TCF Bank Ripoff I cannot BELIEVE the c**p that this bank gets away with!! I too have caught them charging fees that are not valid and changing the story when it is convenient. Niles Illinois

Lol I just wanted to pass through that running joke in my city as TCF hardly ever explains the acronym so whenever anyone asks its always The Cra ppiest Fu cking bank. Without the spaces of course but censors will be censors.

Ok, so they didn't burn me too bad.  Got a $30 overdraft fee once but left owing nothing and then tried to start a new account ten years later thinking I got rid of my old one. Nope it's still there and its at -2.95 for inactivity. So I just said f**k it and went to a different bank.

I love that too Jim, but I wasn't talking about you. I understand how to use my debit card. What do you want to hear? Honestly, it doesn't matter what's printed where. Nothing anybody can say or prove will make it ok. It's nothing personal.

Nobody here is. There is a difference between educating a consumer on the wrong committed and defending the bank. I do love it though when someone who did an obvious wrong and gets challenged on it, then follows that up with the preposterous idea of defending a bank.

All of those things listed in the rebuttal to the OP are part of the account agreement signed with the bank. Moreover, the policies are universal throughout the industry. In other words, what you did here would have happened to you at this bank, the next one you go to, and the one after that. The truth is, the only difference between one bank to the next is the name. Large national to small regioal banks....they're all the same. Get used to that fact.

I would only add the following: using your debit card is the #1 way a bank makes money off iof consumers. Why? Because most consumers don't understand how a debit card is really their worst enemy. Banks have gotten you to use them out of convenience - yet how convenient is it when it costs you several hundred dollars per month to use them? If you stop using your debit card, stick to cash and checks, maintain an accurate check register, and finally stop relying on any bank's online system to tell you what your account balance is, you'll reduce if not eliminate the OD fees and you'll stop the bank from making money on you.

Nobody here is. There is a difference between educating a consumer on the wrong committed and defending the bank. I do love it though when someone who did an obvious wrong and gets challenged on it, then follows that up with the preposterous idea of defending a bank.

All of those things listed in the rebuttal to the OP are part of the account agreement signed with the bank. Moreover, the policies are universal throughout the industry. In other words, what you did here would have happened to you at this bank, the next one you go to, and the one after that. The truth is, the only difference between one bank to the next is the name. Large national to small regioal banks....they're all the same. Get used to that fact.

I would only add the following: using your debit card is the #1 way a bank makes money off iof consumers. Why? Because most consumers don't understand how a debit card is really their worst enemy. Banks have gotten you to use them out of convenience - yet how convenient is it when it costs you several hundred dollars per month to use them? If you stop using your debit card, stick to cash and checks, maintain an accurate check register, and finally stop relying on any bank's online system to tell you what your account balance is, you'll reduce if not eliminate the OD fees and you'll stop the bank from making money on you.

Nobody here is. There is a difference between educating a consumer on the wrong committed and defending the bank. I do love it though when someone who did an obvious wrong and gets challenged on it, then follows that up with the preposterous idea of defending a bank.

All of those things listed in the rebuttal to the OP are part of the account agreement signed with the bank. Moreover, the policies are universal throughout the industry. In other words, what you did here would have happened to you at this bank, the next one you go to, and the one after that. The truth is, the only difference between one bank to the next is the name. Large national to small regioal banks....they're all the same. Get used to that fact.

I would only add the following: using your debit card is the #1 way a bank makes money off iof consumers. Why? Because most consumers don't understand how a debit card is really their worst enemy. Banks have gotten you to use them out of convenience - yet how convenient is it when it costs you several hundred dollars per month to use them? If you stop using your debit card, stick to cash and checks, maintain an accurate check register, and finally stop relying on any bank's online system to tell you what your account balance is, you'll reduce if not eliminate the OD fees and you'll stop the bank from making money on you.

This is a PS to my last post, as I read a previous rebuttal. This bored person defending a clearly unethical practice should direct this energy to something better researched. The majority of these people are not deadbeats using the banks money sweetie, what rock have you been living under? Evidently you did not recently lose your job or your house. This is the 21st century, TCF used to have the exact time of transaction right in the account summary but conveniently removed that information about 6 months ago. I have years of printed proof that they are RIPPING OFF their valued customers. The government needs a generic response to their pleas for mercy. It is the golden rule.

