

Karla

I have to agree with Robert. Property values have gone down in some places and appraisers are under the gun right now. When the market was booming and buyers were willing to pay stupid money for properties, appraisers would come up with higher figures. You can call three different appraisers and get three different dollar amounts. They all figure it just a little different. You mentioned that you put a lot of upgrades in your home. Unfortunately, upgrades don't necessarily raise the value of your house by the amount you spent doing them. Also, remember the biggest thing in real estate is location, location, location. You said the houses in your area range from $125,000 to $155,000 or more. What are they actually selling for? An appraisal is based on recent sales not what is listed for sale. You also have to take into consideration square footage, year built, pool/no pool, etc. All lenders have certain appraisers that they work with. This is common everywhere. You should call around to a few lenders and see what kind of terms they are offering for re-financing. Also, if your credit scores are low try finding a mortgage broker that is willing to help you review your credit report and show you what you can do to improve your scores. Improving your scores generally doesn't take that long. Keep in mind though, being overextended will lower your score as well.
Good luck with your quest. I hope that you can find an agent that will be able to help you.

Karla, This seems to be an ongoing problem right now because not only have certain appraisers inflated values, but homes are not increasing like they were this time last year. Matter of fact there are some areas that are actually losing value right now.

I am not defending Countrywide but a year ago appraisers were a little looser on what they were willing to do and now they have a lot of heat on them regarding the values.

I am a little confused how Countrywide is at fault for you missing a payment, didn't you put that money aside knowing that you were not done with your loan? Did a loan officer tell you not to make the payment? There are other factors that were not discussed in your post. Are you upside down in your home now? Did you do a 100% financing when you refinanced last year?

Did Countrywide use an actual employee or just an appraiser that does a lot of business with them?

My advice is to call at least one other mortgage company if not two and see what they can do for you. A refinance is a big transaction and you should at least shop it with 3 companies.

Good luck to you!