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Report: #1471938

Complaint Review: Paypal - San Jose California

  • Submitted:
  • Updated:
  • Reported By: MikeNo — Riverside California United States
  • Author Confirmed What's this?
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Paypal Changed my balance multiple times without any record. Support is completely incompetent and ignores the problem. San Jose California

*Author of original report: response #2

*Consumer Comment: Set the date range

*Consumer Comment: Still not exactly right...

*Author of original report: response to "Robert"

*Consumer Comment: Incorrect

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I wish I could be part of a class action lawsuit against them. Everything about this has been so shady.

  1. There is no balance history anywhere that I have access to (desktop browser). There is only transaction history and current balance. This is extremely shady and allows all the BS that follows.
  2. I'm watching my balance as I'm selling things on ebay because I'm going to pay for something close to $300. When I'm almost there my current balance drops about $70 without there being any new transactions.
  3. Paypal notifies me by email that an ebay buyer made a fraudulent chargeback with his credit card. The item was sold for $23, and paypal says there's a chargeback fee of $20. Nothing close to $70. And neither of those items showed on the activity page.
  4. I contact Paypal support via the site's message center. They tell me to call. I call and they tell me they'll pass it on to someone who will look into it and email me.
  5. The $20 chargeback fee gets refunded, again without any record/new activity listed. My balance simply changes again.
  6. I never get an email. So I send another message. They refer me to the merchant support site. I contact that support site and they ignore the problem of the missing money and tell me I need to upgrade to a business account to be able to see my balance history, and tell me to call support. I call support again and they tell me I need to put in my social security number in order to view my balance history. That seems VERY sketchy so I do a google search and see warnings about that. I put it in temporarily and it has no impact. You can't remove it, so I change it. I call support again and tell them that adding my social did nothing. The person is totally incompetent, makes nonsensical & contradictory statements, has no access to anything. Either speaks terrible english and doesn't comprehend anything, or is using that as a farcical excuse to not help me. I ask to speak to someone else, they put me on hold for 40 minutes then disconnect me.

Looking at the information they referred me to while on the phone with support, they retroactively changed my balance so that it was never close to $300.

I have disconnected paypal from my ebay, and will stop using paypal for other websites. This is probably the shadiest experience I've had with any business.

I called the police to report the chargeback fraudster and they said my only option is a civil suit. So I'm thinking to file a civil suit against both the fraudster and paypal at the same time. Ebay does nothing about chargeback fraud.

Paypal disputed the chargeback with the fraudster's bank on my behalf with the proof of delivery I gave them, but this person is regularly doing this to multiple sellers and Paypal refuses to do anything.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 01/21/2019 07:59 PM and is a permanent record located here: https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/paypal/san-jose-california-95131/paypal-changed-my-balance-multiple-times-without-any-record-support-is-completely-incomp-1471938. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year. Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report. READ: Foreign websites steal our content

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
2Author
3Consumer
0Employee/Owner

#5 Author of original report

response #2

AUTHOR: Michael - (United States)

POSTED: Wednesday, January 23, 2019

"How do you know? You somehow think you are entitled to know the inner working of Paypal fraud department.  No company is going to disclose to the general public what specific accounts they terminated and the reasons why." 

Because the account is still active, and has done fraudulent chargebacks to numerous ebay sellers. We can see from the feedback left.

 

"So answer this. How many chargebacks is allowed before they freeze your account. As I mentioned a consumer has the legal rights to dispute a transaction per FEDERAL banking regulations. Say you had disputed 2 transactions, are you a person doing fraudlent chargebacks or did you just run into a couple of fraudlent sellers? Would you think that they were justified or being too strict because you aren't committing fraud?"

In my case I gave proof that the person who filed the chargeback did so fraudulently. This is completely different from a limit on justified/regular chargebacks.

 

"And per your report that is what happend. So what is the issue and why did you state you are still going to file a suit..."

 

No that is not what happened. Stop wasting my time. Go re-read it if you need to.

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#4 Consumer Comment

Set the date range

AUTHOR: Chaiya - (United States)

POSTED: Wednesday, January 23, 2019

From what I see a message with an exclamation mark in your image, the detail might be hidden because you select the date range over 31 days? That's why it displayed only summary. Could you try to set the date range to be within a month or so? You might be able to see the detail of what's actually going on.

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#3 Consumer Comment

Still not exactly right...

AUTHOR: Robert - (United States)

POSTED: Wednesday, January 23, 2019

I was referring to the fact that Paypal refuses to do anything about people who regularly engage in chargeback fraud.
- How do you know? You somehow think you are entitled to know the inner working of Paypal fraud department.  No company is going to disclose to the general public what specific accounts they terminated and the reasons why.  

There are many options, such as freezing their accounts until the money is returned, removing the money from their account by changing their balance (as they did to me), terminating their accounts, etc..
- So answer this. How many chargebacks is allowed before they freeze your account. As I mentioned a consumer has the legal rights to dispute a transaction per FEDERAL banking regulations. Say you had disputed 2 transactions, are you a person doing fraudlent chargebacks or did you just run into a couple of fraudlent sellers? Would you think that they were justified or being too strict because you aren't committing fraud?

