Just Brakes Ripoff false inspection report Colorado Springs Colorado

    "I dont' know how anyone can claim to be in the automotive service industry and not know what a flag hour is...  Seriously...  A flag hour is the book hour value associated with a job."



I have never heard of this term We call them T.U.'s Or "Time Unit" because we are paid in thents of an hour like 1.9 hours or 1.7 hours even .1 hours.

As a ford specialized and certified technician I feel the new to shed some light on what was said and how things could have been misconstrued. The problem with working on automobiles is that more often than not there can be multiple views on what needs to be done with the vehicle. As for the pads and rotors, what people don't realize now a days is that cars work on very tight specifications. Most parts on cars now operate with clearences in the tenths or thousandths of a millimeter. Tho one mechanic says they are still in spec doesn't mean that the mechanic at Just Brakes was wrong. Most rotors have a flexibility of about .05mm. The rotor may still be within spec but it may be very close to the point to which the wouldn't be. It's not uncommon for a mechanic to recommend new parts knowing that even tho they are good at the moment, replacing them now will save you money down the road. As for the wheel cylinders it's not umcommon for them to loosen up after being messed with. The just bakes tech may have been looking to prevent future problems by replacing soon to be needed parts whereas the other tech was just looking at the current situation. It's just important to think of both sides and realize why a mechanic may be giving you the answers your receiving

I would like to see if someone actually got a brake job from Just Brakes for $99. I dont care if its a "good" or "bad" brake job. It really doesnt matter at this point. I'm not even focused on the fact that it IS a brake job. The issue that rubs me the wrong way (and so many others) is that this is plain and simple false advertising. Or an even better term is bait and switch. What the product or service being rendered is, is completely moot. This business offers something that they NEVER deliver. Good, bad, or otherwise.

To many times the fact that "$99 is not a viable price for brake job" comes up on these Just Brake threads (usually brought up by the same person). Yet nobody seems to center on the real issue at hand........

Did they advertise something at a certain price?

YES!

Do they ever honor that price?

NO!

I dont care if its a brake job, brain surgery, or a can of creamed corn. These guys are ripping people off....period.


Oh and Robbie...get off your high horse. Dont try and switch this and ignore what you do as policy. You pulled stunts like this with your Pat Benatar rant. You pulled stunts like this with your Google rant. You pulled stunts like this with your Joseph McCarthy was hero rant. You pulled stunts like this on numerous Circuit City rants (complete with the "customer is always wrong" statment included) Face it....YOU chased me down. Not the other way around.

I still stand by my statement that you obviously got squished pretty hard at your shop for doing something wrong against consumers for you to badger them at every turn and maintain your famous quote of "the customer is always wrong" (face it you said it...and believe it!). So what was it Rob? Ripping people off for brake jobs? Did the state of Florida come down on you too hard for snaking to much on an oxygen sensor? All you do is bash consumers at every turn and then when the crys get so loud, you try and duck into the shadows with some pathetic line like "I was just trying to help". Get real. Your obviously a very unhappy person to vent so much hatred towards your own bread and butter. And the fact that now you have to resort to bringing up someones sexuality on a brake job post is pretty good proof of that fact.

I would like to see if someone actually got a brake job from Just Brakes for $99. I dont care if its a "good" or "bad" brake job. It really doesnt matter at this point. I'm not even focused on the fact that it IS a brake job. The issue that rubs me the wrong way (and so many others) is that this is plain and simple false advertising. Or an even better term is bait and switch. What the product or service being rendered is, is completely moot. This business offers something that they NEVER deliver. Good, bad, or otherwise.

To many times the fact that "$99 is not a viable price for brake job" comes up on these Just Brake threads (usually brought up by the same person). Yet nobody seems to center on the real issue at hand........

Did they advertise something at a certain price?

YES!

Do they ever honor that price?

NO!

I dont care if its a brake job, brain surgery, or a can of creamed corn. These guys are ripping people off....period.


Oh and Robbie...get off your high horse. Dont try and switch this and ignore what you do as policy. You pulled stunts like this with your Pat Benatar rant. You pulled stunts like this with your Google rant. You pulled stunts like this with your Joseph McCarthy was hero rant. You pulled stunts like this on numerous Circuit City rants (complete with the "customer is always wrong" statment included) Face it....YOU chased me down. Not the other way around.

