paypal I sold a guitar. The buyer did'nt like it. PayPal ordered it DESTROYED because they said it was COUNTERFEIT. I think it should have been RETURNED to me. Internet

Also you should hope and be happy if and when all ebay and paypal do is close your acct permanently and be barred for life from using there services.

   There's a big difference between a copy and a counterfeit in the guitar biz.  There are guitar manufacturers that make low priced "copies" of popular models.  Many years ago I bought a nice copy of a Fender Strat for about half of what the original was going for.   The big difference was that my guitar did not say "Fender" or "Stratocaster" on it.  It had the actual manufacturers name on it.  I knew I was buying a guitar that was based on the design of the Stratocaster, but there was no question that it was not a Fender product.

   What you tried to pass off is clearly a counterfeit guitar.  The guitar is clearly labelled "Martin" when it is not.   That is illegal and is not standard procedure in the guitar world.  Whoever made this guitar did it with the intention of pulling a fast one on the buyer.   You, in turn, tried to pull a fast one on your Ebay buyer.  You knew it was a counterfeit, yet tried to dance around the issue in the description.   Instead of "beautiful new acoustic guitar" your description should have read "beautiful new counterfeit Martin guitar".  Of course you knew that Ebay would never let you do that because of their policy on counterfeit merchandise.  You tried to skate around that policy and lost.  Too bad.

The only "dingbat" is someone who posts a report like this, and thinks that THEY were wronged.  Isn't it amazing how people continue to dig their own hole when they continue to post.

You have admitted that it was counterfeit(oh I am sorry a "copy").  You did NOT list the item in "good faith".  It was clear to the Buyer, clear to Paypal, and probably clear to just about everyone who reads this report.

You listed it as a "beautiful new acoustic guitar", you did not say that it was a counterfeit(oh I am sorry again a "copy") of a Martin Guitar.  The name Martin on the Headstock was intended for one purpose, to make it appear to be a Martin Guitar.  Had that not been the intention, that name would not have been on there, and you would have made it very clear that it was a copy.

Paypal is not going to return an counterfeit(oh a "copy"..I will get that right at some point), to give you the opportunity to attempt to resell that item to someone else who might be less observant.

Oh and very often E-Bay and Paypal work with law enforcement agencies when dealing with counterfeit merchandise.  So do not be surprised if you have in fact already been reported and are being investigated.

"The item was listed in good faith. Even though is may have been a "copy" there are many sold these days - it's a "way of the world" "

It's illegal in the U.S.  If anyone is a dingbat, bonzo, it's you.

Tell ya what you should do.  Contact ICE and ask them about it.  Don't forget to clarify that it's a "copy" and "a way of the world."  Post their complete response here.

Once ICE informs you that what you sold was LEGAL (they won't but hey, have some fun asking them to tell you it is) you can go back and SUE PAYPAL and the customer who didn't return it.

Why haven't you sued the customer who didn't return it to you?  After all, you have that right!!!  IF you think it's OK to sell conterfeit goods, just file a small claims lawsuit against the customer and PAYPAL and see how far ya get!

LMAO!

Go for it DINGBAT!!!

Well, I can see that YOU are about as much of a dingbat as PayPal.

The item was listed in good faith. Even though is may have been a "copy" there are many sold these days - it's a "way of the world"

It is NOT a matter of the item being a copy - it is a matter that the item SHOULD HAVE BEEN RETURNED TO ME after the buyer received his due.

Can you not understand that?

I hope the customer stills has the guitar and reports you to ICE for importing and selling contraband.

That should get the Feds knocking at your door.

LMAO!  A scammer whining about a ripped off customer getting his/money back!

Oh poor baby!!!

Yes there was fraud, but it appears to be from you.

It was not advertized as a MARTIN although it said Martin on the headstock. It was advertized as a "beautiful new acoustic guitar" The Buyer thought it was a Martin and asked for a refund.

- Gee and why would the buyer think that.  Perhaps you had posted a picture that convinently showed the Headstock with the word "Martin" on it.

Just be lucky that you only lost $450.  Because if E-Bay/Paypal turns this over to the actual company, they could go after you for counterfeiting.  And the "Well I never SAID it was a Martin" will probably get you a nice "roomate" and a view overlooking the excercise yard.

But if you really think that they are wrong, go ahead and file a small claims case against them.  I am sure the judge will be very sympathetic on your claim and give you all the time you want to "explain" your side of the story.