From May 7, 2009 thru June TCF bank took $595 for NSF charges on $629.71 of debits, rearranging the pending times and changing the order of transactions to their advantage therefore making 94.5% profit. I have direct deposit, but they turned me down for overdraft protection because of my credit score. Hello. If there is a class action lawsuit - count me in.

Banks are not non-profit organizations. They make money from your fees. They make money from the interest you pay on your loans. It's really very simple to understand.

That being said, TCF wouldn't mak any money off of you at all if youdidn't write checks totalling more than the amount of money in your account.

TCF doesn't just decide to clear your check the day you write it. TCF has no idea that you write a check until the person or company your wrote it to deposits it in THEIR bank, and then THEIR bank sends TCF the information to collect the funds. A check is merely a piece of paper until it gets deposited. We aren't psychic. No one knows you wrote it until it's deposited. If you think about it for a minute or so, you'd see how ludaris that accusation is.

Being overdrawn sucks. Having checks returned sucks. I've been there, done that. I also worked at Wells Fargo for a year and a half, and now TCF for a year. I've banked at both places (currently TCF) and also US Bank. TCF doesn't do anything any differently that any other bank, except maybe hold check deposits longer than some of their competitors. And you want to know why that is? I hope you're sitting down, this might make you angry:

TCF opens checking accounts for people who, without TCF, probably wouldn't be able to open a checking account anywhere, period, because of being in Chexsystems, having poor credit, etc. These are the people who overdraw constantly because they don't know how to manage their bank account. These are the people that deposit bad checks that get returned, overdrawing their account, and then are abandoned by the customer after they've successfully rippedoff the bank. These are customers who don't realize that there is not a little man behind a curtain monitoring each individual account and personally making a phone call to a customer each time they think that they might overdraw.

These people are the majority of TCF customers.

TCF holds deposits as long as the federal government allows them to TO PROTECT ITSELF. You don't think the bank should protect itself? You think that I, and every other TCF employee that you seem to hate so much because "THEY" took money from you should be working for free, not charging you any fees for using TCF's money? You think you shouldn't have to pay fees for negative transactions? Consider it a high-interest loan. You use money that you don't have, you're charged interest.

For the love of Pete, BE NICE TO THE CUSTOMER SERVICE REPS. You think you're the first person on the phone with them, screaming at THEM for something you don't like about their employer? These poor people get paid s**t money to sit in a moldy basement getting screamed at for 8 hours a day by people who don't care to read their terms and conditions. I was called a "stupid t**t" because someone didn't like that we had a daily ATM withdrawal limit. I was told I needed to get professional help from some screaming b***h because I needed her to verify her address togive her account informaiton over the phone. This is a daily occurance. Thank god I was promoted and don't have to be in that environment anymore, but dear god, what is wrong with people like you?

Period. NSF fees are only as profitable to banks as their customers allow.

Linda -- you say that you would want the larger check returned unpaid and have the smaller checks paid to incur just one fee. But if you didn't spend more than you had, the order checks are processed (highest to lowest, lowest to highest, sideways, backwards, left to right, etc) wouldn't be an issue.

I agree that it seems banks process debits highest to lowest to maximize their fees, but it's just not an issue if you don't spend more than you have and you use your own accounting to know what your balance is (as opposed to using online or ATM balances, because those don't show pending transactions).

And items aren't presented at various times in the day, they come in batches, and batches are reconciled in the evening (my bank does it after midnight). There are no maniacal bank tellers in dark back rooms going through every single debit and ordering them to maximize the amount of fees you're charged.

The bottom line is that it's YOUR responsibility to know your balance, and YOUR responsibility to knwo when to stop using your debit card and/or writing checks.

And, no, I do not work for a bank and, yes, I have bounced a check or 2, but it was my fault, and I did not go to some website trying to put it off on the bank. Do I think banks are our friends? No, but, in this instance, I fail to see the ripoff in your report, and would say you have absolutely no legal recourse.

That said, if your bank doesn't post cash deposits made after 2 pm until the next business day, I'd find another bank. My bank will post cash deposits made up to 7 pm instantly.

Dear 5/24,

It just shows what jerks people can be. You do noyt know me from ADAM, and to accuse me of making up the fact that my wire transfer comment was a "STORY"..... I will have you know, you JERK, that I DID get the fees refunded because the bank DID show my wire transfer as pending for 2 days.. but," oh, MY , Mr. customer, THAT has never happened before..." Just goes to prove my point that this bank takes ADVANTAGE of people. That is why I CHECK MY ACCOUNT EVERY DAY on the internet, and PRINT the statement, that way I have PROOF that TCF is mismanaging my account NOT ME...