I still stand by my statement that you obviously got squished pretty hard at your shop for doing something wrong against consumers for you to badger them at every turn and maintain your famous quote of "the customer is always wrong" (face it you said it...and believe it!). So what was it Rob? Ripping people off for brake jobs? Did the state of Florida come down on you too hard for snaking to much on an oxygen sensor? All you do is bash consumers at every turn and then when the crys get so loud, you try and duck into the shadows with some pathetic line like "I was just trying to help". Get real. Your obviously a very unhappy person to vent so much hatred towards your own bread and butter. And the fact that now you have to resort to bringing up someones sexuality on a brake job post is pretty good proof of that fact.

I would like to see if someone actually got a brake job from Just Brakes for $99. I dont care if its a "good" or "bad" brake job. It really doesnt matter at this point. I'm not even focused on the fact that it IS a brake job. The issue that rubs me the wrong way (and so many others) is that this is plain and simple false advertising. Or an even better term is bait and switch. What the product or service being rendered is, is completely moot. This business offers something that they NEVER deliver. Good, bad, or otherwise.

To many times the fact that "$99 is not a viable price for brake job" comes up on these Just Brake threads (usually brought up by the same person). Yet nobody seems to center on the real issue at hand........

Did they advertise something at a certain price?

YES!

Do they ever honor that price?

NO!

I dont care if its a brake job, brain surgery, or a can of creamed corn. These guys are ripping people off....period.


Oh and Robbie...get off your high horse. Dont try and switch this and ignore what you do as policy. You pulled stunts like this with your Pat Benatar rant. You pulled stunts like this with your Google rant. You pulled stunts like this with your Joseph McCarthy was hero rant. You pulled stunts like this on numerous Circuit City rants (complete with the "customer is always wrong" statment included) Face it....YOU chased me down. Not the other way around.

I still stand by my statement that you obviously got squished pretty hard at your shop for doing something wrong against consumers for you to badger them at every turn and maintain your famous quote of "the customer is always wrong" (face it you said it...and believe it!). So what was it Rob? Ripping people off for brake jobs? Did the state of Florida come down on you too hard for snaking to much on an oxygen sensor? All you do is bash consumers at every turn and then when the crys get so loud, you try and duck into the shadows with some pathetic line like "I was just trying to help". Get real. Your obviously a very unhappy person to vent so much hatred towards your own bread and butter. And the fact that now you have to resort to bringing up someones sexuality on a brake job post is pretty good proof of that fact.

Thank you Jeff

I went through a few pages of the links, and none of them were from the South. They were nearly all from the North and Midwest.

Since "What is a "flag hour"?
There are mechanics getting paid an hourly rate, commission from the ticket, flat rate, and a combination of the above. I have never heard of a "flag hour"." was the question I asked, thank you for being civil and giving me the answer. I never expected any better from that Hoser in Canaduh, nor from the individual in Pennsyltucky.

I asked my buddies at a couple dealerships if they had ever heard of the term. They all said no. I asked other shop owners and mechs the same question. Again, no. For the record, one of them is from Pennsyltucky, so it must not be that common a term.

I went to the Chilton site...www.labortime.com...and typed in "flag hours". It came back with no answer. I did the same with Mitchell. Same answer.

I guess I learned something new today. That's more than some will ever accomplish in a lifetime.

But again, thanks Jeff. As anyone can see, my response to Jennifer was NOT degrading in any way. As for Benjo, he's just a real hoot.

Sorry for getting off the subject of the brake job, but the mysterious flag-hour actually exists.

Some shops pay their techs hrly + commission on a certain labor amount and some pay hrly or by flag hours. This is how it was at a shop I worked at.

The tech had his hourly rate(might be $7/hr) and flag rate (might be $15/hr). For the tech to get his $15/hr he/she would have to flag at least, lets say, 30 flag hrs(labor hrs). Lets say the tech worked 40 hrs but only flagged 25 hrs...then he/she would only get paid his hrly rate...if he/she flagged 30 or more hrs then he/she would get their flag rate.

Robert,

This is a commonly used term, and IS in several results in a web search on Yahoo.

When you type it in, do it like this:

"Flag Hour" , NOT Flag Hour

This technique is very important to get the proper results.

This is the result I got on my first search:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=slv1-&p=%22Flag%20Hour%22

Different terms for things are used by different generations, and in different parts of the country. It is an older term that newer generations rarely use. I was familiar with it growing up in the 70's.

I went to google and typed in "flag hours" and the first hit was automotive and so were many more even on the first page.

I understand the when most people search they would just search flag hours which will bring up flags and hours. But to find "flag hours" you have to put it in between "***" quotation marks.. just some help.. not trying to insult or anything.

