US Bank overdraft fee ripoff purposely slow processing of deposits intent to ripoff Hillsboro Oregon

Do you all not know what a business day is?

Order of debits is IRRELEVANT if you keep a sufficient balance.

Fees occur if you CLOSE OUT A BUSINESS DAY with a negative balance.

So, in other words, banks could post your debits in ANY ORDER and it WOULDN'T MATTER if you don't have a negative at the end of the business day!

Quit playing dumb, overdrafters. You just want to blame your negligence on someone else. Submit to the mathmatical logic. You lost. Pay the fee. Move on with your life.

You stated...

"The order of debits is totally irrelevant as long as you maintain a sufficient balance."

I know you also enjoy using the term "conspiracy" in another feeble attempt to discredit those who complain about the banks tactics...but it comes down to this..which is the reason this matter (and others) is again going to trial, and policies as well as laws are changing...

True..."IF" there is a sufficient balance, the order of debits would be irrelevant.

However, there is apparently occasion when insufficient balances occur...hence the answer we seek..is "WHY" are the debit orders being changed?

I think those of us living in reality already know the answer to that.

A conspiracy would be if this was done in secret..which I am sure the bank would prefer. But the cat is out of the bag and most banks still do it..hence it is now just another scam..or "rip off" if you prefer.

Edward makes some valid points..but I don't expect a bank defender to care about what the banks have been getting away with..they only care to blame customers and try to discredit the legitimate complaints.

Quote:

    ''Order of debits is totally irrelevant if you keep a sufficient balance. Period.''

I am the law is exactly right.  Too bad this didn't sink in to the Mortgage and Car Loan check writers about five years ago, when they ''supposedly'' requested order of debits to be CHANGED on all of the banking surveys.

Too bad this didn't sink in with the VERY BANKS THEMSELVES who cowtowed to this same group of customers based on those ''supposed'' surveys.

I guess the old saying is true.  The law is never around when you need him.

Ronny G, why are you trying to make this higher math?

The order of debits is totally irrelevant as long as you maintain a sufficient balance.

Example 1:

You have $100, you spend $100. You're fine.

Example 2:

You have $100, you spend $100.01. You'll overdraft.

As long as you have a zero balance or a positive balance at the end of the business day, you won't get a fee. It's not a corporate conspiracy, it's common sense. The only people who scream "illegal" or " bank conspiracy" are people who just refuse to admit when they've made a mistake. Grow up, people.

And who are you to tell anyone here what to copy and paste? You may call yourself "I am the law", but you are just another typical schmuck.

The information that is copy and pasted is for the victims of the banks to be aware of the lawsuits and where to submit their complaint if they wish to...it is their legal right, speaking of law. Would it make you feel any better if I hand typed it each time rather then copy and paste? What's the difference, it still would give the same info.

As far as the typical bank defender statement..."Order of debits is totally irrelevant if you keep a sufficient balance. Period."

That statement may appear to be true to the biased ignorant, but what is also true is why the bank is changing the order regardless. Because one could also state, "if the bank didn't change the order of debits, or automatically enroll every customer into courtesy overdraft protection, the fees would be substantially reduced or avoided". I would say that is relevent to several million victims and future potential victims and loyal customers honest mistakes.

 And if the banks use your statement as a defense in the lawsuits against all the charges..they will be paying out a heck of a verdict. The banks are lucky you are not their lawyer. Period.

Order of debits is totally irrelevant if you keep a sufficient balance. Period.

