NAFS - National Action Financial Services ripoff Rude and Harassing and I'm Not the One That Owes!!! Williamsville New York

Hi,i have worked for nafs (national action financel service)have you talked to a real supervisor they will take action on this complaint.but yes they do get veary

This is the education level of the employees at NAFS, lol!

I asked repeatedly to speak to a supervisor and got excuse after excuse why I couldn't (in a meeting, not there, not allowed) and at one point was even cursed at. Or I would be put on hold only to conveniently be disconnected.

When I told them that the person they were looking for was not in my household, I was accused of lying, told that since my name was connected with theirs they could come after me for the debt (even though I was not a signor on the debt or even listed as next of kin in the file).

I knew none of it was true and it only became problematic when they began calling my cell phone number and wouldn't tell me how they got it since they are not published numbers.

My feeling is that they were fishing for something that wasn't really there and were going to intimidate someone into paying something.

Hi,i have worked for nafs (national action financel service)have you talked to a real supervisor they will take action on this complaint.but yes they do get veary

The point of my post was not to start a bunch of kindergarten-level bickering over what I should do. I was merely trying to make others aware that this company is calling for someone related to me that does not live with me (has never lived with me) and they are dredging up information like cell phone numbers and unpublished phone numbers and harassing anyone they can get a hold of hoping we will give up a new phone number for them to call endlessly.

Since my post, they have stopped calling because I threatened legal action as did the relative they are looking for and several other relatives this company contacted. I also went ahead and sent the cease communications letter so they would have it in writing.

FYI, I have an attorney on permanent retainer that is all too happy to assist in these matters.

Thanks Allen for the defense; I hate criminal procedure so more power to you. Thanks to J, my finals went well.

Steve, I'm going to let you give people all the LEGAL advice as much as you want; it's just their problem if they take it without consulting an attorney before acting upon it.

I am starting a temp. job with, ironically, a law firm that specializes in FDCPA violations (they defend Creditors against FDCPA claims). Yes I will be representing the bad guys, not the good ones, but you can't learn how to defeat them unless you know how they work from the inside. Plus, I will learn a lot more about the FDCPA. So, in the interest of confidentiality and professionalism I won't be posting on this site anymore. So, Steve you can feel free to slam me all you want from this point forward I won't answer you.

BEWARE OF STEVE'S LEGAL ADVICE! I never said that his other advice was ALL bad, mostly just his legal advice.

J and Allen were right when they said that rules of civil procedure are very specific to jurisdiction. For instructions about filing motions, pleadings, and discovery you need to search for rules of civil procedure or rules of court on the internet for your specific jurisdiction/state. You can also go to the local court house and ask for any forms they may use for these fillings. Every state and jurisdiction (including federal) are different and do things so differently that for anyone to give advice about how to file them outside of their own jurisdiction is irresponsible (a trained attorney would NEVER do that); that's the point I was trying to make.

GOOD LUCK!

Thanks Allen for the defense; I hate criminal procedure so more power to you. Thanks to J, my finals went well.

Steve, I'm going to let you give people all the LEGAL advice as much as you want; it's just their problem if they take it without consulting an attorney before acting upon it.

I am starting a temp. job with, ironically, a law firm that specializes in FDCPA violations (they defend Creditors against FDCPA claims). Yes I will be representing the bad guys, not the good ones, but you can't learn how to defeat them unless you know how they work from the inside. Plus, I will learn a lot more about the FDCPA. So, in the interest of confidentiality and professionalism I won't be posting on this site anymore. So, Steve you can feel free to slam me all you want from this point forward I won't answer you.

BEWARE OF STEVE'S LEGAL ADVICE! I never said that his other advice was ALL bad, mostly just his legal advice.

J and Allen were right when they said that rules of civil procedure are very specific to jurisdiction. For instructions about filing motions, pleadings, and discovery you need to search for rules of civil procedure or rules of court on the internet for your specific jurisdiction/state. You can also go to the local court house and ask for any forms they may use for these fillings. Every state and jurisdiction (including federal) are different and do things so differently that for anyone to give advice about how to file them outside of their own jurisdiction is irresponsible (a trained attorney would NEVER do that); that's the point I was trying to make.

GOOD LUCK!

Thanks Allen for the defense; I hate criminal procedure so more power to you. Thanks to J, my finals went well.

Steve, I'm going to let you give people all the LEGAL advice as much as you want; it's just their problem if they take it without consulting an attorney before acting upon it.