Ben ... Enough Already

Once again you chime in on a subject but miss the point. Robert is not defending Brake plus or Just Brakes ... He is trying to protect the industry. Its hard to teach consumers proper car care when every customer with a 10 pc tool set claims to be a tech and thinks they know how much everything cost and how to do it. Yes this site is for consumers but at the same time accept some responsability for your own mistake. Did you have to go to Just Brakes? Nope. Did phone shop for the lowest price ? Yup. Did you make your decision based on price? Yes again. You the consumer decided to go for the price gimmick instead of paying for quality service. And when it blows up in your face you come here and complain.

I dont condone the selling strategy at Brake Plus but hey...$ 99.99 four wheel brake job...it is what it is. nothing more nothing less.

Your twisted affection for me is disturbing at best. I have yet to understand why you need to go into every thread I post in and try to berate me.

If I didn't know better, I would think you were some whacked out chick I dated years ago. She had to be everywhere I was too.

I'll explain this again to you. I am married to my high school sweetheart. I have been for 24 years. I have no interest in you at all. Please go find another man to bother.

You live in Cali. Head into Frisco, as it is close to you. I am sure you'll be able to satisfy your "needs" there.

Good luck.

My Chilton Labor Guide calls them "Labor Hours", as does my Mitchell Program on the computer.

If the "book" calls for 2 "hours", the mech gets paid for 2 "hours". Not once in over 25 yrs have I ever heard of "Labor" being called a "Flag".

Here's a thought. Tell me exactly where I can find the term "Flag Hour" when referring to "Labor Hours". Greg tried to claim it's in a Google search. Too bad it doesn't show up during a search from their own site.

Maybe I'll tell my mechs I'll start paying them in Flags. They can't figure out what a "flag hour" is either.

I dont' know how anyone can claim to be in the automotive service industry and not know what a flag hour is... Seriously... A flag hour is the book hour value associated with a job.

i.e. if the book estimate for a job is 2 hours billed @ $30/hr the mechanic makes $60. Being paid by flag hours means that the mechanic get's paid for 2 hours regardless of how fast or slow he gets the job done.

Robert needs to clean his spit-valve before he blows his horn (and just so you don't tell me you've never heard of a spit-valve, it's a part of a brass instrument, not a car).

Putz.

Robert,

Once again here we are on another Just Brakes thread. Once again you maintain the lack of reason you have shown before.

Once again lets go over this......


You have consistantly said that the "Customer is always wrong". You defend Just Brakes constantly by saying that the consumer is responsible for having "common sense" and should know that $99 is not a viable brake job.

So....once again I will explain.....

NOT ALL CONSUMERS ARE CAR FREAKS, CAR MECHANICS, OR CAR EXPERTS. Not all are going to "know" what is fair, or decent when it comes to pricing. Its just NOT THEIR PLACE OF EXPERIENCE. Hell I know plenty of d**n doctors that are the best in THEIR FIELD. Yet they cant balance a checkbook if thier life depended on it.

The simple fact of the matter is that this shop advertises a price that they NEVER honor. What capacity the consumer has to realize if that is an honest deal or not is totally moot!

They advertise a price.....they never honor it.

Stop defending these crooks like this. I used plenty of examples with other industries that even YOU dont know about. Shall we go over the price of a simple blood test? (my area of experience) I bet you dont know! So that would make you an idiot like you have called others so many times eh? But NO! I DO understand that not EVERYONE knows what the basic cost of getting a simple panel run on them costs. Thats what I DO. I dont expect everyone on the planet to know as well. Just as you shouldnt about car repair.

NOT EVERYONE IS A FREAKING CAR MECHANIC ROBERT.

Now I'm sure you will take great offense at this and start badgering me all across this website like before. But I'm sorry, you just had to start bashing consumers again. So I just have to defend them. Its the purpose of this site....for the consumers.

Sometimes people have their brakes inspected just for the hell of it.. it's called PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE.
If it's been 10,000 miles since I looked at my brakes, I will inspect them myself. Just to make sure there is nothing abnormal.

I typed "flag hours" into Google. It came back with page after page of flags, and people selling flags, and histories about flags. Absolutely nothing in the first 5 pages about labor times.

"Oftentimes, these brake shops and muffler shops employ beginner mechanics who are not ASE certified..."

This implies that ASE mechs are vastly superior to those who don't bother taking the multiple guess tests. Ummm....nope, they're not. The majority of ASE mechs I have ever known make less than I ever did, and while they can recite chapter and verse from the repair manuals, they have no actual intuition or ability to think the problem through.