The original poster stated " I was told that to reverse the overdraft fees cuts into the branches earnings" This is true..since these types of fees over the last few years have become the new "profit center" for banks. They can't seem to make a profit doing it by legitimate means, or fair lending so they have become no better then a TV infomercial and thrive on deception.  I can tell you one thing..it does not cost the bank anywhere NEAR what they charge to cover an overdraft (it's all done electronically, no money actually changes hands, no human processing was required). And since most customers cover the overdraft and fees with a deposit..and/or the bank simply deducts it from the next direct deposit including all the fees...you can understand what a huge profit these banks are making from said victims...well according to the FDIC report..around 40 BILLION dollars in 09 alone. So although the bank would not really be losing more then a few cents if they forgave some of the excessive overdraft fees..they certainly stand to lose "profit" if they do..this is the new game with banking these days. Not to say the bank should forgive chronic intentional overdrafters or those irresponsible with their accounts..but by certain tactics they have found a way to pillage a customer in the event of an overdraft that occurred for ANY reason..and use these tactics to compound fees and actually charge fees for transactions that did have the funds available at the time of the transaction..more on that later...

At the end of the post is asked..."How is the consumer to know what the reversal policies (or others) are since they differ from branch to branch, at the whim of the local manager?"

The policy is to do all that is possible not to return a dime. Most banks however seem to give half back to first time "offenders".  In my case an unauthorized charge brought my account into overdraft. The bank told me if I can get the charge reversed they would remove all overdraft fees..which they did. Now I read here some banks will not do this, and then it requires a filing of a dispute form "E" to get the bank to do anything. Most customers do not know this and just except the fees, as the bank will always tell you it's not their fault. I feel if customers were more persistent, they would recoup most if not all of the fees..provided they are not habitual overdrafters. Mistakes and oversights happen and should be forgiven, but the banks lately only care about the fees, they do not care about customer service or satisfaction. Oh they will say anything to get you to open an account..and take out a debit card, and sign up for online banking and auto bill pay and direct deposit..but after that it is shaft city for many customers.

Yes, many problems with financial institutions and these outrageous fees are due to the consumer not knowing or understanding how everything works. And yes...consumers who overdraft are going to be subject to fees.

But...back at an earlier post by Jentol1 of Tigard USA the title states "There is a CASE"..and there IS ....

A direct quote near the end of her post..."I have never bounced a check to my bank...NEVER and yet they rape me of hundreds and hundreds of dollars and I cant even choose to avoid them"

What is apparently happening in this case..and MILLIONS and millions of others..is a direct result of bank deceptive, unfair, unethical and completely UNNECESSARY policies, which the bank with sole intent is using against DEBIT card users. What they are intentionally doing, is applying antiquated policies designed for check users..allegedly for the purpose of "protecting" large "important" check payments such as a mortgage, and using this AGAINST typical debit card users who by the banks own promotions..use the debit card for everyday small purchases in lieu of cash.

What I ask the banks..is which transaction did they think was the mortgage payment?? The soda, the coffee or the cigarettes? Maybe the gas in my car? Maybe the Big Mac? Regardless, they covered ALL these transactions..whether a big screen TV overdrafted you by 50 dollars...or a dinner overdrafted you by 50 dollars. Besides...how can they know which transaction is most "important"? Maybe $1500 dollars was used to by a home theater system..and $150.00 was heart medication. Which one was really more important? And the bank would cover them both anyhow if enrolled in courtesy overdraft protection, which most banks have been enrolling all checking account customers into whether they wanted it or not (but that is changing..new laws in effect by July for the banks that have not changed on their own yet)

Bottom line is this. These policies DID NOT and DO NOT protect debit card users. The re-sequencing of our transactions, the so called "courtesy" overdraft protection, the excessive deposit waiting times, the excessive check clearing times, the manipulations of our bank statements, and on and on..all devised WITH INTENT to maximize fees. And who a better target then the elderly on fixed incomes..wounded veterans, the very young and students, the poor...yes, according to the FDIC report these fees were disproportionately collected from these very groups, not surprising. But as stated..all checking account customers are potential victims.. although chances are a customer who is financially well off will not overdraft anyhow..or will more likely be forgiven since the bank wants to keep them as a happy customer.

Best defense of course is to not overdraft, but in the REAL world, overdrafting will occur, that is an indisputable fact and a given. Now some positive changes have started to take effect..or will later this year, most by July..and this was due to all the complaints, pressure from congress and negative press. Not to mention all the class action lawsuits.