How dare you.....

PS - Thank you 5/25 Bank Manager, Thank you!!!

Dear 5/24,

It just shows what jerks people can be. You do noyt know me from ADAM, and to accuse me of making up the fact that my wire transfer comment was a "STORY"..... I will have you know, you JERK, that I DID get the fees refunded because the bank DID show my wire transfer as pending for 2 days.. but," oh, MY , Mr. customer, THAT has never happened before..." Just goes to prove my point that this bank takes ADVANTAGE of people. That is why I CHECK MY ACCOUNT EVERY DAY on the internet, and PRINT the statement, that way I have PROOF that TCF is mismanaging my account NOT ME...

How dare you.....

PS - Thank you 5/25 Bank Manager, Thank you!!!

Dear 5/24,

It just shows what jerks people can be. You do noyt know me from ADAM, and to accuse me of making up the fact that my wire transfer comment was a "STORY"..... I will have you know, you JERK, that I DID get the fees refunded because the bank DID show my wire transfer as pending for 2 days.. but," oh, MY , Mr. customer, THAT has never happened before..." Just goes to prove my point that this bank takes ADVANTAGE of people. That is why I CHECK MY ACCOUNT EVERY DAY on the internet, and PRINT the statement, that way I have PROOF that TCF is mismanaging my account NOT ME...

How dare you.....

PS - Thank you 5/25 Bank Manager, Thank you!!!

Dear 5/24,

It just shows what jerks people can be. You do noyt know me from ADAM, and to accuse me of making up the fact that my wire transfer comment was a "STORY"..... I will have you know, you JERK, that I DID get the fees refunded because the bank DID show my wire transfer as pending for 2 days.. but," oh, MY , Mr. customer, THAT has never happened before..." Just goes to prove my point that this bank takes ADVANTAGE of people. That is why I CHECK MY ACCOUNT EVERY DAY on the internet, and PRINT the statement, that way I have PROOF that TCF is mismanaging my account NOT ME...

How dare you.....

PS - Thank you 5/25 Bank Manager, Thank you!!!

I managed a bank for 10 years and did see many instances which the bank charged customers unfair and unecessary fees. The were alot of people who did mis-manage their account. However, the bank makes alot of money off of fees that in most cases customers just pay even though they don't agree with it and in many cases was the banks error. I agree with Linda that a customer would benefit from having only 1 big check returned eventhough it may be a house payment etc., as opposed to the bank cashing it first and then having 15 other checks bounce all over town. The bank I managed did the same thing and it is done with the intent to make money. They would rather take a few complaints and refund money as opposed to changing this practice because it is a big money maker.

My advice to anyone dealing with a bank situation like this is to start complaining up the chain. An assistant manager will most likely hold their ground. At that point ask for the manager. Explain the situation calmly and tell them exactly what you want (refund of fees). The manager has the power to refund all fees. If the mistake is an error you made then be willing to meet half way. If it is clearly the banks error or you feel this was an unethical practice of charging then request full refund. If the manager refuses to budge then request the name and phone number of the district manager or supervisor and calmly explain to the manager that you are not satisfied and you intend to call the his or her supervisor. At this point you might get the manager to change their position and unwillingly refund your fees. The fact is the manager does not want you calling their supervisor. They know the distict manager will in the majority of the cases side with you because they are to busy to be tied up with your complaint. This is the way the business is run. The most important thing I can stress is be calm and explain your complaint in a polite but very upset and firm tone of voice. We have actually had people arrested for disorderly conduct because their complaint turned into threats towards me and my tellers.

Hope this helps,

I managed a bank for 10 years and did see many instances which the bank charged customers unfair and unecessary fees. The were alot of people who did mis-manage their account. However, the bank makes alot of money off of fees that in most cases customers just pay even though they don't agree with it and in many cases was the banks error. I agree with Linda that a customer would benefit from having only 1 big check returned eventhough it may be a house payment etc., as opposed to the bank cashing it first and then having 15 other checks bounce all over town. The bank I managed did the same thing and it is done with the intent to make money. They would rather take a few complaints and refund money as opposed to changing this practice because it is a big money maker.