"Guess they don't use dem thar terms down in your neck of the woods. I doubt they called them flag hours when Jethro took his truck in for repair, either."

I guess they don't teach English up there in your neck of the woods. And no, they never called them flag hours when your cousin took his truck in for repair either.

To paraphrase another poster in these threads, if you have something substantial to add, please feel free.

Type "flag hours" in the search window and look at what appears. Lots of references to flag hours as it relates to the automotive repair business. Guess they don't use dem thar terms down in your neck of the woods. I doubt they called them flag hours when Jethro took his truck in for repair, either.

BTW, Jennifer never said all ASE certified mechanics who work at dealers were great. She even pointed out that a trusted mechanic was responsible for her car getting wrecked. It's quite possible that Jennifer works in the field, perhaps as some type of service writer. I'd respect her opinion before yours.

There are mechanics getting paid an hourly rate, commission from the ticket, flat rate, and a combination of the above. I have never heard of a "flag hour".

As for the theory that dealership mechanics are great because they are ASE certified, you just disproved that one by yourself Jennifer. Yours caused the wholesale destruction of your truck.

By the way, ALL repair shops hire beginners, including dealerships. We like to, because we want to train someone to do the job our way. The experienced mechs teach the beginners.

The $1300 price tag seems extremely steep. More than likely, you just needed new pads. While the second shop said everything was fine...why exactly did you go someplace and have your brakes checked? Nobody just wakes up and says "I'll go waste a few hours inspecting my truck". No, you heard or felt something when the brakes were applied, and went to the place that advertises the TOO LOW price of $99 for all 4 wheels.

Common sense tells you when something is TOO EXPENSIVE($1300), but why doesn't common sense tell you something is TOO CHEAP($99)?

d**k,

I hope you walked out of this place without giving them a single red penny because that tech knows that the bearings are sealed. He was straight up lying to you and hoping to make a fast buck.

Oftentimes, these brake shops and muffler shops employ beginner mechanics who are not ASE certified. Those guys, quite possibly, are paid on commission as opposed to flag hours they would get if they were employed at a dealership. The manufacturer has guidelines and technical bulletins defining how long a job should take and what it should pay the technician.

Even a trusted family member or friend can get you into hedgy territory. A friend (and master certified mechanic employed at a dealer whose name you'd probably recognize) recently did rear brakes on my totaled SUV. Why is my SUV totaled? He neglected to tighten all of the lugs on one of the rear wheels and I rolled it.

d**k,

I hope you walked out of this place without giving them a single red penny because that tech knows that the bearings are sealed. He was straight up lying to you and hoping to make a fast buck.

Oftentimes, these brake shops and muffler shops employ beginner mechanics who are not ASE certified. Those guys, quite possibly, are paid on commission as opposed to flag hours they would get if they were employed at a dealership. The manufacturer has guidelines and technical bulletins defining how long a job should take and what it should pay the technician.

Even a trusted family member or friend can get you into hedgy territory. A friend (and master certified mechanic employed at a dealer whose name you'd probably recognize) recently did rear brakes on my totaled SUV. Why is my SUV totaled? He neglected to tighten all of the lugs on one of the rear wheels and I rolled it.

To start off, I am not a mechanic and honestly I do not know much about cars or prices. But every location (even every employee at each location) do have their own opinions on what needs to be replaced and what does not at the time of inspection. Or maybe they just lied to you and want money. I do not know. I think the best thing to do is to go to a trusted friend or family member that would be able to tell you what really needs to be replaced and what doesn't.

To start off, I am not a mechanic and honestly I do not know much about cars or prices. But every location (even every employee at each location) do have their own opinions on what needs to be replaced and what does not at the time of inspection. Or maybe they just lied to you and want money. I do not know. I think the best thing to do is to go to a trusted friend or family member that would be able to tell you what really needs to be replaced and what doesn't.

To start off, I am not a mechanic and honestly I do not know much about cars or prices. But every location (even every employee at each location) do have their own opinions on what needs to be replaced and what does not at the time of inspection. Or maybe they just lied to you and want money. I do not know. I think the best thing to do is to go to a trusted friend or family member that would be able to tell you what really needs to be replaced and what doesn't.

To start off, I am not a mechanic and honestly I do not know much about cars or prices. But every location (even every employee at each location) do have their own opinions on what needs to be replaced and what does not at the time of inspection. Or maybe they just lied to you and want money. I do not know. I think the best thing to do is to go to a trusted friend or family member that would be able to tell you what really needs to be replaced and what doesn't.