There is a major one in process now and it is not too late to submit your complaint to plaintiffs counsel..here is the information..Not surprisingly..US Bank is one of the defendants..

Consolidated, Nationwide Class Action Lawsuits Filed in Federal Court Against Bank of America, Wachovia, U.S. Bank, JPMorgan Chase and Citibank
October 20, 2009 11:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time

MIAMI--(EON: Enhanced Online News)--Marking a substantial step forward in litigation over the banking industrys abusive and excessive overdraft fee policies and practices, plaintiffs' counsel announced that bank customers have filed a series of nationwide class action lawsuits against Bank of America, Wachovia, U.S. Bank, JPMorgan Chase and Citibank. The complaints were filed in the United States District Court for the Southern District of Florida in Miami, where all federal lawsuits brought against the banking industry for abusive overdraft fees have been coordinated before the Honorable James Lawrence King.

"The collection of excessive overdraft fees, usually around $35 per transaction, impacts millions of Americans each year and has become a multibillion-dollar profit center for the banks," explained lead plaintiffs counsel Bruce S. Rogow. "In many instances, these overdraft fees cost customers hundreds of dollars in a matter of days, or even hours, when they may be overdrawn by only a few dollars. Charging a $35 overdraft fee when a college student uses her debit card to buy a cup of coffee is unconscionable."

How Bank "Overdraft Protection" Works and Why the Abusive Collection of Overdraft Fees is a National Concern

Today, when customers open checking accounts, banks provide debit cards for the withdrawal of cash from ATM machines and the purchase of goods and services. Many bank customers are not aware that as part of the process of obtaining the debit card, banks automatically enroll their customers in "overdraft protection." The overdraft protection kicks in if the customer spends more than he or she has in the account to cover the purchase, up to a limit of a few hundred dollars.

Banks could simply decline to honor customer ATM or point-of-sale transactions if the account lacks sufficient funds, or could warn customers that if they go through with the transaction an overdraft fee will be assessed. In fact, until a few years ago, most banks simply declined debit transactions that would overdraw an account.

"Banks do not record charges and purchases on ATM or debit cards in the order they actually occur,"

stated plaintiffs counsel Michael W. Sobol of Lieff Cabraser Heimann & Bernstein, LLP. "Instead, banks reorder the charges and purchases so that the largest charge or purchase is the first one paid by the bank. This manipulative practice is intentionally designed, the complaints allege, to maximize overdraft fee revenue."

"If you buy your kids a $15 meal at McDonalds on your debit card and your account was overdrawn, that lunch actually cost you $50," added Mr. Sobol. "The bank wont decline the debit transaction, nor will the bank tell you that you have overdrawn your account and is about to turn your $15 lunch into a $50 expense."

In 2007, banks collected more than $17 billion in overdraft fees. That number nearly doubled in 2008, as more and more consumers struggled to maintain positive checking account balances. In 2009, banks are expected to bring in up to $40 billion in overdraft charges from nearly 50 million customers.

"While all bank customers could have been affected, these overdraft fee policies disproportionately affect young people, the elderly and the poor, who are most likely to maintain low account balances," noted Mr. Rogow. "Moreover, these fees have the tendency to create a domino effect, resulting in even more fees."

Further Information for Bank Customers

Bank customers assessed overdraft fees who wish to learn more about this litigation should visit [www.bank-overdraft.com] where they can submit their complaint to plaintiffs counsel.
Contacts

Lieff Cabraser Heimann & Bernstein, LLP
Michael W. Sobol, 415-956-1000
or
Bruce S. Rogow, 954-767-8909

Myself being a victim of this crime called overdraft fees can be solved very simply.

First I love all of you that say we should be happy a bank refunded half of our fees.

Yeah..Do you even know the logic behind the fees and the order they are imposed.

