Us Bank intentional "fixing" of purchases Clarksville Tennessee

Chris, first of all, there is a lot of information missing here. The first is that there is no reason why the OP states why the deposit was held; there probably was a VERY valid reason. For example, if the deposit was a sizable amount or from out of state, the bank can hold a deposit for as long as two weeks in order to receive verification the checks are good. Next, the OP indicates the bank didn't tell them the check was going to be held; if the deposit was done at an ATM, chances are an ATM will not inform anyone a check will be held.

Again, the question becomes whether this situation occurred as a result of banking at this bank, or whether this would have happened anywhere. As the overdrafts were the result of a debit card use, it would seem this would be a debit card issue and would have happened at any bank in any city. The rest is not knowable because of all the missing information. However, in reading portions of this rant, I doubt seriously the OP even knows who the right entity/person to blame is; most of these are either self-inflicted wounds, or merchant issues, and in the end, that is where the blame on most of this lies. The bank only processes transactions and does nothing else.

This can NEVER happen in an accurate check register that the account holder should be using. Why would you think that it does?

Why do you US Bank cheerleaders keep putting words in my mouth simply because I disagree with you? I never said this activity (crediting debits back to the account, then debiting them again if the account goes negative CAUSES overdrafts), but the only reason to do it is to benefit the bank as much as possible if the account holder goes negative for whatever reason.

Yes they were. Why would you think that they weren't? Other than a fraudulent transaction - which is not the bank's fault either as much as you would like it to be - it is a hold (money removed) that someone authorized a transaction and must be dropped after 3 days (money put back) if the merchant hasn't asked the bank for it yet.

I don't think they are because holds get credited back to an account after an appropriate time, they don't get debited again. This is very simple. As you said yourself, the money is put back after 3 days. However, you didn't mention anything about the money getting removed again. Hence, you proved yourself wrong.

"My problem is with things that debit from the account and then credit back and then debit again when it benefits the bank the most."

>> This can NEVER happen in an accurate check register that the account holder should be using. Why would you think that it does?

"These are not holds."

>> Yes they were. Why would you think that they weren't? Other than a fraudulent transaction - which is not the bank's fault either as much as you would like it to be - it is a hold (money removed) that someone authorized a transaction and must be dropped after 3 days (money put back) if the merchant hasn't asked the bank for it yet.

I'm not denying the validity of holds and I never said you were an employee. My problem is with things that debit from the account and then credit back and then debit again when it benefits the bank the most. These are not holds.

There is a totally valid reason for expiring holds, and every financial institution does it. (and no Chris, I don't work for a bank, much less this one).

When you swipe your card a hold gets placed against funds in your account. When the actual debit is submitted by the merchant, it is matched to the hold, and they cancel themselves out. It's a beautiful thing.... until...

You swipe your card for a $25 lunch at a restaurant, and $25 is held from your account. You like the waitress, so you add a $5 tip, so the merchant clears a $30 debit. The original hold for $25 is never going to be matched. Gas stations are notorious for holding only a dollar, or for holding $75 or $100, regardless of what you pump. Hotels often hold $200 to cover themselves for incidental charges you may or may not make to the room.

The result is that there has to be a system to handle unmatched holds, otherwise your 25 restaurant tab would be held forever. What it is, is that each bank sets a timer on the items. The timer ranges from 1 to 5 days, depending on the bank. BoA is 1 day (I believe). 3 days is common. When timer timer expires, the hold is dropped and funds are released. This doesn't mean that you don't have to have funds to pay the debit when the merchant decides to release it, it just means that you *CANNOT* depend on an online balance to know what you can spend. The only thing an online balance is good for, and all it was ever intended to do, is to help you balance your check register.

You mean that the hold expires before the transaction is hard posted? How is that a ripoff? Did you know that a properly used and maintained check register would have informed the OP what their balance was? It appears that they are checking their balance over the phone or online which is not what those systems were designed for.

There is no reason for the debit to be credited back to the account (available balance) and then debited again at the precise moment in order to accrue fees. Expiring holds only get credited, not debited twice. Sorry, but that's a big rip off. Even if you keep a perfect check register, that wouldn't predict the bank doing this.

Wait a second... let's say that the holds expired and the funds were credited back. That would bring the account balance to $70 and the $80 transaction would bring it to -$10. Your math is off by $20.

I meant -$10. That was a typo, and what do you mean the holds expire? If the holds expire, they should be only credited back to the account, not debited again. That's what a hold is. If a rental car company puts a $400 hold on my debit card (if I choose to use one instead of a credit card), that hold expires after a few days and that money is credited back to my account. The money does not again get debited.

When you opened your account, you agreed to the terms and conditions that were disclosed to you at the time. The booklet explaining the terms and conditions was inside of the blue cardboard envelope that every new account holder receives and that includes how the bank processes transactions. Generally speaking, the banks use language along the lines of processing transactions in any order and that includes from highest to lowest. If you do not agree to those terms, you are free to reject them and go elsewhere.

Nowhere in the terms and conditions does it say they can credit debits back to the available balance and then debit them again when it benefits them the most. If that's somewhere in the terms and conditions, post it on here.

Now when you look at your properly used check register and see that you only have $10 and are about to authorize an $80 transaction, you do so knowing that this will overdraft your account and you will likely be hit with fees associated with your other pending transactions.

The problem is that the transactions are not pending. They have already left the account and are credited back for no other reason than they can be debited again to accrue more fees.

Furthermore, anyone who cannot absorb an unexpected bill of $80 either through savings, a credit card or even a cash advance is in seriously dire financial straits. This person is in need financial counseling.

That has nothing to do with anything. I'm saying if they don't have credit cards or savings. Many people don't. Cash advances are not applicable if it's an emergency.