I am starting a temp. job with, ironically, a law firm that specializes in FDCPA violations (they defend Creditors against FDCPA claims). Yes I will be representing the bad guys, not the good ones, but you can't learn how to defeat them unless you know how they work from the inside. Plus, I will learn a lot more about the FDCPA. So, in the interest of confidentiality and professionalism I won't be posting on this site anymore. So, Steve you can feel free to slam me all you want from this point forward I won't answer you.

BEWARE OF STEVE'S LEGAL ADVICE! I never said that his other advice was ALL bad, mostly just his legal advice.

J and Allen were right when they said that rules of civil procedure are very specific to jurisdiction. For instructions about filing motions, pleadings, and discovery you need to search for rules of civil procedure or rules of court on the internet for your specific jurisdiction/state. You can also go to the local court house and ask for any forms they may use for these fillings. Every state and jurisdiction (including federal) are different and do things so differently that for anyone to give advice about how to file them outside of their own jurisdiction is irresponsible (a trained attorney would NEVER do that); that's the point I was trying to make.

GOOD LUCK!

Thanks Allen for the defense; I hate criminal procedure so more power to you. Thanks to J, my finals went well.

Steve, I'm going to let you give people all the LEGAL advice as much as you want; it's just their problem if they take it without consulting an attorney before acting upon it.

I am starting a temp. job with, ironically, a law firm that specializes in FDCPA violations (they defend Creditors against FDCPA claims). Yes I will be representing the bad guys, not the good ones, but you can't learn how to defeat them unless you know how they work from the inside. Plus, I will learn a lot more about the FDCPA. So, in the interest of confidentiality and professionalism I won't be posting on this site anymore. So, Steve you can feel free to slam me all you want from this point forward I won't answer you.

BEWARE OF STEVE'S LEGAL ADVICE! I never said that his other advice was ALL bad, mostly just his legal advice.

J and Allen were right when they said that rules of civil procedure are very specific to jurisdiction. For instructions about filing motions, pleadings, and discovery you need to search for rules of civil procedure or rules of court on the internet for your specific jurisdiction/state. You can also go to the local court house and ask for any forms they may use for these fillings. Every state and jurisdiction (including federal) are different and do things so differently that for anyone to give advice about how to file them outside of their own jurisdiction is irresponsible (a trained attorney would NEVER do that); that's the point I was trying to make.

GOOD LUCK!

Amy, all I was doing, was pointing out, that because you are a paralegal and in law school, your advise is and will be held higher, if I came across wrong for that I,m sorry

No, I'm not an attorney just a retired cop so most of what I know is criminal

One thing that I can say, and if people want to listen. Is all court districts, there are civil rules, you should get to know them if your going pro-se. If you are served court papers at anytime either party can serve upon another request for admission, discovery and question.
and failure to answer these may bring more problems for you. and the court doesn't have to order them, unless you fail to answer.
how you answer is up to you. If you think your going to get a summons, I would start learning these things now.

Inside the back cover of these law books, are many forms that will help you file any Motions
Most clerk of courts have blank forms also

Each court districts are different in there rules
a lot follow Federal rules or set them up the same.

One thing people need to understand, what may work in one state, might not work in another
so know your state rules and law.

Sorry if I got off wrong on my last post and upset anyone, Don is correct this site is here to help people. Lets not get away from the issue the poster is asking help on
Amy good luck with your mid-terms
Steve, keep helping. I do like your style

Allen,

I don't know where to start as your post was very long.

You made a statement about me that I have made a habit out of not paying creditors. Really? I had 14 straight years of absolutely perfect payment history and a 735 credit score. The creditors got greedy and stupid, and I simply decided not to play their game any more. And I won.

As far as my many postings giving bad advice, I'll make the same challenge I made to Amy that she never took me up on. Post my bad advice here, verbatum, and tell why it is bad, and quote the law to back it up.

And, you ought to know that just because someone pays you to write a CEASE COMM letter, etc. DOES NOT create a legal attorney/client relationship that prevents anyone from contacting the client. If you notify the creditor that you have been retained in the matter, that is different. Who are you kidding?

FYI..My CEASE COMM letters usually stop them immediately, and also end collections efforts. They give up when you fight back. There is absolutely no reason to pay $50-$100 to have one of these letters written by an attorney. IT is an absolute waste of money.

I will say it again, MOST people who need legal representation, CANNOT afford it. Therefore, they have no choice but to defend themselves.

Bad advice on school loan debt? I need to see that one. Keep in mind, legal advice was never given or implied. I simply tell people what has worked for me. I am upfront about that, but you self proclaimed geniuses cannot grasp that.