They  take the largest transaction of the day out first and so on. Telling you this is so your important bills will get paid.  Hmm. Are we that stupid.  How about taking the smallest transaction first, which will reduce the amount of flushed money (fees $35 a pop) down the toilet, which is assessed for every transaction once your overdrawn.

You see I could be a poor sole with a balance of lets say $200 and I have 5 transactions coming in on the same day. 4 transactions total $195, which would be covered by the money you have in the bank and the 5th transaction is $200 by itself.

which would be paid by the bank and only create on fee.  Not so fast the bank does the transactions in a way that benefits you the customer.  So since the $200 is the largest transaction it comes out first meaning the 4 other smaller transactions create overdrafts at $35 per transaction time 4. totalling-$140

So I ask you, which method truly helps the customer.  Taking the largest transaction out first creating higher fees(which would limit the amount of overdrafts paid), or taking out the transactions in the order of smallest to largest, which in the example above would create one overdraft fee of $35.

You decide.  The banks set the transactions up to make the most in fees from you.

I've monitored online an entire day and through the night and have nothing posted and then deposit cash in the bank first thing the next morning only to find 5, or 6 transactions posted and dated the day before as to cause the overdraft.

Well you know what?  If the banks only give you until 2pm for deposits to count on that day then their transactions that don't post on same day should not be allowed to post the next day with a back dating of one day.

Bank CEO could save themselves a lot of headache simply switching small transaction first before you suffer the same class action payouts like BOA has

USB doesn't just take overdrafts from lower income customers. Rich, poor, doesn't matter... if you overdrafted you overdrafted. They don't profile people before they assign the fee.

In response to Vicki's report: Last month, US Bank hit me with six overdrafts for a total of $210.00. This was against a paycheck deposited in an ATM on a Saturday morning. I paid some bills and bought some stuff at Wal-Mart on Monday afternoon. I did not know that the check had not cleared yet, so almost every transaction resulted in an overdraft. Monday evening, I went to a US Bank ATM and unwittingly withdrew $40.00 {since my balance had been decimated, another overdraft!}. The first I knew of all this was when I looked at the ATM receipt, which showed me a negative balance. On Tuesday morning I went to the bank, and the nice lady there said that my check had cleared after 3 PM on Monday, and since my transactions had gone through before that, they would not forgive any of the overdrafts. My account now has a negative balance of -$167.00! Isn't it amazing that when you use a debit card it instantaneously comes out of your account, but a check can take three days to clear!
BTW: I also have an account with Wells Fargo. On Friday at 2 PM, I deposited a $1000.00 check in the ATM. On Saturday morning at 10 AM, that check had cleared and the funds were available. And that was a personal check from someone, not a company check! Also, if you try to withdraw from a Wells Fargo ATM and you don't have the funds, a notice comes on the screen warning you that you are about to incur an overdraft fee and gives you a chance to cancel the transaction. My question here is if Wells can do this, why can't US Bank. Answer: Because then they can't steal our money for overdraft fees!

Viola,

I understand your situation here. But, at the same time, you have to understand that the bank has to move on to the next business day at some point. This may have changed since I've worked for US Bank, but anything put into an ATM before 6pm your time was considered that same banking day, clearing by about 9 am the next business day. If you got to that ATM after 6pm, it's like putting that check in there on Monday, clearing on Tuesday. (The Federal Reserve is closed on weekends.) Those ATM's have to be cleared out at those designated times. I don't mean to sound rude, but the ATM people aren't going to wait until midnight to collect, transport, and then start processing the tens of thousands of transactions done at the ATM's. They just wouldn't get done. US Bank, and I'm sure pretty much every other bank nowadays, has multiple ways to tell you when your deposit will be cleared. (Internet, phone, text messaging, etc. etc.) Instead of thinking that your bank is looking for ways to hurt you, try to understand what's really going on and what you can do about it.

i am mainly directing this comment to John the BANKER. you do not have to be so rude to someone that obviously didn't realize her deposit would not be completely processed until tuesday. Every word that you said was rude do you think it is your job to come on this website and dump on others? No one cares that you are a banker you may know a little bit more about the way the system works then we do but that does not give you the right to come on a web site and tell someone that basically they are stupid for not realizing the disclosure of their own banking institution and that you wouldn't have been that nice if it were your bank.