Chris wrote:

"As usual you're blinded by your own desire to defend this bank at any cost and missed the point entirely. The 'rip off' here was that the bank credits debits back to your account at the last moment before a big purchase goes through and after the account goes negative, they debit those transactions back so they can accrue overdraft fees."

Response: You mean that the hold expires before the transaction is hard posted? How is that a ripoff? Did you know that a properly used and maintained check register would have informed the OP what their balance was? It appears that they are checking their balance over the phone or online which is not what those systems were designed for.

Chris wrote:

"Here's an example: If I have $70 in my account (available) and make 6 purchases of $10 each, which brings my available balance to $10. Let's say that something comes up where I MUST pay something that puts me in the negative. Let's say it's an emergency and I have to pay $80 for something like, oh, I don't know, an emergency room visit and have no other way of paying. The bank then credits back those 6 purchases just before the $80 is removed from my account, so the $80 transaction puts my account to $10"

Response: Wait a second... let's say that the holds expired and the funds were credited back. That would bring the account balance to $70 and the $80 transaction would bring it to -$10. Your math is off by $20.

Chris wrote:

"and those 6 purchases can now gleefully collect overdraft charges. Explain to me how this acceptable or even legal because this happened to me several times when I was with this bank."

When you opened your account, you agreed to the terms and conditions that were disclosed to you at the time. The booklet explaining the terms and conditions was inside of the blue cardboard envelope that every new account holder receives and that includes how the bank processes transactions. Generally speaking, the banks use language along the lines of processing transactions in any order and that includes from highest to lowest. If you do not agree to those terms, you are free to reject them and go elsewhere.

Now when you look at your properly used check register and see that you only have $10 and are about to authorize an $80 transaction, you do so knowing that this will overdraft your account and you will likely be hit with fees associated with your other pending transactions.

By the way, emergency rooms are required to stabilize you regardless of your ability to pay. You can simply request that they bill you and that way you won't have to overdraft your account in this scenario.

Furthermore, anyone who cannot absorb an unexpected bill of $80 either through savings, a credit card or even a cash advance is in seriously dire financial straits. This person is in need financial counseling.

"...this happened to me several times when I was with this bank."

That one line says it all. Most people would have learned from it the first(and then ONLY) time.

You never did, after several recurrences.

As usual you're blinded by your own desire to defend this bank at any cost and missed the point entirely. The "rip off" here was that the bank credits debits back to your account at the last moment before a big purchase goes through and after the account goes negative, they debit those transactions back so they can accrue overdraft fees. Here's an example: If I have $70 in my account (available) and make 6 purchases of $10 each, which brings my available balance to $10. Let's say that something comes up where I MUST pay something that puts me in the negative. Let's say it's an emergency and I have to pay $80 for something like, oh, I don't know, an emergency room visit and have no other way of paying. The bank then credits back those 6 purchases just before the $80 is removed from my account, so the $80 transaction puts my account to $10 and those 6 purchases can now gleefully collect overdraft charges. Explain to me how this acceptable or even legal because this happened to me several times when I was with this bank.

As usual you're blinded by your own desire to defend this bank at any cost and missed the point entirely. The "rip off" here was that the bank credits debits back to your account at the last moment before a big purchase goes through and after the account goes negative, they debit those transactions back so they can accrue overdraft fees. Here's an example: If I have $70 in my account (available) and make 6 purchases of $10 each, which brings my available balance to $10. Let's say that something comes up where I MUST pay something that puts me in the negative. Let's say it's an emergency and I have to pay $80 for something like, oh, I don't know, an emergency room visit and have no other way of paying. The bank then credits back those 6 purchases just before the $80 is removed from my account, so the $80 transaction puts my account to $10 and those 6 purchases can now gleefully collect overdraft charges. Explain to me how this acceptable or even legal because this happened to me several times when I was with this bank.

As usual you're blinded by your own desire to defend this bank at any cost and missed the point entirely. The "rip off" here was that the bank credits debits back to your account at the last moment before a big purchase goes through and after the account goes negative, they debit those transactions back so they can accrue overdraft fees. Here's an example: If I have $70 in my account (available) and make 6 purchases of $10 each, which brings my available balance to $10. Let's say that something comes up where I MUST pay something that puts me in the negative. Let's say it's an emergency and I have to pay $80 for something like, oh, I don't know, an emergency room visit and have no other way of paying. The bank then credits back those 6 purchases just before the $80 is removed from my account, so the $80 transaction puts my account to $10 and those 6 purchases can now gleefully collect overdraft charges. Explain to me how this acceptable or even legal because this happened to me several times when I was with this bank.

As usual you're blinded by your own desire to defend this bank at any cost and missed the point entirely. The "rip off" here was that the bank credits debits back to your account at the last moment before a big purchase goes through and after the account goes negative, they debit those transactions back so they can accrue overdraft fees. Here's an example: If I have $70 in my account (available) and make 6 purchases of $10 each, which brings my available balance to $10. Let's say that something comes up where I MUST pay something that puts me in the negative. Let's say it's an emergency and I have to pay $80 for something like, oh, I don't know, an emergency room visit and have no other way of paying. The bank then credits back those 6 purchases just before the $80 is removed from my account, so the $80 transaction puts my account to $10 and those 6 purchases can now gleefully collect overdraft charges. Explain to me how this acceptable or even legal because this happened to me several times when I was with this bank.

1. Any bank tells you their funds availibility and fee schedules upfront. You sign a document stating that you understand the terms of the account.

2. You admitted you overdrew. Submit to the fee.

3. US Bank and I'm sure pretty much any other bank nowadays have mulitiple ways to check your balance. (Phone, ATM, internet, text messaging.) You act like they hid the negative balance from you.


Yet another rip-off report of someone making an error and not wanting to blame themselves. Tsk tsk.