My methods speak for themselves, as i have beaten every collection attempt and lawsuit in the past five years and to this day have not paid anyone a dime, and have no judgements against me. I am talking about multiple lawsuits and hundreds of contacts by collection agencies. I have gotten lawsuits dismissed without ever stepping into the courtroom. I guess my methods must have some merit!

The problem both you and Amy have is that you are offended that anyone can handle anything without having a lawyer. That is the real issue here.

Steve, J, and everyone:

This is probably the only time I will post on this site because I hate responding to this kind of stuff; I just like reading it. I have legal training too (I'm in my final year of law school). I don't think that any of Amy's advice could be construed as legal advice; she clearly states that she is NOT giving legal advice, that's she is NOT an attorney, she is NOT an expert, and for legal advice you need to speak with an attorney. That's all she needs to do, under MN law anyway, to be safe; she obviously knows that.

I have followed a lot of Steve's postings too. It's really frustrating to read some of the stuff he advises people to do, or not do, because some of it is really wrong. She is right about filing motions, discovery, and pleadings (I bet she's at least in her second year of law school or she has a lot of experience as a paralegal). Steve is giving "legal" advice when he tells people when and how to file pleadings, motions, and how to respond (or not respond)to discovery requests and I agree that he's wrong most of the time about that stuff. All of that is state specific and sometimes specific to individual jurisdictions so for him to advise someone else in another state to file certain motions at a certain time or to ignore discovery requests (interrogatories) is really wrong. By the way just because discovery requests don't come from the court doesn't mean that you don't have to respond to them.

Also, I have read some of Steve's postings pertaining to student loan debt and bankruptcy and it's totally wrong (Amy responded to those too). Bad advice is worse than no advice (a law school professor taught me that 1st year).

I think that you should all be thanking Amy for having the courage to call Steve out on his mistakes and I wouldn't blame her if she never posts on this site again. I can't believe that you all don't see that Steve has obviously made some sort of habit or hobby out of running up debt and getting out of it by fighting it in collections. I agree with Amy on that too because I think that his claims are very suspicious. His advice to avoid collection agencies is a bad way of dealing with debt because it certainly doesn't make it go away.

However, I agree with Steve that you should never speak with collection agencies on the phone and immediately sending them a verification letter is a good idea. That doesn't make the debt go away so you still need to take care of paying the debt once it's verified (if they can verify it). But, Amy is right, once it has escalated to the point that a lawsuit had been filed (if it's not a small claims issue) you NEED an attorney; always. You should never handle court proceedings yourself if you can help it because they will have attorneys and they will win.

Of course, it's always more effective for cease communications or verification letters to come from an attorney's office on their letterhead; if a person can afford it (that's what Amy said, not that you need an attorney for that). I clerked for an attorney last summer who dealt with FDCPA violations a lot. I must have drafted at least 50 verification or cease communications letters and 100% of the time the harassment stopped immediately and a lot of the time the collection activities stopped all together and the debt miraculously went away, because they couldn't verify the debt or it was past the SOL. Because it wasn't actually the attorney drafting the letter, it was either me or the paralegal, the attorney only charged anywhere from $50 to $100.00 for drafting and sending the letter depending on the circumstances. Amy was right about that too, once an attorney is involved, the collection agency can no longer contact you directly anymore because you are represented. So, that's a win/win situation.

I also don't see where Amy said that ALL attorneys are good in fact she slammed the Gurstel Law Firm several times (I know of them and she's right about them). She just said that you should consult an attorney when you need legal advice (not the internet) and she has said that a lot. A lot of us law students think that we are going to help people when we graduate but the cold hard truth of it is that most of us will end up working for corporations or large firms helping no one but the corporation or the firm. So, for Amy to try helping all of you was a good thing and she has been very careful not to cross the line. Steve, however, crosses it regularly. If you choose to act upon Steve's advice regarding legal issues without speaking to an attorney first you are really asking for trouble. Legal advice should always be sought from an attorney.

Sorry this was so long and drawn out but I just had to defend Amy because she's been right in ALL of her postings.

Amy,

You should let these people fend for themselves and when you graduate try to find a job in consumer law because you seem to have a real passion for it. (I like criminal procedure personally).

J,

I understand what you are saying but when a person is NOT an attorney they must reveal that and tell people that if they need legal advice they need to go to an attorney. I don't give legal advice but Steve does on a regular basis. He tells people what motions to file and when to file them and a lot of times his advice is wrong and requires an attorney's attention, immediately. In some, but not all, of his postings he tells people to seek an attorney to do those things but most of the time he tells them to handle things on his own even after a lawsuit has already been filed.