I think that the way any bank does their over draft fees is a rip off and they are legally stealing from their own customers but like someone else said it is the law, anyway the government can make money they will.

lighten up this is a web site for peple to vent on about a situation that they believe was wrong i am sure that if something happens to you and you feel wronged you would want to complain to but not have some self absorbed individual come on here and basically say that you were given a gift by doing what little the company did for you.

Jennifer, in your case the problem is your employer. Your employer is not making the direct deposit into your account until late Friday. Most every other employer out there will have those funds available to you in full by Friday morning. If they don't, and you only have $100 available to you, it means the deposit isn't getting to the bank on time - not because of the bank itself.

To answer some of your other thoughts:

1. Overdraft fees are not interest on short-term loans. If they were, the OD fee amount would vary in amount - my guess is that the amount of the fees is very constant. OD fees are a penalty for mismanaging the account - plain and simple and they make you pay for overdrafting the account.

2. There is no case. Courts have ruled over and over again that the bank has the right to not only post whatever fees they wish, they can post your transactions in any order they wish to in order to maximize their fees. They only have to make the disclosures and they do. You're looking for sympathy from a bank - you'd have better luck finding that at the IRS.

3. If you need a loan, you should apply for one legitimately from the bank. If you OD your account, it's not a loan.

4. Your debit card is the EXACT reason why you're in the situation you're in; they are taking you for the fees from using the card when you shouldn't. Would you write a check for $2? How about $5? NO, yet when you use the debit card, that is what you're doing. You say you haven't bounced a check in your life, yet when you overdraft your account with a debit card - that's the same EXACT thing.

Jennifer, managing your account is within your control - not the banks. Stop using your debit card and start using your checks. You'll find you're going to have greater control over your account and decrease the amount of fees. You don't need any legislation for that.....

Best of luck to you.

As was responded to on your OP, there's no case here because nothing illegal was done. The deposit receipt will show what date your deposit will post. Checks go in at processing. Don't spend the money until it's available.

I used to work in the proof department of a major bank, fortunately not the one mentioned here. That part aobut only giving you $100 cash from your check deposit is a FEDERAL bank LAW. It was $300 and they lowered it to $100. ALL branchedc of all banks have to follow certain rules that are set down by the Federal Reserve and there are time limits. We had to ahve our work done and to the sorters by midnight unless some of the work was late. IF the bank gets caught flagrantely breaking the rules _like cashing your check and giving you all cash, then they could ahve their charter pulled.

Why not talk to your employer about getting dierct deposit? And here is a clue IF you went to the teller and deposited yhour check on Monday there would be a hold on it for at least 2 days and you wiould still only get $100. IF you want all cash all at once then you ahve to go to a check cashing place. PAying their fee to do that would be far less then the NSF fees you ahd to pay

I don't know fo ANY employer who pays in cash that isnt under the table.

Currently when I receive my paychecks they are drawn on an East Coast bank. Since I am unable to walk into the branch to cash my check I must: 1. have a bank account that I can deposit into or cash check or 2. take my check to a check cashing place and pay to receive my money.

Now..I have had quite a few instances like the gentlemen mentions where I deposited my check and (even though its the same check that I have been depositing for 3+ years that I receive Friday afternoon or Saturday afternoon) I was only able to get $100 for that entire weekend.

How can it be fair to allow banks record profits from overdraft fees that are never truly overdraft more like short term loans with insane interest attached -simple timing issues that only benefit the bank. How can it be fair practice for the bank to loan me say $5 in some cases for what ends up costing me hundreds. If I didnt have a disabled husband and disabled 2 year old, I might have more time to take on this fight. So far I get so d**n depressed about it that I dont do anything. It doesnt change the fact that it is WRONG! Its the poor people that live right at the line of what they make that are being punished. This is so freaking wrong.. for you to say there is no case makes ME SICK!! There is a case! Your just to stupid to see it!

