OPTIONETICS ripoff Dishonest and misleading promises in their introductory recruiting seminars that did not materialise when paid into 'teaching'seminar. Redwood City California

I have been involved with several "refund offers". Often I get the refund. I was doing a search on optionetics to find just this kind of rip off report. (Or a praise report).

I will simply say that I have dealt with people who say they will give you a refund and then make you jump through all kinds of hoops making it impossible to get one.

I will not be getting involved with optionetics if, for no other reason that the whole process was a hassle for someone dealing with you. You should consider how many people you will loose like me just because you wouldn't refund someone their' $3K.

I've HAD IT with these internet "bait and switch" things. And if/when I pay that kind of money I want to be "part of the family" as the TV ad said. Not just some piece of meat. And I'm sure I'm not alone.

To John of Baltimore

This will be my last reply to your comments as I feel that this is not an appropriate venue for verbal fist-I-cuffs, particularly from a 3rd party.

My hands on teaching reference was to the introductory seminar promise that there would be "hands" on training in one or more real trades, this did not occur.

We also expected nothing less than a classroom situation in all aspects with our expectations for content based on that promised or outlined during the introductory seminar.

To John of Baltimore

This will be my last reply to your comments as I feel that this is not an appropriate venue for verbal fist-I-cuffs, particularly from a 3rd party.

My hands on teaching reference was to the introductory seminar promise that there would be "hands" on training in one or more real trades, this did not occur.

We also expected nothing less than a classroom situation in all aspects with our expectations for content based on that promised or outlined during the introductory seminar.

To John of Baltimore

This will be my last reply to your comments as I feel that this is not an appropriate venue for verbal fist-I-cuffs, particularly from a 3rd party.

My hands on teaching reference was to the introductory seminar promise that there would be "hands" on training in one or more real trades, this did not occur.

We also expected nothing less than a classroom situation in all aspects with our expectations for content based on that promised or outlined during the introductory seminar.

To John of Baltimore

This will be my last reply to your comments as I feel that this is not an appropriate venue for verbal fist-I-cuffs, particularly from a 3rd party.

My hands on teaching reference was to the introductory seminar promise that there would be "hands" on training in one or more real trades, this did not occur.

We also expected nothing less than a classroom situation in all aspects with our expectations for content based on that promised or outlined during the introductory seminar.

"John, I have never been satisfied with the stance of Optionetics and their silence to my letters, the first was written on the second day of the teaching seminar."

Ah, so it was all a personal grudge people. Good natured ribbing aside, let me address the issue I believe you said I missed.

The point I have missed according to you, is that optionetics gave misleading info about their teaching seminar, of which I assume your issue is with the teaching not being hands on. To that I ask you, what is hands on? If by that you mean one on one time with the instructors, getting personallized attention, then no. A 2 day seminar usually has in excess of 75 people. I don't know of any school that has one to one instructors. I do believe it is hands on in the sense that the instructors are more than willing to answer any questions one may have, no matter how beginner it may be. Does your partner, a college lecturer, ever teach a class of just 1? But I'm sure your partner is still willing to help the students whenever possible.

John of Baltimore has not fully read my report and has therefore missed the point of my complaint against Optionetics entirely.

Optionetics did in their advertising and introductory seminar make promises that the seminar would be an excellent venue for the novice with much hands on teaching, this did not materialise.

As the teaching seminar was obviously prepared in advance, it does suggest that Optionetics did knowingly make false and misleading statements during the introductory seminars (I attended two before purchase), all with identical content.

In my jurisdiction (and most others) this places Optionetics in contravention of the Business Practices and Consumer Protection Act 4(1)Dececptive acts or practices and also that of Canada Competition Bureau Act part V11.1 Deceptive marketing practices.

This makes the contract conditional refund agreement null and void on the part of Optionetics by deceptive practice and removes their shield against refund. My problem has always been in forcing their hand without expensive litigation.

John, I have never been satisfied with the stance of Optionetics and their silence to my letters, the first was written on the second day of the teaching seminar.

Look at other complaints against Optionetics and similar experiences as my own, the law of averages suggest that these must be the tip of the iceberg.

Let me address the points Keith that you have presented.

You state the 1st morning you were given info that was a repeat of the intro public offering. To that I say, what about the people who bought the home study course via other means and had not excercised their right to go to a optionetics 2-day seminar? The intro 2 hour workshop is not the only means to have a look at what optionetics offers. Those who bought the course, say online, wouldn't have been exposed to the same info as per the intro workshop.

2nd, you state the afternoon 1st day session was way over your heads. That may be for many new students who do not know anything about the market and much less specialized derivatives such as options. Even so, it is all in your material and you may reattend as many optionetics 2 day courses as you like. If you have not made any progress so far, please dust off the home study course and come back to a 2 day seminar AT NO CHARGE.

3rd, you asked for a refund back AFTER the refund point in time has passed. Come on, what did you expect? As for other refund issues, since I do not work for optionetics, I have no knowledge of which to better serve this discussion.

I see this post is 1 year late, and unless I have missed something or you have been satisfied since then, let's leave this as is.

The Optionetics rebuttal contains misleading statements in that the only letter they claim that I have sent was dated September 2003 - and NO - they did not reply to that letter. It was also the last letter sent by myself to Optionetics until the current exchange through Rip-Off Report.

The issue, if Optionetics cares to revisit my initial claim was that of misleading statements to what would be expected during their seminar. This was witnessed by my partner who can be described as an expert witness on lectures and presentation being a college lecturer.

My initial approach to Optionetics for refund was before the start of the 2nd days seminar as it was obvious that the seminar direction was not as promised. This was refused as having passed the previous days noon deadline and to quote "because most of the new recruits had dropped out and the seminar was costing money, so they could not make a refund".

I did subsequently phone followed up by email and letter December 10.2001 (also offered to return materials at my cost) with further letter May 5.2002 redirected June 16.2002, this June 16. letter was registered for recorded delivery - text as below.

(As proof,I am willing to e-mail electronic copy of letter and register stub to interested parties directly concerned with this issue).

To Optionetics dated June 16.2002.
Dear Sir, Request for Refund.
On May 5.2002, I sent the attached letter to your Florida address and as of this date have received no reply, will now try your California office.
My last communication with your office was verbal on December 10.2001 followed up by letter and e-mail on the same issue.

I sincerely trust that this now longstanding issue of refund can be dealt with amicably. Yours truly, K.B.

No reply was received. I rest my case (for the moment).

Keith indeed purchased a 2 days seminar and home study course in November 2001. He received all the materials in advance and attended both days of the seminar.

Our records show that in September 2003 - 2 years after purchase he contacted us for a refund and was told that he did not qualify. Our policy is any time without question up to lunch of the first day of the event or within 7 months after with your trading records.

In October 28 2004 he files this report 3 years after purchase.

We have little or virtually no record of any communication for 3 years with the customer.

It is impossible to be able to verify anything that happenned three years or over possibly 4,000 seminars/events ago. I am not denying that the customer is disappointed but it is impossible for me to verify anything after this many years.

Thanks for reading.