My advice to anyone dealing with a bank situation like this is to start complaining up the chain. An assistant manager will most likely hold their ground. At that point ask for the manager. Explain the situation calmly and tell them exactly what you want (refund of fees). The manager has the power to refund all fees. If the mistake is an error you made then be willing to meet half way. If it is clearly the banks error or you feel this was an unethical practice of charging then request full refund. If the manager refuses to budge then request the name and phone number of the district manager or supervisor and calmly explain to the manager that you are not satisfied and you intend to call the his or her supervisor. At this point you might get the manager to change their position and unwillingly refund your fees. The fact is the manager does not want you calling their supervisor. They know the distict manager will in the majority of the cases side with you because they are to busy to be tied up with your complaint. This is the way the business is run. The most important thing I can stress is be calm and explain your complaint in a polite but very upset and firm tone of voice. We have actually had people arrested for disorderly conduct because their complaint turned into threats towards me and my tellers.

Hope this helps,

I managed a bank for 10 years and did see many instances which the bank charged customers unfair and unecessary fees. The were alot of people who did mis-manage their account. However, the bank makes alot of money off of fees that in most cases customers just pay even though they don't agree with it and in many cases was the banks error. I agree with Linda that a customer would benefit from having only 1 big check returned eventhough it may be a house payment etc., as opposed to the bank cashing it first and then having 15 other checks bounce all over town. The bank I managed did the same thing and it is done with the intent to make money. They would rather take a few complaints and refund money as opposed to changing this practice because it is a big money maker.

My advice to anyone dealing with a bank situation like this is to start complaining up the chain. An assistant manager will most likely hold their ground. At that point ask for the manager. Explain the situation calmly and tell them exactly what you want (refund of fees). The manager has the power to refund all fees. If the mistake is an error you made then be willing to meet half way. If it is clearly the banks error or you feel this was an unethical practice of charging then request full refund. If the manager refuses to budge then request the name and phone number of the district manager or supervisor and calmly explain to the manager that you are not satisfied and you intend to call the his or her supervisor. At this point you might get the manager to change their position and unwillingly refund your fees. The fact is the manager does not want you calling their supervisor. They know the distict manager will in the majority of the cases side with you because they are to busy to be tied up with your complaint. This is the way the business is run. The most important thing I can stress is be calm and explain your complaint in a polite but very upset and firm tone of voice. We have actually had people arrested for disorderly conduct because their complaint turned into threats towards me and my tellers.

Hope this helps,

This is proof that you can't please everyone. No matter what order the bank decides to post its transactions there will always be someone that it upsets. But if you keep careful track of your account posting order doesn't matter. It only when a consumer overdraws an account that posting order comes into play. The bank made a decision to do it that way and there are a lot of other banks that do it the same way.

As far as cut off times here's whats happens. Tellers have to send all their deposits and withdrawal into the central processing center to be processed and posted to your account. They have to cut off the transactions early so they can make deadlines. Otherwise the bank would never catch up. The bank has hundreds upon hundreds of transactions that need to be processed. So they stop them early. ATMs have later cut off times because their information is sent in electronically.

Now for your complaint about incoming checks. As I said before. The banks receive checks in large batchs (a batch contains around 200 checks and the bank can receive a couple hundred of those batchs) that need to be processed and posted to accounts. The banks receive those batchs during the day from the federal reserve. So the checks that a bank receives during the day are processed and posted to your account as a transaction for that day. So during the day the banks receives a huge number of these batchs and will wait until the nightly processing run to start processing these checks. They then update the account all at once.

It all boils down to managing your account correctly. Don't write any checks until the funds have become available. Don't make transactions on your check unless your own registry says you have enough money for it. Your receiving fees for your mismanagement of your account.

I do not believe you when you say they held a wire transfer as pending for 2 days. There would have been no reason to so unless you can show proof they did then I do believe you're making it up. Your opinion is based on the fact you got busted mismanaging your account.

Please read this page : http://www.tcfexpress.com/CustomerService/customer_service_avoid_overdraft.jsp

Also notice the last paragraph. That doesn't look like fine print to me.

In response to the rebuttal that I recieved; YES, actually I WOULD like one check returned instead of 3 paid with fees - OR, at the VERY least, PAY THEM IN THE ORDER THEY WERE RECIEVED. It amazes me that EVERYTHING is conveneintly posted @ 9;59pm. And WHY does the business day at the bank for the CUSTOMERS end at 2pm (like when you make a deposit, but the CHECKS applied @ 9;59 PM count as THAT DAYS business??? Because it benefits the BANK of course...