Legislation needs to be written that forces employers to offer cash or cash equivalent if payroll isnt drawn on a local bank. Why couldnt employers issue debit cards that max out when the funds are gone? Why cant the bank cut off use of your debit card when the balance is depleted? Perhaps a warning message comes up for what price you will have to pay and you can agree or not to it. There is so much technology that is available to avoid RIPPING OFF THE POOR!!!!

I have never bounced a check to my bank...NEVER and yet they rape me of hundreds and hundreds of dollars and I cant even choose to avoid them.

Oh there is a case I assure you.. even if we need to write new law.. so it will be!

Lets get together people.. its all about numbers.

Jennifer

all of the terms and conditions were disclosed to you at the time the account was opened.

Granted, many folks don't read the disclosure provided but is that the bank's fault? As far as my rebuttal being "somewhat unkind", apparently constructive criticism and education isn't appreciated by yourself. I was just actually just trying to keep you from future costly mistakes.

And yes, I stand by my posting that they were very generous in refunding you any of these fees. I wouild've probably refunded a portion as well, provided this was your first instance of overdraft activity, however they had no legal or moral obligation to so so.

Banker John

Viola,

You have no case. Period. This ROR is based upon your lack of understanding of when banks process ATM deposits, and your unwillingness to read your terms of service when you opened your account. It always amazes me how many people here think they have a class action suit when the issue derives from their own actions/inactions.

Had this been the first incidence of US Bank "arranging" my account activity to increase profit (theirs, not mine), it would not have bothered me much. And yes, I understand that I am responsible for understanding (in detail) the business practices of the financial institutions with which I do business (or not).

I still find it rather interesting that as an ordinary citizen I must take extraordinary measures to uncover these practices and to protect myself from them. They do, after all, vary from institution to institution, and from branch to branch within individual institutions. I wonder how an ordinary, reasonable person would even know what questions to ask when, for instance, opening a new checking account. A big to-do is made over the interest that will be paid on an interest-bearing checking account, nothing is mentioned about the banks practices that result in the maximum possible number of overdraft charges at every possible oppportunity.

You provided some useful information about the Federal Reserve/Bank relationship. Is there some reason, I as a consumer, should have to know this to conduct business with a bank? Is this something a new customer should be inquiring about? You have really illustrated the point I am making.

I also sense that you take a certain pleasure in your rather unkind response and consider this to be a part of the problem. The moral decency of those with whom we entrust our money seems to be eroding. Financial service providers such as the one discussed here have become self-serving, pick-pockets. I suppose your response, dear rebuttalist, to a request to have the overdraft charges reversed on an account that has been with US Bank for well over 25 years would have been even more severe. May I ask if the $210.00 charges qualify as money toward continuing education credits?

I spoke with a representative at OCC so that could I better understand how this (and the other horror stories I read about) could have happened. Filing a complaint with them would accomplish nothing UNLESS the action taken by the bank is illegal. All of the complaints I've read were about fees and charges that are, unfortunately, completely legal by the laws in effect today.

I have contacted one of my congressional representatives to encourage adoption of legislation that will set more stringent standards for banking/financial institutions. I am contacting the others and researching current bills on the subject.

I am continuing my efforts to locate others interested in a class-action lawsuit.

Any bank considers Saturday to be actually Monday's workday; in fact items deposited late Friday (usually after 3 pm) are also on Monday's business. This is because items need to be proofed and sent to the Federal Reserve daily. We've just gone to what is called a "remote capture" system that allows us to transmit to the Fed directly (electronically) to now, there is no cutoff time for "day" business, however Saturday is still (and always will) be on next day business as will any transactions made on Sunday's or legal holidays. Any despite your sarcasim (and no, I don't work for US Bank) they were VERY kind in refunding half of your fees as they were not at fault in any way in this matter.