I also think that I have struck a cord with him because I think he fraudulently obtains credit in order to get out of it later. He brags about getting out of over $100,000 in debt apparently after declaring bankruptcy. He gives advice to people that is potentially harmful for their chances of defending themselves in a lawsuit; like not answering interrogatories which are part of the discovery process and NEED to be answered within the amount of time the state requires. Things like that are potentially harmful and could result in sanctions and even default judgments against them (of course depending on the rules of civil procedure in their state).

I don't give legal advice unless it comes directly from an attorney because that wouldn't be legal but when it comes to civil procedure I do know what I am talking about; as I suspect you do too. Most recently, Steve did claim to have legal training and since I was forthcoming about what mine is I was wondering what his is. When I graduate from law school I plan to specialize in consumer law issues especially violations of the FDCPA (because I have been on the receiving end of collection agencies) and I want to help people.

However, I have read a lot of Steve's postings that are helpful and I never respond to the things that he posts that are actually helpful. Ignoring debt, as he always seems to imply when he says to ignore collection agencies, is not the way to make debt go away. Usually that only leads to further aggravation and ultimately an attorney gets involved. That's when it's too late to deal with things on your own and you do NEED an attorney to defend you and you may also be subject to paying attorney's fees on top of the original debt.

But, even though I felt the need to clear things up here I don't really care if any of you follow Steve's advice and find out that it's not the best way of dealing with the situation the hard way. Don't answer interrogatories, don't respond to a summons in a proper manner or at all, don't deal with collection agencies at all; that's ok with me. In the next couple of years you will be hiring me to defend you anyway and I will be making money from his bad advice.

Good luck to all of you in dealing with debt because that's something I have dealt with mostly personally but also professionally and I know how really hard it is. Especially, good luck to all of you who are dealing with collection agencies through no fault of your own as in this situation because I have dealt with that personally, too. It sucks trying to get them to leave you alone but it's not impossible.

Katie,

If you can afford to pay the attorney to draft the letter, it will probably be more effetive than drafting it yourself in getting them to stop calling you.

Listen, as long as this site is open to the public to post responses, anyone is free to say what they want. However, the p*****g contest between Steve and Amy is not accomplishing anything. This site is not about putting others down, but people providing assistance to others. Both sides need to stop the insults here.

Amy, I read alot of your post on this site, in nearly all you tell everyone your a paralegal and going to school to be a attorney. and then give advise to people, most would think your giving legal advise, because you keep bring up your job and school and because you are a paralegal, your advise would be used and that would make it illegal. because a paralegal must work under an attorney.

As far as any advise Steve had given, would be what any person would share or give another, who has dealt with what, some of these companies are doing to people, even alot of attorney's. never once had Steve claimed to be an attorney or say he was a paralegal. and i for one never got that impression for steve, you on the other hand come across as a person giving legal advise, cause you can't say anything without telling people your a paralegal.

I'm glad for this site, Steve, Mark, Don, the collector, and most people helping others here even you Amy. because without the help of this site, alot of people would be screwed OVER BY THE SAME ATTORNEY'S YOU HOLD HIGH.

Steve,

You just can't stand to be wrong can you. I asked you in another posting, which you have not responded to, what legal training do you have? You claimed to, so what is it? You do give legal advice (telling people what motions to file and when to file is legal advice) a lot and it's wrong and even criminal in most, if not all states. I also asked you if you have made a career out of defrauding creditors by running up credit and getting out of it by waiting until it goes to collections. You so adamantly claim you have gotten out of over $100,000 in debt that way. Why if you declared bankruptcy in the 80's are you even dealing with collection agencies unless you didn't learn your lesson by that and ran up more debt afterwards? Why haven't you responded to those questions (I asked you on the 13th); is it because I might be on to something? I think that you have made a career out of running up credit with absolutely no intention of paying it back. I think that you purposely don't pay your bills so that they will go to collections that way when they inevitably violate the FDCPA (because they always do) you can get out of paying the debt by filing frivolous claims. I think that you are a fraud and possibly a criminal if the authorities ever catch up with your fraud scheme. Why don't you even attempt to pay your bills?

I believe that you know how to fight collection agencies because that's what you do for a living and to purposely get out paying your bills. That is distinctly different than people on this site who admit to being in debt but just want the harassment to stop; not to get completely out of paying the debt. That is because people who are in debt by accident don't go around trying to find a way out of paying it they just want a fair way to pay off their bills without being harassed in the mean time.