And in response to the manner in which I have dealt with this bank, I am ALWAYS courteous until it gets STUPID. Do you know the other day, they charged me an overdraft fee because they showed a WIRE TRANSFER of my PAYROLL CHECK as PENDING for 2 days. Had I not been dilligent, I would have had to pay yet another $33.00 for something that was incorrect on the BANKS part. And the problem IS... If you get an overdraft fee that is NOT valid (such as the one mentioned above), you don't KNOW that you are using money you don't have.

Another nice little trick I noticed is that they will LET you pay for something on your debit card - even if you DO NOT have funds in your account. You have to REQUESTin writing that they don't allow you to do it! And believe me, that information is in the FINE PRINT !!!! Why would you think that when using your DEBIT card that the BANK would allow you to use funds that you do not really have !!! If THAT is not a setup, then I dont know what is...

I cant imagine how much money this bank has made on people who are too AFRAID to challenge these erronious charges, or have NO IDEA that they even have an option! Older people, or immigrants, etc, etc, etc....

I still stand on my opinion that this bank SUCKS !!!

In response to the rebuttal that I recieved; YES, actually I WOULD like one check returned instead of 3 paid with fees - OR, at the VERY least, PAY THEM IN THE ORDER THEY WERE RECIEVED. It amazes me that EVERYTHING is conveneintly posted @ 9;59pm. And WHY does the business day at the bank for the CUSTOMERS end at 2pm (like when you make a deposit, but the CHECKS applied @ 9;59 PM count as THAT DAYS business??? Because it benefits the BANK of course...

And in response to the manner in which I have dealt with this bank, I am ALWAYS courteous until it gets STUPID. Do you know the other day, they charged me an overdraft fee because they showed a WIRE TRANSFER of my PAYROLL CHECK as PENDING for 2 days. Had I not been dilligent, I would have had to pay yet another $33.00 for something that was incorrect on the BANKS part. And the problem IS... If you get an overdraft fee that is NOT valid (such as the one mentioned above), you don't KNOW that you are using money you don't have.

Another nice little trick I noticed is that they will LET you pay for something on your debit card - even if you DO NOT have funds in your account. You have to REQUESTin writing that they don't allow you to do it! And believe me, that information is in the FINE PRINT !!!! Why would you think that when using your DEBIT card that the BANK would allow you to use funds that you do not really have !!! If THAT is not a setup, then I dont know what is...

I cant imagine how much money this bank has made on people who are too AFRAID to challenge these erronious charges, or have NO IDEA that they even have an option! Older people, or immigrants, etc, etc, etc....

I still stand on my opinion that this bank SUCKS !!!

If you read the terms and conditions of your account you would have seen that you did agree to them clearning the checks and any items that post to your account in the order of highest to lowest or any order the bank chooses. The only time that posting order EVER becomes a problem is when the account holder has overdrafted their account.

Here is a huge tip to prevent receiving multiple overdrafts due to pending order. Keep a strict registry in which you do not write a check or complete a transaction that will overdraw the account. Also do not engage in check floating (#1 it illegal to do so) because it will come back to bite you in the rear.

Now the main reason the posting order is highest to lowest is because higher amounts usually have more importance (rent, mortgage, auto payments, etc.) Now tell me. If you had to receive an overdraft fee. Would you be more willing to pay for 2 overdraft fees because the bank paid all of the items ($1500 mortgage check, $100 cable bill check and $5 lunch check) or would you rather it returned the $1500 check and charged you 1 fee so you would receive the least amount of overdraft charges.

Also the banks receive checks in large batchs (a batch contains around 200 checks and the bank can receive a couple hundred of those batchs) that need to be processed and posted to accounts. The banks receive those batchs during the day from the federal reserve. So the checks that a bank receives during the day are processed and posted to your account as a transaction for that day.

I'd hate to say this but don't completely trust what your bank shows online. It is ment as a reference and nothing more. The bank can only show what they've received. If they haven't received the information then they don't know about it. So they can't update your account.

If you keep a strict register that includes EVERYTHING that you charge and you know about potential fees you could receive (i.e. withdrawing from an ATM, ordering a box of checks, etc.) Then you will not run into these problems. If an error occurs then ask plenty of questions. Remain calm and polite when dealing with others and people will be more willing to help. When you deal with 100s of calls a day from customers who do nothing but yell and scream you tend to become immune to it. But when a customer calls who is wanting to ask questions and learn what is going on it truely is a change of pace and the Customer Service Reps of any company will always respond more positive to someone who is nice from the beginning.