Furthermore, during my research, I learned that Robert's statements about chargeback fraud are erroenous. I saw numerous complaints about Paypal refusing to do anything about buyers committing chargeback fraud, and even saw an article where ebay has cut ties with Paypal and recommends sellers to use alternatives due to those alternatives being free of chargeback fraud.

You can believe what you want as from your experience as the seller you had this issue. However, there are plenty of complaints from the sellers perspective. Just from a couple of reports on this site I quickly found over the last couple of months.

https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ebay/san-jose-ca-95125-5904/ebay-ebaypaypal-no-consumer-protection-for-fraud-selling-practice-san-jose-ca-1470010
A direct quote from that review "Seller would not return or refund for me. Ebay or Paypal would not protect me at all".

https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/mindinsolecom/unknown-calif-unknown/mindinsolecom-i-placed-order-through-paypal-big-mistake-since-they-will-never-back-you-u-1468251


- A direct quote from that review - "I placed order through PAYPAL (big mistake since they will never back you up with a dispute)"

4. Robert ignores the missing money, just like Paypal support did.
- NO..I did not ignore it. I am just telling you that you have to see the detail a different way. I am not PP Tech Support and if for what ever reason you can't see the detail that is an issue. The point is that I think this is more of a case of "user error" than anything from PayPal as there would be thousands complaints about a balance issue.

"if PayPal denied the dispute and returned all of the money you have no action against the fraudster since you were made whole"

Good. That's exactly what should have happened. Rather than forcing people to submit civil suits which would end up costing more than the amount that was stollen.
- And per your report that is what happend. So what is the issue and why did you state you are still going to file a suit...



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#2 Author of original report

response to "Robert"

AUTHOR: Michael - (United States)

POSTED: Tuesday, January 22, 2019

Not sure who the "Robert" person is, who has responded, but their response is very similar to the responses I got from Paypal support, in that it is dishonest, and misrepresents the issues.

1. The screenshot provided is the only evidence I have of the balance changes that occurred. I did not upload a screenshot of the "activity" page because it has private information. I could black it out and upload it but I don't see a way to add more images. Again, the "activity" page shows no balance history, thus the only use of uploading it would be to show the fact that it doesn't show balance history.

2. "Robert" claims the "Transaction Tab" has more details. It does not. It's unfortunate that I cannot add more screenshots to show that he is wrong/lying.

3. Robert's statement that mine is contradictory demonstrates the standard misrepresentation/misinterpretation that Paypal's representatives engage in. When I said "Paypal refuses to do anything" I was referring to the fact that Paypal refuses to do anything about people who regularly engage in chargeback fraud. There are many options, such as freezing their accounts until the money is returned, removing the money from their account by changing their balance (as they did to me), terminating their accounts, etc.. Instead, Paypal allows these people to regularly engage in chargeback fraud against multiple ebay sellers without any consequence.

Furthermore, during my research, I learned that Robert's statements about chargeback fraud are erroenous. I saw numerous complaints about Paypal refusing to do anything about buyers committing chargeback fraud, and even saw an article where ebay has cut ties with Paypal and recommends sellers to use alternatives due to those alternatives being free of chargeback fraud.

4. Robert ignores the missing money, just like Paypal support did.

"if PayPal denied the dispute and returned all of the money you have no action against the fraudster since you were made whole"

Good. That's exactly what should have happened. Rather than forcing people to submit civil suits which would end up costing more than the amount that was stollen.

 

Actually it looks like I might be able to upload more photos. So I will if possible.

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#1 Consumer Comment

Incorrect

AUTHOR: Robert - (United States)

POSTED: Tuesday, January 22, 2019

There is no balance history anywhere that I have access to (desktop browser). There is only transaction history and current balance. This is extremely shady and allows all the BS that follows.
- Incorrect. Your image shows you are running a Financial SUMMARY report. This does not contain ANY detail inforation. If you want to see the detail select the Transaction Tab.

Paypal disputed the chargeback with the fraudster's bank on my behalf with the proof of delivery I gave them, but this person is regularly doing this to multiple sellers and Paypal refuses to do anything
- That statement is contradictory.  You say that payPal refuses to do anything..but in your own words once you provided proof of delivery they disputed the chargeback with the bank.  Until you provided proof to them they had no idea if the dispute was valid or not. 

As for the Chargeback unfortunatly is the "cost of doing business". You will always have scammers who try and play the system. The "dispute" process per banking and Federal regulations is really one more of one that puts the burden on the seller to prove that the transaction was valid.  Banks while they have some leeway, are really bound by certain procedures that they have to follow.   The internet opens this up quite a bit more as many know that it is a lot harder(costlier) to go after someone who isn't local  over small amounts.  

For every buyer that tries to play the system, there are sellers that do the same thing.  For every complaint you have that says they "never" do anything to support the seller, you will see a complaint that says they "never" do anything to support the buyer.

The police were correct, this is nothing more than a Civil matter. However, if PayPal denied the dispute and returned all of the money you have no action against the fraudster since you were made whole.

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