I can read Steve, but you just don't pay attention to what I post. I said that IF she can afford to pay an attorney to draft the letter it would probably be more effective coming on the attorney's letterhead rather than from her. Especially since it's not even her that the collection agency is looking for. I had that happen to me for months after getting a new phone number and they didn't even seem to care that I was a paralegal working for an attorney. So, I had the attorney I was working for draft letters to the collection agencies who were calling for the previous owner of the phone number, and I never heard another one of them again. It cost me $50 for that form letter which had his letterhead on it and it was very effective in stopping them immediately.

I also said that "legally" it's effective to do it herself however, I've seen matters like these stop immediately (both professionally and personally) after a collection agency gets a letter drafted by an attorney on an attorney's letterhead. The attorney probably will charge for less than an hour's work for doing it and in our case our attorney bills at $200/hr. and it cost us less than $100 for the letter (especially since a paralegal will probably be the one actually drafting the letter). And, if it's a big problem (like they're calling a lot or using profanity, etc.) and a person can afford it why not hit it hard right off the bat? Usually they stop once they receive a cease and desist letter from an attorney because they know that you've already sought and received legal advice from an attorney. Also, my attorney told me that they cannot legally contact you once you have obtained an attorney anyway so eitherway it stops.

So, in conclusion, ALL I said was that it is more EFFECTIVE to have an attorney draft the letter, not that a person NEEDS to have an attorney do it because that's not true. If a person can afford to pay an attorney to draft this letter I think it's a good idea especially if the harassment is really bothersome to the person. Also, it's relatively inexpensive to have an attorney draft a letter like that because it basically says to stop the calls and if it continues "we will have cause to sue for violations of the FDCPA". Ours was little more than 2 paragraphs long.

Amy,

I was very specific in saying that a lawyer is never needed unless a lawsuit is filed. It is always a waste of money for a simple collections issue not involving a lawsuit. I made that very clear.

Furthermore, nothing in my post above would be considered legal advice. It is simply a standard procedure to be used when dealing with a debt collector. it works. There is no legal issue yet, so it is not legal advice.

And, Ive seen lawyers give much worse collections related advice than I have ever given.

Gotta side with Steve on this one. Katie should not need a lawyer to draft a cease calls letter. Based on the post, they are not calling for her or her husband . The collection agency has broken the FDCPA from what was said. It sounds like they are skiptracing for her relative. They have obviously called more than once for skiptracing purposes. While the FDCPA does allow for calls back to numbers being used for skiptracing only, they are supposed to only to see if they have may have new information. Katie did not say how often these calls are happening.

Steve,

This woman already hired a lawyer who must have felt that his/her involvement in her matter was warranted. She obviously has the money to pay a lawyer so why are you advising her to drop her attorney and handle things on her own? I thought you said before that you ALWAYS advise people to hire lawyers if they can afford them.

Katie,

Most likely if NAFS gets a cease communications letter from you lawyer on their letterhead that will be the end of you hearing from them. However, if you handle it on your own, it is still legally effective however it's not as effective as far as actually getting them to stop calling you. So, if you have the money to pay the lawyer I would say that having him/her draft and send the letter would get you best results because then they know that you have no problem getting a lawyer involved. In fact, once you are represented by an attorney they cannot directly contact you anymore anyway.

Good Luck!

Katie,

There is absolutely no reason to spend the money on a lawyer to send a CEASE COMMUNICATIONS letter to these freaks.

Simply identify the numbers they are calling and demand that per the provisions of the FDCPA they CEASE ALL COMMUNICATIONS with you. Also inform them that you have told the reps on the phone that this person they are looking for is not in your household or at your number. Inform them that the rep clearly refused to acknowledge your request and stated the letter would not stop them from calling.

Send this letter by certified mail, return reciept requested. Be sure to put the certified# on the letter itself and keep a copy for your records. This is very important as it proves WHAT you sent.

Now, when they violate your legal request, sue them for the max of $1000 that the law allows, plus costs such as legal fees. Now get that lawyer, as they will be paying for it.

Agency Details

National Action Financial Services, Inc.
165 Lawrence Bell Dr Ste 100
Williamsville, NY 14221-7817
Phone: (716) 565-1020
Fax: (716) 565-1035
Web Address: www.sitel.com

Tell you what... next time they call just tell them to hold on a minute and put the phone down. then just walk away from it... or put it next to a radio so they can listen to music..

My favorite is to hold the #2 button down.. just hold it until they hang up... they will hang up, trust me.

Or better yet, get a wistle and just blow it into the phone everytime they try to talk.

Enjoy the day!!